relyles Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) In an interview on Willard Jenkins' blog, The Independent Ear, Robin Kelly states While I do write about serious music, I do so as an historian rather than a critic.I don’t write reviews of shows or recordings, ... That statement suggests to me that his primary goal in writing about music is not necessarily to provide an in depth analysis of the music. Does the above perspective impact any of the thoughts expressed so far? Edited October 1, 2009 by relyles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 well, since it's on Willard Jenkins' blog, I would ignore it - ******* ******personal dislike. Please ignore post. Or see Cliff Englewood for commentary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 In case anyone wonders why I'm not contributing to this discussion for a while, I'll be out of town for a while. In case any doesn't wonder ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Homeland Security mission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umum_cypher Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 In an interview on Willard Jenkins' blog, The Independent Ear, Robin Kelly states While I do write about serious music, I do so as an historian rather than a critic.I don’t write reviews of shows or recordings, ... That statement suggests to me that his primary goal in writing about music is not necessarily to provide an in depth analysis of the music. Does the above perspective impact any of the thoughts expressed so far? It depends what you mean by 'an in-depth analysis of the music', doesn't it. The quote suggests to me (not unexpectedly) that it won't be a biog in the style of 'track 3 has an excoriating trumpet solo by X, followed in Y's piano solo by an amusing quotation of I Dream of Jeannie' - thank God - or else in the style of 'in bar 32, Z's characteristic altered dominant substitution is not anticipated in A's accompaniment, which resorts again to the b9 chord' ... but neither of those, the first style especially, necessarily result in in-depth analysis. In-depth description, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) Maybe it is best to ignore my stated impression regarding in depth analysis and instead focus on whether Kelly's confessed perspective as a historian rather than a critic impacts expectations or standards? Edited October 1, 2009 by relyles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umum_cypher Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Maybe it is best to ignore my stated impression regarding in depth analysis and instead focus on whether Kelly's confessed perspective as a historian rather than a critic impacts expectations or standards? Well, the dividing line between historian and critic in jazz is and always has been extremely thin ... Monk has been on the receiving end of plenty of 'critical'/journalistic writing, inc. the available biogs, but not much of what I suppose you could think of as a more historical appraisal, if that means anything. I suppose I'd put my feelings like this: I would rather read a Monk biog by Kelley than by, say, Martin Williams, critic's critic, by a factor of about a thousand. And by Whitney Balliett, a million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 actually, I think Martin would have done a nice job - certainly his musical analysis was about 100 times more astute than Kelley's - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 actually, I think Martin would have done a nice job - certainly his musical analysis was about 100 times more astute than Kelley's - And that raises something I have been thinking about recently as a result of this discussion. How important is the "musical analysis" to anyone other than musicians? Maybe its a matter of the difference between analysis and desciption as hinted at earlier. In the limited CD reviews I attempted for a print publication, I acknowledged that I am not qualified to do any level of analysis of the music. Instead, my intended audience when writing was non musicians and I therefore attempted to "describe" the music in a manner that would give the potential listener some idea what to expect. In a work potentially as important as this Monk bio, can it be a valid document without a significant emphasis on musical analysis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) yes yes no, maybe and yes and then no. Because there's musical analysis and there's musical analysis - Williams, essentially a non-musician, knew how to depict music in a clear and smart laymen's language (though the best at this that I have read, and I am not just saying this because he's my friend, is our own Larry Kart). that's how you do it - also see my own project, Devilin Tune, as I believe I show therein how you can be technical without really being technical, and how you can be historical without being schematic and doctrinaire. it really can be done. There's no mystery to it, and I don't think the issue is real complicated (unless we want to get academic about it). Edited October 1, 2009 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Brown Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Why don't all of you wait until you've had a chance to read the book. What's the point of wasting time pre-judging it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Why don't all of you wait until you've had a chance to read the book. What's the point of wasting time pre-judging it? I agree, I'm looking forward to reading an on line review from someone who's actually read it. I'd like to read it myself - soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 not a bad idea. but we're just discussing some larger theoretical issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Why don't all of you wait until you've had a chance to read the book. What's the point of wasting time pre-judging it? I agree, I'm looking forward to reading an on line review from someone who's actually read it. I'd like to read it myself - soon. There are a couple of brief reviews other than the musician comments cited earlier on the official website. Monk Reviews I did preorder a copy and look forward to reading it for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Thanks, I missed those. I guess in the coming weeks we'll see others, maybe even ones that are more critical. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umum_cypher Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 not a bad idea. but we're just discussing some larger theoretical issues. Yes, I think I'm defending a theoretical version of what academic jazz studies could be. I'm not sure I'd go into bat as much for the actuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Yeah, if it came to that, I'd start looking fro Rusty Staub... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 looks like Kelley is doing a talk at Columbia U on the night of October 13 - luckily I'll be in NYC that night - will see if I can get uptown - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Thanks, I missed those. I guess in the coming weeks we'll see others, maybe even ones that are more critical. or maybe a review that tells us some new facts from the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 The book arrived on my desk this afternoon. Now all I have to decide is which of the several books I recently purchased to read first. Yesterday John Sved's Sun Ra bio arrived. Recently I also received Ted Gioia's, West Coast Jazz, and Steve Isoardi's The Dark Tree: Jazz and the Community Arts in Los Angeles , has been in a pile next to my bed for a while to get through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) just called the local Border's and they're holding a copy for me - will report back, too (though I refuse to read the book until he tells me what the D and the G stand for) - Edited October 6, 2009 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umum_cypher Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 The book arrived on my desk this afternoon. Now all I have to decide is which of the several books I recently purchased to read first. Yesterday John Sved's Sun Ra bio arrived. Recently I also received Ted Gioia's, West Coast Jazz, and Steve Isoardi's The Dark Tree: Jazz and the Community Arts in Los Angeles , has been in a pile next to my bed for a while to get through. Oh man! Those have been out for years. This is a news item, and the news must get through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 just brought my copy home - has a very nice type face - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umum_cypher Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 just brought my copy home - has a very nice type face - That's what I'm talking about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) so, I read about 1/3 of the book last night - excellent work, non-doctrinaire (surprisingly, considering some of the people he mentions in the acknowledgments), and a very insightful bio. I like it. And it's well-written, to boot. Highly recommended. Will be the standard for years to come. (hoping that last one ends up on the book jacket; I could use the publicity) - Edited October 7, 2009 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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