NFL chat thread

[T.D.]

The AP newswire story had an interesting item:

Afterward [postgame], with the record crowd of 68,810 silenced and a terrific season wrecked, Tomlinson went after an unidentified Patriots player.

Did anyone see that incident? I missed it.

Poor Marty S...he might not be back next year. On Friday, the NY Post printed a funny line about the "Schottenheimerlich Maneuver".

[Chalupa]

The AP newswire story had an interesting item:

Afterward [postgame], with the record crowd of 68,810 silenced and a terrific season wrecked, Tomlinson went after an unidentified Patriots player.

Did anyone see that incident? I missed it.

Poor Marty S...he might not be back next year. On Friday, the NY Post printed a funny line about the "Schottenheimerlich Maneuver".

I did. He went after Hobbs. The TV guys said that he probably went after him because the Pats were celebrating on their home turf before the game was over.

[connoisseur series500]

LT got pissed because some Pat players were imitating the Shawn Merriman "lights out" dance.

[ghost of miles]

Trying not to follow this (although it's getting harder & harder, living in Indiana), but I know my brothers were really pulling for NE to win. Not only does that mean a home game for the Colts; it also means not having to face Tomlinson, with the feeling being that the Colts D would not be able to stop a primetime running back three games in a row.

[sheldonm]

....just returned back to Indy from the Bears/Seahawks game....here are a few photos.....f**king cold sitting out in Soldier Field today....glad to get home!

m~

[sheldonm]

...

[JSngry]

Who is "we", Mr. Probably Never Been To New England In His Life?

"We," and "us" refer to all who have followed our team for many years. "You" refers to Dallas Cowboy fans.

"Our" team? Dude, my team sucks, but I'm stuck with 'em by the curse of geo-loyalty.

I was a Raiders fan back in the 70s (hated the Landry/Schramm God's Robots with a purple passion), but not yet then having ever travelled west of Fort Worth, I never called them "we". And back when it was cool to be one, I used to get pissed at Cowboys fans who had never been south of Greenland calling the Cowboys "us". Too many people like to hitch on to a winner just to be on the winning side.

Now, if you can remember the Boston Patriots, games in Fenway, and the AFL on NBC, I can cut you some slack on the "we" business. Or, if you're not old enough, if you can give me, wothout looking it up, the uniform #s of Gino Cappelletti, Nick Buoniconti (yeah, he was a Pat before he was a Dolphin), and tell me who took Lou Saban's place when he went to Buffalo, then an "honorary we" is definitely yours. Otherwise, "my team" is good enough.

Oh, btw - tongue's firmly in cheek for all of the above, except for hating the 60s/70s Cowboys and about them sucking now. I did, and they do.

[sheldonm]

...the game winning field goal!

Edited January 15, 2007 by sheldonm

[Chalupa]

Trying not to follow this (although it's getting harder & harder, living in Indiana), but I know my brothers were really pulling for NE to win. Not only does that mean a home game for the Colts; it also means not having to face Tomlinson, with the feeling being that the Colts D would not be able to stop a primetime running back three games in a row.

I can't believe you would rather face NE than SD. The Pats absolutely OWN you guys when it comes to the playoffs and they are playing their best ball right now.

[JSngry]

I hate the Pats, obviously, but if I was to bet on them vs the Colts, it's a no-brainer. Pats all the way.

The fuckers.

[Chalupa]

Why I think the Iggles will never win a SB under the current management...

Posted on Sun, Jan. 14, 2007

Incites | Banner making no points with fans

By Don McKee

Inquirer Columnist

Whatever Joe Banner studied at Denison University, it probably wasn't public relations.

The Eagles president committed an incredible faux pas last week and demonstrated yet again why this city - which worships the franchise - is reluctant to embrace its front office.

In a week in which the Eagles were basking in the glow of the public adulation that accompanies a Super Bowl run, Banner chose to step on the celebration. Worse, he stepped on the celebrants.

In an article about Jeffrey Lurie in The Inquirer on Thursday, Banner complained about the city's lack of appreciation for the owner. He also said the city was lucky to still have a team, despite 70-plus years of unqualified support.

"I don't think there's another owner who would have kept this team in Philadelphia for the economic deal we got on our stadium," Banner told The Inquirer's Bob Brookover.

Banner also made the stunning admission that the Eagles had received offers from other cities - and implied he would have moved the team.

Banner (and Lurie) clearly don't get it. The reason fans don't embrace them is their own words. The fans not only embrace the Eagles - they positively smother them with affection. A good number of fans live their lives through the Eagles.

The whole area was bubbling with good-natured, post-holiday Eagles sentiment, and the natural pessimism that grips this city of losers had moved to the back burner. Fans were enthralled with the team and had rallied behind Jeff Garcia as their newly minted hero.

And what did they get in return? An acid reminder that they didn't ante up enough pocket money for a multimillionaire.

Edited January 15, 2007 by Chalupa

[Shawn]

Well, since neither team that I was rooting for won today...it puts me in the depressing situation of having to root for the fucking Colts. Just because the Pats annoy me to no end...

Come on N.O., knock the overrated Bears out of the playoffs....

Edited January 15, 2007 by Shawn

[connoisseur series500]

Well, since neither team that I was rooting for won today...it puts me in the depressing situation of having to root for the fucking Colts. Just because the Pats annoy me to no end...

Come on N.O., knock the overrated Bears out of the playoffs....

Will someone please explain to me how the Pats could annoy anybody? Well, they've won so much over the last 5 years or so--perhaps the justification; but here you have a team whose players are consistently overlooked for the Pro Bowl, and who never build up huge personal stats. It's a great team.

To Sangry:

I embraced the Pats in 1976 (If I remember correctly) when Plunkett was qb; Russ Francis was te; Sam Bam was the rb; John Hannah and Grey were olinemen. I seem to remember a big dt named Adams. We were living in New Jersey at the time, and we really didn't have a team besides maybe the Eagles that would be considered "local." I didn't become a huge NFL fan till later, but they've always been my favorite team. Never had any other. I was 16 years old in 1976, and it took me a few years to begin to appreciate the NFL. Chuck Fairbanks was the coach, and I remember we got screwed in the playoffs on a bullshit penalty which kept the Raiders alive when we had them stone beat. Nojjy is too young to know about that! Raiders went on to the AFC championship.

I couldn't watch NFL from 1984 to 1995 when I was in Asia; so I lost track of all the players.

Of course, my love of the team really mushroomed under the Parcells, then Bill Belichick eras. I was really hurt when Parcells left and Curtis Martin followed the following year. We never had another good rb until we traded for Corey Dillon. It was a long draught. Picking up Tom Brady in the 6th round was some heck of a steal. Great qbs are hard to identify sometimes in college.

There is NO DOUBT that the Pats are not as good as they were when they won two straight super bowls, but they've still got BB, Brady and the best Front 7 in football.

Edited January 15, 2007 by connoisseur series500

[Noj]

Two words: tuck rule.

Nah, they're a hell of a team with clutch leaders. Brady had an awful game, but when given a chance for redemption dug down and found a way to make plays today. Hell, I was rooting for the *ack* Chargers, but really I don't like them any more than the Pats.

[JSngry]

Will someone please explain to me how the Pats could annoy anybody? Well, they've won so much over the last 5 years or so--perhaps the justification; but here you have a team whose players are consistently overlooked for the Pro Bowl, and who never build up huge personal stats. It's a great team.

To Sangry:

I embraced the Pats in 1976 (If I remember correctly) when Plunkett was qb; Russ Francis was te; Sam Bam was the rb; John Hannah and Grey were olinemen. I seem to remember a big dt named Adams. We were living in New Jersey at the time, and we really didn't have a team besides maybe the Eagles that would be considered "local." I didn't become a huge NFL fan till later, but they've always been my favorite team. Never had any other. I was 16 years old in 1976, and it took me a few years to begin to appreciate the NFL. Chuck Fairbanks was the coach, and I remember we got screwed in the playoffs on a bullshit penalty which kept the Raiders alive when we had them stone beat. Nojjy is too young to know about that! Raiders went on to the AFC championship.

I couldn't watch NFL from 1984 to 1995 when I was in Asia; so I lost track of all the players.

Of course, my love of the team really mushroomed under the Parcells, then Bill Belichick eras. I was really hurt when Parcells left and Curtis Martin followed the following year. We never had another good rb until we traded for Corey Dillon. It was a long draught. Picking up Tom Brady in the 6th round was some heck of a steal. Great qbs are hard to identify sometimes in college.

There is NO DOUBT that the Pats are not as good as they were when they won two straight super bowls, but they've still got BB, Brady and the best Front 7 in football.

The Pats are annoying today for the same reason the Cowboys were annoying back in the 70s. Cold, mechanical, soul-less (but not as bad as the CBoyss were - nobody could be that soul-less!) robots who just win win win. And win.

They annoy the shit outta me (Brady in particular, who makes Staubach seem like Namath in terms of "personality"), but I give'em full props. They're a disciplined focused team, and they deserved to beat SD today. The Chargers were anything but disciplined and focused. What was up w/that bullshit unsportsmanlike thing that kept the Pats drive alive? And the fumble on the punt return? Your guys don't do shit like that, and when the other team does, they invariably find a way to capitalize on it. That's the mark of a true champion. I just wish they were more...fun. Hell, even the Boys gave us momentary freakshows like Duane "If It's The Ultimate Game, Why Do They Play It Next Year?: Thomas and Hollywood "Things Go Better With Coke" Henderson to break the monotony.

But they do win, and that's the ultimate object of the game, isn't it. Can't fault that. I just like a little more, uh, "human interest" with my sports. Boring efficiency I get enough of the other six days of the week. That's probably the way a lot of other people feel too, I suspect, and that's probably why the vibe.

But as far as your history w/the team goes, hey, I was just pulling your leg on that. Really, I was. Apologies if I led you to believe otherwise. Although, if you want to have some fun, go back and check out the old AFL, of which the Boston Patriots were a part. Talk about characters, hell, the whole league was one giant character! But there were some great players in that mix, including a personal favorite, Lance Alworth (long-time Charger, finished up as a Cowboy), who still remains the singlemost graceful wide receiver I've ever seen. They called him "Bambi", and it was not a dig. The cat was an artist. What prime Ozzie Smith was to shortstops, Lance Alworth was to wide recievers. Closest I've seen on a consistent basis since has been prime Wayne Chrebet, but even he doesn't top Alworth in my book.

People who aren't old enough to remember the AFL don't know what they missed, much less understand what a big deal the first 5 or so super bowls really were. When Namath's Jets beat the Colts in SB III, it was more than a little upsetting, truly upsetting, to a helluva lot of people (and when the Colts were designated to become AFC once the merger became official, a lot of people were both distraught and livid!). The AFL was to the NFL what RFK was to Nixon, and in the climate of the times, people took that shit seriously! Everybody thought for sure that Joe Kapp & the Vikings would right the grievious wrong against the Chiefs in SB IV, but Hank Stram had a new little twist called "bump & run" that made it clear that the NFL was waaaay behind the curve, and that the AFL was the future. Two years in a row - the world was coming to an end!

And then the merger took full effect, things settled down, and here we are. Today it's just NFC vs AFC. Not the same thing. Not even the same thing.

[chris olivarez]

Geaux Saints!!!!

[connoisseur series500]

The Pats are annoying today for the same reason the Cowboys were annoying back in the 70s. Cold, mechanical, soul-less (but not as bad as the CBoyss were - nobody could be that soul-less!) robots who just win win win. And win.

They annoy the shit outta me (Brady in particular, who makes Staubach seem like Namath in terms of "personality"), but I give'em full props. They're a disciplined focused team, and they deserved to beat SD today.

I never considered this before...really.

I've got to admit that the Pats are definitely rather colorless. It doesn't help that Bill Belichick is totally ruthless and devoid of sentiment when it comes to cutting players and former heroes. I don't think there has ever been another team as ruthless in that department. On the other hand, you've got to like their team-first approach. The ideal team in the NFL embodies the concept of teamwork. It isn't about individuals as in the NBA. Belichick is the master of this. He shuffles players in and out; while the individual players don't get the choice to pad up their stats. Everybody gets their "turn." This approach also helps when the injury bug hits, as the backups have all had some kind of game experience.

But Brady as dull as Staubach? That's rough. Staubach always seemed cruelly efficient and ruthless in a quiet way. Brady is like that a bit, but he also smiles a bunch and has celebrity girlfriends. He's more human than Roger ever was imo.

[GA Russell]

Now, if you can remember the Boston Patriots, games in Fenway, and the AFL on NBC, I can cut you some slack on the "we" business. Or, if you're not old enough, if you can give me, wothout looking it up, the uniform #s of Gino Cappelletti, Nick Buoniconti (yeah, he was a Pat before he was a Dolphin), and tell me who took Lou Saban's place when he went to Buffalo, then an "honorary we" is definitely yours. Otherwise, "my team" is good enough.

I was a Boston Patriot fan when I was a boy. I remember the AFL on ABC from 1960 to 1964. I remember when Lou Saban was replaced by Mike Holovak. Gino and Babe P were my favorite players. In 1988 I worked just down the hall from Tommy Addison!!!

And I remember when the Chargers' QB was Jackie Kemp.

[Shawn]

Jim, another perfect explanation. I feel that way exactly.

The Giants would be the example of a team with TOO MUCH personality right now, to the detriment of the team.

Near the end of the season I found myself rooting for the Titans, you WANTED those guys to win because nobody said they could at the beginning of the season. At this point the Saints are the easiest team to root for, they seem to DESERVE a title. There's a fun vibe to that team.

The Chargers beat themselves yesterday, no excuse for a 14-2 team to put in a slapdash performance like that one.

[JSngry]

Brady is like that a bit, but he also smiles a bunch and has celebrity girlfriends. He's more human than Roger ever was imo.

Well see, that's the problem right there - he's got the personality vibe of Steve Young & the lifestyle accoutrements of Joe Namath. That's a recipie for annoyance if ever there was one!

Yeah, Staubach was pretty stiff, but you gotta remember that he had served four yeas in the Navy before coming to the NFL. He was already "old" before he hit the league. Then again, you'd expect more from a sailor...

GA Russell remembers the AFL on ABC? Wow, dude, you're old!

Speaking of teams w/"charachter", a few years ago I saw a documentary about the old Chicago Cardinals. Talk about a rag-tag bunch of players of varying skills who hit the field ready to party! The NFL would not let a team like that exist today!

Most interesting team in NFL history (that I know of) has to be the original Dallas Texans (no not the AFL team). http://www.footballresearch.com/articles/f...?topic=dallas52 This is the team that would become the Baltimore Colts!

Do we have any real old-timers here who remember the All-American Football Conference? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-America_Football_Conference The 49ers & Browns started life here, as did a Baltimore Colts franchise that folded, only to be reborn from the afore-mentioned Texans.

Most of us only know the NFL as a mega-successful corporate juggernaut, but the truth is that for many decades, it, and pro football in general were a decidedly second-tier enterprise. Baseball ruled the roost, and pro football was seen as a seedy alternative to wholesome college ball. The AAFC & the AFL both have fascinating histories, as does the pre-1958 NFL (I say 1958 because that's generally considered to be the turning point of when the tide of public perception began to turn, after the dramatic sudden-death Giants Colts championship game that "bled over" into NBC's prime time schedule).

For efficiency, skills, and sheer athleticism, give me today's game. But for character and "color", the old guys win hands-down, especially those from the time when the game really wasn't all that popular. That was a whole 'nother game, time, and place!

Edited January 15, 2007 by JSngry

[T.D.]

Remember the (semi-old) NFL Films feature that focused on Hank Stram on the sidelines during the Chiefs' Super Bowl rout of the Vikings? It was hilarious. Hank absolutely knew he had it totally wired, and was strutting up and down the sideline like he owned the world. I think that was the last pre-merger SB.

I never followed basketball as closely as other sports, but I found the ABA-NBA cultural clash more pronounced than the AFL-NFL one. And (IIRC) the AFL was mostly backed by Lamar Hunt who, though a maverick in some sense, I can't really view as "anti-establishment"...

Edited January 15, 2007 by T.D.

[Shawn]

"Keep matriculating the ball down the field boys...."

[JSngry]

I never followed basketball as closely as other sports, but I found the ABA-NBA cultural clash more pronounced than the AFL-NFL one. And (IIRC) the AFL was mostly backed by Lamar Hunt who, though a maverick in some sense, I can't really view as "anti-establishment"...

Agree that the ABA-NBA cultural clash was more pronounced, but I gotta say that the AFL-NFL clash seemed more pronounced because of the timing. The 70s were already accustomed to such things, but in the 60s, it was like, well... the 60s.

And yeah, the AFL had significant backing from Hunt, but he was mostly a rich guy who wouldn't take no for an answer and fell into "renegade" status almost by default). Then again, He wasn't the "spiritual leader" of the thing. I think for that, you gotta look at Al Davis (if you only know him as today's eccentric old coot, you don't know the real Al Davis...) & Sonny Werblin (whose signing of Namath was in many ways the "shot heard 'round the world" that ultimately led to the NFL figuring it was better to assimilate these renegades than it ws to try & run them out of business), neither of whom were charter owners, but both of whom really set the tone for the league's attitude.

Also of note (and someting that I distinctly remember having brought to my attention by many people as a kid growing up in a racist culture) is that the AFL was definitely a "blacker" league. Seems like the NFL, although integrated, didn't pursue black talent nearly to the degree that the AFL did. As acollector of foootball cards back then, the NFL players always looked "cleaner" - and whiter. The AFL players were kinda wild looking a lot of times, and ther were a lot more black players in the mix. In the 60s, that was something that called attention to itself.

We take so much of today's pro sports dynamics for granted that it's easy to forget (or to never know) that things weren't always like this. Everything's so controlled and uniform (the notion of planned "parity" is one that I still struggle with, although there's no denying that as a a "business plan" it's hard to argue with) that the idea of rival leagues who really were rivals, as in enemies at all levels (I remember that when the merger was first announced, the earliest prelinary report had the Cowboys moving to the AFL/AFC. I saw grown men curse and cry about that. Seriously!) may be hard to grasp. But it was real, and it was something that you don't forget if you were involved in it, even as a fan.

Sorry to throw the thread off into historyland but hell, we spend so much time talking about old music, what can it hurt to talk about old football every now & then? And if somebody pops in & tells me that they actuallu saw Don Hutson play, hey - they'll be my hero for life!

[sheldonm]

Trying not to follow this (although it's getting harder & harder, living in Indiana), but I know my brothers were really pulling for NE to win. Not only does that mean a home game for the Colts; it also means not having to face Tomlinson, with the feeling being that the Colts D would not be able to stop a primetime running back three games in a row.

I can't believe you would rather face NE than SD. The Pats absolutely OWNED you guys when it comes to the playoffs and they are playing their best ball right now.

I'm also happy to see the Pats win vs. San Diego and I don't like the Pats.....looking forward to a rematch of the Pats/Colts.....finally on the Colt's turf (so to speak).....before this year, I was beginning to wonder if we would ever play here! Good to have Bob Sander's back and the very good D they have shown the past couple weeks. Colts are perfect at home this year and I hope they will be after next week. Looking forward to being at the game and cheering them on!!!

m~

[Soulstation1]

anyone see that hit reggie bush took at the start of the NO / Philly game?

he was crawlin' off the field