Hardbopjazz Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 This past July I've gone to a few different shows. Andrew Hill a the Museum of Harlem, Lou Donaldson at the Jazz Standard, The Heath Brothers at the Village Vanguard and Greg Osby at the village Vanguard. All the shows were great, but they were all only about half filled. Last night at Vanguard, the second set for Greg Osby, there had to be a total 35 people. Is jazz really losing its following? NYC you would think it would be swinging at these clubs. How is live jazz doing where you live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Is jazz really losing its following? Is it doing any worse/better than usual? Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted July 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 (edited) Is jazz really losing its following? Is it doing any worse/better than usual? Guy I think worse. I go to live shows quite a lot. This summer it has been the thinnest in terms of audience. The jazz standard is a bit pricey, but the Vanguard and the studio museum of Harlem are more affordable. Andrew Hill was only 15 dollars and there were a good 20 seats open. I am planning on seeing Cedar Walton next and then Charles Toliver. Walton is at Dizzy's Club Coca Cola and Toliver is at the Iridium. I will check on the turn out for these. Maybe the state the US economy has something to do with it. People need the money for gas. But I've also went to a few Jazz Mobile shows which are free, and they too were not as full like in past years. Edited July 30, 2006 by Hardbopjazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Are we comparing summer events to summer events? Doesn't the city empty out this time of year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 (edited) I think the high prices at a lot of the NYC clubs are so prohibitive, with the cover charge and drinks it is hard to get through a set without dropping close to $50/person. Edited July 30, 2006 by skeith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montg Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 I live in a medium-sized midwest city and we have virtually no live jazz, at any time of the year. That's about as sorry as it gets. I wish some enterprising label or management group would organize a set of tours in college towns across the US--College kids are often dabblers in all sorts of music and if the price was right and the location was near campus, they'd turn out for jazz. That's one way to start re-building an audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted July 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Are we comparing summer events to summer events? Doesn't the city empty out this time of year? I comparing just this summer. So far it hasn't been a good draw for jazz. By the way Dan, Lou Donaldson is in the mail as of this morning, 2 copies. I still need to get the Stitt working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Never mind jazz; I live near a city with population of 170,000 and there is not a single deli where I can get a decent pastrami on rye sandwich. Not a single one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Like Chet Baker said when talking about the low demand for jazz in america..."The cultural level in the states is dismally low." And he said that a loooong time ago. Anyway, I was at the Vanguard last Monday and the first set was sold out, the second set was very full. Lonnie Smith had a pretty healthy house on the Sunday night before, especially for the second set. I couldn't even get in to see Kurt Rosenwinkel at the Fat Cat the same night I went to the VV. But, I know what you mean. I'm always surprised there aren't lines 'round the block considering what you're getting to see. That said, lots of the old timers are gone....maybe that's a big part of the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 I live in a medium-sized midwest city and we have virtually no live jazz, at any time of the year. That's about as sorry as it gets. I wish some enterprising label or management group would organize a set of tours in college towns across the US--College kids are often dabblers in all sorts of music and if the price was right and the location was near campus, they'd turn out for jazz. That's one way to start re-building an audience. That is a great idea. The audience won't grow from jazz clubs alone, it's way too expensive for a lot of people to go and enjoy a night out. NYC has it's problems because of high real estate prices, taxes and rents. Out of town venues have their problems bringing in name acts because of the high price of transportation and overhead, and they all suffer from less than inspired musical programing. All the above make club owners very paranoid and slow to build a audience for more than a handful of artists. I mean, who needs "Javon Jackson plays the music of Dexter Gordon"? I still love going to the Vanguard, but when Geoffrey Keezer was playing there with his trio earlier in the year playing a great set of his music, Lorraine was overheard telling him, "Why can't you just play Body and Soul?" Boy, I miss Max Gordon but I remember seeing Cecil there in the mid 70's several times and they only had a good house on the weekend. On Sunday, I was there with just a handful of people. That was at $6 a head and nobody pushed a drink on you then. I'm going to see Cedar at Dizzy's, which has a high quotiant of non-jazz listeners who happen to come by, but a beautiful place with wonderful sound, and Jeremy Pelt at the Vanguard. Both venues have a two drink minimum, by the way. I might also see David David Binney at the 55 Bar. Hardbop, since you live in NYC and have been around for a good while, I defer to your observation, and you are correct in the long run. If there isn't a audience in NYC, then the economic health of the music is in a very bad state indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Hell, I was at the Jazz Kitchen in Indy tonight and the place was over flowing with people. Although there are only a couple places to see good live jazz in Indy, this venue is packed more than not. m~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 I still love going to the Vanguard, but when Geoffrey Keezer was playing there with his trio earlier in the year playing a great set of his music, Lorraine was overheard telling him, "Why can't you just play Body and Soul?" And therein lies the entire situation, in a nutshell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 that is strange but i do respect what lorraine said she probably saw the bean machine play his soul off on that very same stage and now she has to put up with keezer--- to quote famous B3-ist Matthew Fisher as he told me backstage once- Geoff Keezer's playing is "just musical wankery [up and down fist motion]" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 MARCELLLO: are you saying nyc is so cool hot trendy girls go to Cedar Walton concerts just to chill and drink and socialize?? id like to see cedar get some repect over there but that still is the coolest thing ive ever heard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Here in the UK just about every two bit town or village this hot Summer is jumping on the bandwagon and starting up their "(Insert name of village here) Jazz Festival" as an accompaniment to the picnic/roast but whether or not you'll hear any great jazz seems to be a matter of chance/luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Lots of whining in this thread (? esp. from the east coast). We just finished the New Mexico Jazz Festival. Excellent crowds (up to 800 people) for the likes of McCoy Tyner Septet, Branford Marsalis Quartet, Arturo O'Farrill Afro-Latin Jazz Orchestra, Newport All-Stars. Maybe we're just not as jaded & more grateful. For a city of 65 thousand we're doing O.K.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeCity Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Sadly, I was out of town for all of the New Mexico Jazz Festival events! But I'm pretty thankful that we have some jazz presenters here in the desert; especially here in ABQ where we have the Outpost Performance Space. The guy who runs this non-profit (on purpose ) place is an avant garde saxophonist with very eclectic tastes. He books straight ahead, avant, performance art, all kinds of stuff. The venue holds about 200, theatre style, no talking, no smoking, no booze. It's also a great venue for us local guys to get a chance to do something a little more than the typical club/restaurant gigs of which there are a good amount here. But in keeping with the spirit of this thread, Yeah! Everything Sucks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 (edited) Not to question your success, but 800 people at a festival with McCoy Tyner, B Marsalis, ect. doesn't sound like that healthy of a state of jazz...? Also, "Jazz" is such a homogenous word for such a diversified subject. Say what you will about standards, but I heard Jerry Dodgion play "Body & Soul" at the VV last Monday Night (through the door as they were sold out the first set)...and imho it just doesn't get a whole let better. Other kinds of less accesable jazz might not be faring as well, but it never has I don't think. However, Avant guard gets much more hype and success in my town. The rock clubs and other spaces have done pretty well with folks like Ken Vandermark, Joe McPhee, ect. On the other hand, I've seen Tom Harrell and even Joshua Redman here play to basically small crowds. Edited July 30, 2006 by Soul Stream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeCity Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Not to question your success, but 800 people at a festival with McCoy Tyner, B Marsalis, ect. doesn't sound like that healthy of a state of jazz...? Just to be clear, this festival was a series of individual concerts over a two-week span. Those headliners (McCoy, Branford, O'Farrill etc.) each had their own night a theatre in Santa Fe that seats about 800. So, several sold-out (or almost) concerts. In addition, there were other shows connected with the festival, at the Outpost (in ABQ) and at an outdoor amphitheatre (also in ABQ) that seats up to 800. Yeah, it may not be Newport '58, but it's a great thing for our music community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 ...yeah, that's more like it. Sounds like a great production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 (edited) Who the hell is "the famous B3-ist Matthew Fisher"? I must be out of the loop. Jazz festivals can't be compared with the everyday health of the jazz business ( but they are great), because there is more of a support for them as a city-wide event. They are great for promoting the music and you are lucky that that such a small ( and hip) city like yours supports it. Edited July 30, 2006 by marcello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Weiss Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Our week at the Vanguard, July 18-23 with Joe Wilder was similarly "quiet." Yes it is July and many people go away, but many people visit too. Vanguard attendence has been at least 80% (my wild guess) foreign and American tourists for a long time now. However, the following Monday (when Soul Stream was there), the club was packed both sets. I mean FULL. I guess it's understandable that more people would rather hear a middle aged bigband than an 84 year old trumpet player. I've been in the Vanguard a number of times over the summer and, except for Mondays, it's been quiet overall. Don't know if this is just summer blahs or a trend. I remember the days in the eighties when the Vanguard was packed every night. Back then bands played three sets - 10:00, 11:30 and 1:00. Now even the third set on weekends has been phased out. That said, I'm counting on every one of you to help pack the club the week of October 24-29 when I bring in my group, World Series or no. If the Yankees or Mets make it in, I'm fuked! I'm in again tomorrow night with the bigband - will compare the attendence to last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 One city (Chicago), and only part of the scene, but the youngish (mostly under 35 -- musicians' age, that is) semi-avant garde scene that coalesesced around Vandermark in the early to mid'-'90s but that has IMO gone far far beyond him musicially and stylistically also seems to be in very good shape in terms of live music -- lots of good places to play, decent to very good crowds most nights, "payment" often comes from "donations at the door" and the like (for legal reasons, depending on whether the venue has an extertainment license), but I get the feeling that on most nights the band isn't dragged by what they end up with. The audience BTW consists for the most part of people who are (with the exception of a few old farts like me) of the same age and background as the players. To use a ghastly term, all of this seems to me to be synergistic. First, Chicago is a city where (right now) the people who like to play this music can find places that can afford to to live in that are in reasonable proximity to each other; thus rehearsals happen without much hassle. Likewise, some of the places to play are really nice -- in particular, a neighborhood bar called The Hungry Brain and an art gallery. Elastic, upstairs from a Chinese restaurant -- happily both these spots have fine acoustics. Second, the scene is genuinely communal and welcoming; players who would benefit from working with other simpatico players (people flow into town from places like Iowa, Nashville, Boston et al. on a semi-regular basis) find themselves working with those players sooner or later and tend to grow by leaps and bounds as a result -- typically, guys like cornetist Josh Berman, reedman Keefe Jackson, trombonist Jeb Bishop, drummer Frank Rosaly, cellist Fred Lonberg-Holm, vibist Jason Adasiewicz, bassists Anton Hatwich and Jason Roebke are in as many as four or more bands at the same time. Also, there's lots of writing going on. And the audiences listen. I suspect that the crucial factor here is aesthetic -- kinds of music are being made here that are sufficiently novel and good, and the players and audiencies agree on this. A version of the pleasure principle in action. And if all the other things I've mentioned don't necessarily follow from this, so far we've been lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randissimo Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Hell, I was at the Jazz Kitchen in Indy tonight and the place was over flowing with people. Although there are only a couple places to see good live jazz in Indy, this venue is packed more than not. m~ we wanna play there !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randissimo Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 (edited) Lots of whining in this thread (? esp. from the east coast). We just finished the New Mexico Jazz Festival. Excellent crowds (up to 800 people) for the likes of McCoy Tyner Septet, Branford Marsalis Quartet, Arturo O'Farrill Afro-Latin Jazz Orchestra, Newport All-Stars. Maybe we're just not as jaded & more grateful. For a city of 65 thousand we're doing O.K.. Any chance of getting organissimo into that festival with possibly a club hit somewhere next year? Edited July 30, 2006 by randissimo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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