Jim Dye Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 (edited) It's time lose the personal insults. Even though Politics has its own separate forum, it still is a part of the board as a whole. It does spill over to the other forums. Is it too much to ask to be civil to one another? Can we not disagree without calling one another vile, or sick, or a fat fuck or an idiot or...you get the idea. It's tired. It takes away from the positive aspects of the board. I don't think that any one of us would talk to someone in person the way we do here in cyberspace no matter how much we disagree with them. My 2 cents Edited August 20, 2003 by Jim Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted August 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 (edited) Should we structure the forum rules to coincide with the etiquette of civil discourse? By which I mean no name-calling, insults, or personal attacks? Is this really such a bad thing to expect from people?? I mean, I don't think anyone has suggested anything close to censoring language. I mean, what the fuck?? (Just testing. ) How about we set the threshold pretty high, like 10 personal attacks (as determined by the judge, jury, and executioner himself, b3-er), and if you get any more than that - you're kicked out of just the Political forum for 2 weeks. Then after those two weeks, you can get let back into "Politics", and then with only 3 more personal attacks - you're out for a whole 2 months. I'm throwing around some pretty big numbers here - I mean "10" is quite a lot of personal attacks for someone to play with, before they get the boot. And getting the boot (initially, at least) would only be temporary. ( And heck, with thresholds like that - you could still call people "fat fucks" every now and then, without any real loss of privileges. ) Or anyway, something like that. But having some kind of systematic process in place would give b3-er a chance to apply some sense of fair justice to situations like this, where otherwise he would simply have to rely on his gut instinct. Edited August 20, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfricaBrass Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Since I can't play politics like the big boys, maybe there could be a politics lite forum with rules for those of us who just want to shoot the bull. I learned to stay out of the politics forum, though I think that it's important that B3-er has created a board free of censorship. I can't think of any other forum out there that treats its' members with so much respect. :rsmile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted August 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Since I can't play politics like the big boys, maybe there could be a politics lite forum with rules for those of us who just want to shoot the bull. I learned to stay out of the politics forum, though I think that it's important that B3-er has created a board free of censorship. I can't think of any other forum out there that treats its' members with so much respect. :rsmile: Agree with you on both counts, ABrass, 100%. Maybe it'd be nice to have a "Politics" forum, and a "Current Events" forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfricaBrass Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Yeah Rooster, It would be cool to just be able to talk without getting into our personal agendas. That political forum is like a bear trap - OUCH! Actually, I would like the political forums a lot more if we ran them through the Snoop Dogg Shizzolator. I'd be so entertained by the shizz that I wouldn't care what was being said. :rsmile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 If only we had software sophisticated enough, what we need is an "Inferno" forum, and any posts bad enough could automatically be diverted there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfricaBrass Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 If only we had software sophisticated enough, what we need is an "Inferno" forum, and any posts bad enough could automatically be diverted there... Then we'd also finally have a place to talk about Kenny G and muzak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEK Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 I think that there might be a conflict between being a self-identified "moderate" and living in this world of perpetual conflict where, if one chooses a side/position/stance, for whatever reason, one can quickly find that they are seen as marginalized, polarized or polarizing. "One man's ceiling is another man's floor", etc. On Israeli-Palestinian issues, for example, I have relatives who are Israelis, and my mother is a Zionist. So, for example, nothing GregM says about the Mideast surprises or confounds me. I could probably construct (and, consequently, often deconstruct) many of his posts. I also have several Palestinian-American friends and acquaintances; so from their perspectives, for example, I am also sensitive to Israeli injustices/violations as well as various Palestinian biases. I don't know where one can go to discuss politics and controversial issues where there wouldn't be expressions of frustration, political posturing, baiting, goading, etc.. Dispassionate reason seems to usually be an oxymoron concerning these matters. If you could somehow separate people by ideology/point of view and segregate them into their own threads, I think that, most often, the amount of reasoned discussion would actually decrease. Consequently, I don't mind things as they are in this forum. This is not an academic forum filled with area specialists. The very few professional political operatives that participate here (and I don't think that Johnny or GregM are among them) perhaps engage in a bit of projection or party-line spinning concerning the motives and backers of their opponents, but that's usually easy to spot. I expect that, among people who have an interest in the passionate music that is jazz, passions might extend into other human concerns in various, sometimes-radical ways. As a practical matter, people could sometimes maybe remember to focus more on the issues being discussed and try to refrain a bit from personal attacks of other board members (One can learn from Monty Python, for example, the difference between argument and abuse). There's enough heat in the social/political kitchen without adding flames. Also I appreciate most of the articles posted here as food for thought and potential discussion. One always has the option of avoiding controversial forums and threads and the posts of those who one finds distasteful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Is it too much to ask to be civil to one another? Can we not disagree without calling one another vile, or sick, or a fat fuck or an idiot or...you get the idea. No, and Yes. I think the majority of the posters are civil, however this may not be true with the majority of the posts. When you start seeing things like fat fuck, idiot, etc.etc.etc., it is unfortunate, but often these comments are retracted. (I said often, not always) I just hate to see a development of new rules here, and would rather everyone make an effort to improve civility on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 ...and would rather everyone make an effort to improve civility on their own. Yeah, that would be nice, but is it realistic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEK Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 I just hate to see a development of new rules here, and would rather everyone make an effort to improve civility on their own. I wholeheartedly agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed S Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Disappointing. The inevitable spillover is occurring. How unfortunate for this board. Actually, I think the board did rather well with politics until June 21, 2003. Not that it matters to most, (though it matters to me), but the board has become less and less of an attraction lately. Less posting, less visits and more time at AAJ, where the root of the problem has not yet taken hold. It's only a matter of time before those masturbatory harangues become part of the scene there. Too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Yeah, that would be nice, but is it realistic? Who the fuck are you talking to jackass? Of course it is! Seriously Mark, I don't know for sure. I like to think it is, since I don't really believe an overwhelming amount of un-civility exists now. Some need to do a better job of avoiding the conflicts, by not provoking, or getting sucked into it. No sense in posting just to try and get a rise out of others, you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Disappointing. The inevitable spillover is occurring. How unfortunate for this board. Actually, I think the board did rather well with politics until June 21, 2003. Not that it matters to most, (though it matters to me), but the board has become less and less of an attraction lately. Less posting, less visits and more time at AAJ, where the root of the problem has not yet taken hold. It's only a matter of time before those masturbatory harangues become part of the scene there. Too bad. Guess who joined on June 22, 2003... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted August 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 I just hate to see a development of new rules here, and would rather everyone make an effort to improve civility on their own. I wholeheartedly agree. I totally agree (really I do!!), but when's that gonna happen?? When??? Somebody tell me there's any kind of real chance that the people we're talking about here (not gonna name names), are ever gonna change their behavior - without some threat of real consequences for their actions. I mean, set the bar really high ---- but as it exists now, there is no bar (or nearly none). And in my opinion, a very small handful of blowhards are sometimes making it impossible for most of us to participate in any kind of reasonable discussion. (Note, I said "sometimes" - I'm not suggesting the sky is falling.) I'm totally for free-speech, 100% - but this isn't a truly "public" forum, and frankly b3-er has the right to handle things however he likes, whether we like it not. He's done such a great job in being hands-off in nearly everything, except when truly necessary --- that I trust that he's capable of implementing fair standards with reasonable expectations of behavior, and a fairly high threshold (number) of offences necessary before any kind of action is taken. And the fact that he can presumably ban someone from one particular forum is particularly good, in so much as this kind of shit rarely happens anywhere but in the politics forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 RT, B3-er can ban people now if he wanted to. I mean, we all are subject to being banned every day, no? I think what you will find is people testing the water so to speak. Calling another a fat fuck, just to see what happens. And what does happen if one person is warned for calling another a fat fuck, but the other is not warned for calling he/she a dickhead in return? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed S Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Well I had the misfortune of reading the thread that inspired this one. I felt like crying when I saw those photos. The brutality was overwhelming. Rooster, I'm 100% in sympathy with your feelings here. I wish that there was a way to wipe the slate clean and start over. Don't worry about who did what to whom, forgive the past transgressions, and move forward for the betterment of all. Regrettably, I don't think it's ever going to be possible. That thread tells me that. The only difference is that the adversaries don't have guns. What a friggin' mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted August 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 ...since I don't really believe an overwhelming amount of un-civility exists now. Not on the board in general, not by a long shot. But in a disturbing number of "Political" threads, quite a few had devolved into some pretty serious knockdown drag out fights, which have often gotten very personal. I would agree that things have gotten worse since Greg joined (sorry Greg, that's the way I see it). BUT, it takes two to tango, and more than two are tangoing (sp?) with Greg - and sometimes tangoing with each other as well. I'm not saying we all need to suddenly be PC about everything. (Gack!!!) But man, some of the more heated threads have really gone way too far. For instance, check out where the thread I originally referenced has gone, just since I started this thread??? Link: Suicide Bomber Kills 20 on Israeli Bus, Let's blame Bush here as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Frankly, we probably should have had this discussion before the problem arrived. I mean occurred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed S Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 No, it arrived. Or maybe invaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 RT, I've been keeping tracks of that thread, and yes it is bad news. A clear cut case of one that went bad for sure, but like the others it can and will go away on it's own. If people want the thread to end, they will cease posting on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Dye Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Absolutely out of control in that thread. I'm outta here until things calm down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted August 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 (edited) Absolutely out of control in that thread. I'm outta here until things calm down. I was just about to post this here, from the other thread. Just an example of how the Political threads can sometimes have an effect on the board as a whole. Food for thought. You have gone too far here. One upping each other by posting progressively more and more gruesome pictures. Wow, if you haven't hit rock bottom here, I don't know want to know what is next. Fuck it. I'm out of here until things have calmed down. Disgusting. Edited August 20, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Isn't this usually about when mnytime would jump in with a surgery gone bad story, or tell us again about the "Thrilla in Manila?" Sorry, I needed a laugh. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GregM Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Hmmm. Nuclear? Rooster, I had people posting insults about me before I even got here--which is why I came here. I was linked from another board. You can probably understand why it would bother someone to have lies and insults being said about them behind their back. If you were so interested in having a clean house before I arrived, I never would have arrived. More to the point, if Johnny and Chris, Mark and others would refrain from insulting me, I would not hurl insults. I don't initiate that crap, but I don't back down from it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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