Stella by Starlight

[AllenLowe]

let's not forget the bovine version -

[Larry Kart]

"Bela By Barlight" (on an album by The Mastersounds)

[Ted O'Reilly]

"Bela By Barlight" (on an album by The Mastersounds)

There was this Bella, who by barlight at closing time looked pretty good...

[RDK]

let's not forget the bovine version -

The Bovine Version - now there's a band name!

[Ted O'Reilly]

Miles recorded this at the same May '58 session where he first recorded On Green Dolphin Street. Both of course then became jazz standards but was he the first to do jazz versions of them? Did Ahmad Jamal do them first? If they were the first jazz versions where did Miles hear them?

IIRC Red Garland often introduced obscure songs to the group but he wasn't present at this session.

(And they're both themes from movies.)

I think Bird did a version in '52 or there-abouts.

You're right. With strings in '52.

I don't have it at hand, but I think Claude Thornhill's band did it on a transcription (Gil Evans arrangement?) in about 1946 or 1947.

[Don Brown]

Jeeziz, O'Reilly's right. The first 'jazz' interpretation of Stella by Starlight was by the Claude Thornhill orchestra. It was a Lang-Worth transcription recorded in Liederkranz Hall in New York City on November 18, 1946.

[Mark Stryker]

If you wanna freak yourself out, make the first version you lean the changes from be the Miles/George/HerbieRonTony band's version. From either Four And More or My Funny Valentine, I forget which. Probably the latter, if memory serves, as it occasionally still does...

Like the man said - if you live, you'll be HIIIIIGH!!!!

Amen. For me this is the benchmark recorded version. George Coleman plays the solo of his life, especially the second chorus -- the mix of straight-ahead ideas with phrasing exploring the parameters of the abstract time and harmony created by the trio, melodic rhyme, taking real chances. Miles' control of the trumpet here, the nuance of sound, emotional range, naked high notes, gives lie to all the cliches about him not having technique (which admittedly he developed over time, but he played the shit out of the trumpet in the '60s.) The telepathy of the rhythm section is amazing, and, remarkably, from what I recall reading, the cats said they had trouble hearing each other that night on stage at Avery Fisher.

[JSngry]

Yeah, the reharmonization they did makes it a whole new tune within a pre-existing one. Pretty nifty trick, and one they did on other pieces was well, but never as organically as on Stella, inmo.

[BillF]

Anyone know the 1956 version by the Jazz Messengers that featured Jackie McLean, Bill Hardman, Sam Dockery and Spanky De Brest? This tender tune is given the tough hard bop treatment!

[MartyJazz]

Since I have a daughter named Stella, I figured I should finally learn this tune.

Tsk tsk!

Michael's innate modesty probably precluded him from mentioning his excellent trio version on the Steeplechase release MILESTONES:

[Shrdlu]

No one has ever come close to even touching Frank Comstock's definitive version.

Frank Whostock??

[Shrdlu]

There's also a nice Bird w. Strings on Verve - kills Comstock.

Q

Arrangements on the CP album are square, old man arrangements, not even coming close to Comstock.

It's ironic that most (not all) of the "jazz guy plus strings" albums had arrangements infinitely more square than you hear on so-called "easy listening" records from this period.

Right! All the Bird with Strings tracks suck.

[Shrdlu]

I don't like the Artois version, lol. Tastes like weewee.

Jim, concert G is a piece of cake on the alto - E, of course. I started on alto and my buddy at the time played pop guitar. All pop and rock guitar players play in concert E. It's the only key they know. That's C# on the alto, which I had to learn in a hurry - and isn't all that difficult.

[Teasing the Korean]

Right! All the Bird with Strings tracks suck.

The arrangements are simply not up to the standard of some of the more adventurous orchestral mood music of the period.

[Larry Kart]

No one has ever come close to even touching Frank Comstock's definitive version.

Frank Whostock??

Here ya go:

http://www.archive.org/details/psych-out_06

[Teasing the Korean]

Thanks, nice video!

[JSngry]

Right! All the Bird with Strings tracks suck.

The arrangements are simply not up to the standard of some of the more adventurous orchestral mood music of the period.

I concur.

And I know I've read interviews with Herbie Hancock where he mentions both Robert Farnon & Nelson Riddle as influences on his harmonic thinking, as far as opening up the harmony of standards.

There's an inherent limitation to writing functionally when the function is to provide backdrop for soloists who are basically ii-V-I players. Not that Bird was somebody like that, hell Bird went all over the place over standard changes when he really got in that zone, I'm just saying that the kind of insertions of harmonic detouring that is feasable in a setting where the intent is not providng backdrop for improvisation become less practical when it is.

We've come a long(-ish" way since then, though. Robert Freedman's charts for Wyton's Hot House Flowers album are marvellous example of this, and the Herbie and/or Farnon/Riddle/etc and/or whoever else you want to submit influence has been greatly felt over the last 4 decades or so, so it's not that big a deal any more, although it's still not as commonplace as would be nice, in my opinion.

[Teasing the Korean]

The "F" chord in measure 13 - and the Bb m6 that you may play for the first two beats of that measure - both sound SO much better with a C in the bass, IMHO.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Teasing the Korean

[Shrdlu]

My parents had some Robert Farnon, Jim. Light music stuff. He was great.

Getting back to the Bird With Strings, they should have been much better. There were probably budget restrictions. As it is, it would have been better if they had never made those records.

[medjuck]

Miles recorded this at the same May '58 session where he first recorded On Green Dolphin Street. Both of course then became jazz standards but was he the first to do jazz versions of them? Did Ahmad Jamal do them first? If they were the first jazz versions where did Miles hear them?

IIRC Red Garland often introduced obscure songs to the group but he wasn't present at this session.

(And they're both themes from movies.)

Part of my question was answered in Francis Davis's Grammy winning notes to the latest KOB release. Jamal did a very similar version of Green Dolphin Street a few years before Miles.

[Teasing the Korean]

My parents had some Robert Farnon, Jim. Light music stuff. He was great.

Getting back to the Bird With Strings, they should have been much better. There were probably budget restrictions. As it is, it would have been better if they had never made those records.

My sense is - and feel free to correct me, anyone - that most of the "with strings" jazz albums were created with the goal of trying to quickly broaden the audience for jazz artists. Maybe that is why more thought didn't go into choosing the arrangers or aiming for more adventurous approaches.

Still, some of these albums are better than others. I like Ralph Burns's arrangements for Lester Young. Also like the arrangements on the Sonny Still album (can't remember who did them).

[Larry Kart]

My parents had some Robert Farnon, Jim. Light music stuff. He was great.

Getting back to the Bird With Strings, they should have been much better. There were probably budget restrictions. As it is, it would have been better if they had never made those records.

My sense is - and feel free to correct me, anyone - that most of the "with strings" jazz albums were created with the goal of trying to quickly broaden the audience for jazz artists. Maybe that is why more thought didn't go into choosing the arrangers or aiming for more adventurous approaches.

Still, some of these albums are better than others. I like Ralph Burns's arrangements for Lester Young. Also like the arrangements on the Sonny Still album (can't remember who did them).

If you mean the Stitt album with strings of Ellington-associated material on Catalyst, the arranger was Bill Finegan (of Sauter-Finegan Orchestra fame). There were, I believe, at least two other dates with Stitt and strings, one for Granz with Ralph Burns charts, another for Prestige with charts by Billy Ver Planck.

[Teasing the Korean]

My parents had some Robert Farnon, Jim. Light music stuff. He was great.

Getting back to the Bird With Strings, they should have been much better. There were probably budget restrictions. As it is, it would have been better if they had never made those records.

My sense is - and feel free to correct me, anyone - that most of the "with strings" jazz albums were created with the goal of trying to quickly broaden the audience for jazz artists. Maybe that is why more thought didn't go into choosing the arrangers or aiming for more adventurous approaches.

Still, some of these albums are better than others. I like Ralph Burns's arrangements for Lester Young. Also like the arrangements on the Sonny Still album (can't remember who did them).

If you mean the Stitt album with strings of Ellington-associated material on Catalyst, the arranger was Bill Finegan (of Sauter-Finegan Orchestra fame). There were, I believe, at least two other dates with Stitt and strings, one for Granz with Ralph Burns charts, another for Prestige with charts by Billy Ver Planck.

It's the Stitt-Burns album, Sensuous Sounds, on Verve.

[Shrdlu]

Jamal did a very similar version of Green Dolphin Street a few years before Miles.

I read someplace that Cannonball was the one who suggested that song to Miles.

[Chuck Nessa]

Jamal did a very similar version of Green Dolphin Street a few years before Miles.

I read someplace that Cannonball was the one who suggested that song to Miles.

Miles was deep into Jamal way before Cannonball was around. As usual, check your reading sources.