king ubu Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Braxton has a huge oeuvre - I guess everybody will find some stuff in there that s/he can't connect to... but I have a feeling he should be treated like a giant of contemporary music (not just jazz, music in general). Though how would I really know... Some of his stuff is just great fun to listen to (anything by his quartet with Crispell, for insance, or for a more recent example, the two volumes of duos with Andrew Cyrille on Intakt), but some can be rather hard to take in, such as his solo work (which is I guess "idiosyncratic"... for those inclined to think so, it will also contain ample "proof" that Mr. Braxton is technically inept as far as playing a saxophone goes...), and then there's stuff that most here (including me) just might never get around listening (his composed works for piano, to name an example). And yes, Mr. DB, I'll look into some early Kenny G. (but only if you invite me over and offer me a few beers along with your playing your early Kenny G. discs for me!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 would never have guessed coltrane getting so little votes (less than ellington for instance...); had never heard braxton until i checked out some sound samples recently which sounded pretty cool - did i miss something? Why Coltrane is THE paradigm... no one would dare and make a fool of himself by stepping out and saying he pee on Love Supreme (ok, some might not dig the final two years, but hey, that's only a small portion they would say - though I'd say it's an essential portion that showed him developping and searching further beyond what he'd done before, and is also an indication that by 65/66 he was not content to just go on doing what he did from roughly 62-64/5). But someone once was bold enough to say he hates Miles... read on here, great thread (seriously): http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7784 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockefeller center Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 But someone once was bold enough to say he hates Miles... read on here, great thread (seriously): http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7784 http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...st&p=123133 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 But someone once was bold enough to say he hates Miles... read on here, great thread (seriously): http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7784 http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...st&p=123133 Maybe I could come over to your place and you'll play some early Kenny G for me? Or (get your ammo out) some of that kitschy PMG stuff... now that's a guy I never got into, although "Question and Answer" with Holland and Haynes is pretty good, and 80/81 has some fine moments, too... and of course the first album with Jaco... but that's about it, none of his "main" stuff does anything for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockefeller center Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Sorry, don't have any PMG or early Kenny G. But we could listen to Kenny G's greatest hits and some Spyro Gyra. Come on, come over! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockefeller center Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Love those unplugged electric keyboards: http://omploader.org/vMWQ0bQ/unplugged.jpg Or is it a harmonium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) Larry's dislike of the later Bill Evans actually was refreshing to me because it confirmed some of my own impressions (which I hadn't trusted entirely prior to my reading of his piece). But Evans was a funny and strange musical character, and I heard him, late in the game (1979 at his 50th birthday party) play in a way that I had not heard since the early 1960s; a beautiful version of Stars Fell on Alabama, un-effected, straightforward, beautifully phrased. So he still had it - Edited March 12, 2009 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Okay, here's the new guy's two cents: Years ago, I was very doctrinaire about who I liked and didn't. It was very clear-cut: I liked Monk, I hated Brubeck. I liked Ellington, I hated Kenton. But once I actually started listening carefully, I realized that Brubeck, Kenton, and a lot of people I thought I didn't like had recorded some great music. Yes, Brubeck's music can be ponderous and unswinging, but he can also come up with something like "We Crossed the Rhine," which gives me a lump in my throat, or "Someday My Prince Will Come," which at one point has three different time signatures going on at once and still swings like hell. All of the giants faltered at times, and a lot of second-tier talents have created some excellent music. Braxton: I used to love everything he did. As I started listening to more "avant classical" composers like Stockhausen, Webern, and Varese, though, Braxton's composed music started suffering in comparison. I just don't think he has the compositional technique to pull off what he is attempting with this music. I still love his "jazz-oriented" stuff. And Louis - damn. I prefer the early stuff, but listen to a late recording like "Dream a Little Dream of Me." He can't play that much trumpet anymore, but every note counts. Again, it brings a lump to my throat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I once walked out on Coltrane, when he was on one of his ludicrous solo binges. Enough is enough, no matter who you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Braxton: I used to love everything he did. As I started listening to more "avant classical" composers like Stockhausen, Webern, and Varese, though, Braxton's composed music started suffering in comparison. I just don't think he has the compositional technique to pull off what he is attempting with this music. I still love his "jazz-oriented" stuff. I agree. Folks around here know I'm a big fan of both Braxton and modern composition. I think his non-jazz music is just "OK". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedR Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 At those times when I suffer from a kind of listening apathy, I'm almost always pulled out of it by hearing live music. Maybe 15 years ago I saw Nicholas Payton at an outdoor festival. The crowd was politely appreciative until he played one of Armstrong's Hot Fives. Who would like jazz that's nearly 70 years old!? Well the crowd went crazy for the power and fun of that music. The energy of Payton's version translated into a standing ovation. That's when I could finally hear the greatness and relevance of Armstrong come through the filter of those old records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 That's when I could finally hear the greatness and relevance of Armstrong come through the filter of those old records. I think the main problem for me was that Armstrong (and early jazz in general) was stylistically so far from what I was listening to. I associated Armstrong with 'Hello Dolly' and 'What a Wonderful World' (nice enough but mum and dad music) and the sound of the 20s-30s with either British Trad (which was well past its fashionable stage by the 70s) or 'The Big Bands are Back' nostagia. When I did experiment with a Hot Fives LP in the early 80s it sounded so distant I couldn't really hear anything. I think the two things that made me go back were Humphrey Lyttleton's 'Best of Jazz' book where he made such a compelling case for the music, and hearing on the radio some of the sonic improvements that started to appear in the 80s - the Robert Parker series springs to mind (probably not approved by audiophiles but suddenly the music sounded in the room to my inexpert ears). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Yeah, it took me several years to get into 20s jazz and early Armstrong... I got the Columbia Hot Fives & Sevens box years ago, but only after several listens (with much time passing in between) I got to appreciate it and then later on actually enjoy it. In the meantime my listening had changed to include a lot of pre-war jazz (Condon and all those folks around him, Wild Bill Davison, Pee Wee Russell, etc, Lee Wiley, Teagarden etc) and that helped me to take the step back to the early stuff... and of course listening to Mosaics is always a big help and an eye and ear-opener to me - in this case the Bix/Tram/Tea, and then I found some of Bix' Masters of Jazz discs which mainly include Whiteman recordings - concentrating on the solo voice of one artist can make it easier to get into such music that seems strange and well, foreign (as in "the past is a foreign country... the did things differently there" or how that quote goes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaft Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Hi, Sorry guys but Coltrane and Monk are not on the top of my list.........yet Maybe some day I'll go "OH" and "AH"!? But for some years I've bought their albums but play them rarely. Joe Henderson should perhaps be in the List and Sonny Rollins too. I just want to like them all but not so far..... /Shaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 That's when I could finally hear the greatness and relevance of Armstrong come through the filter of those old records. I think the main problem for me was that Armstrong (and early jazz in general) was stylistically so far from what I was listening to. I associated Armstrong with 'Hello Dolly' and 'What a Wonderful World' (nice enough but mum and dad music) and the sound of the 20s-30s with either British Trad (which was well past its fashionable stage by the 70s) or 'The Big Bands are Back' nostagia. When I did experiment with a Hot Fives LP in the early 80s it sounded so distant I couldn't really hear anything. I think the two things that made me go back were Humphrey Lyttleton's 'Best of Jazz' book where he made such a compelling case for the music, and hearing on the radio some of the sonic improvements that started to appear in the 80s - the Robert Parker series springs to mind (probably not approved by audiophiles but suddenly the music sounded in the room to my inexpert ears). This is really interesting to me, because Bev and I seem to have been listening to the same rock at about the same time, then got into jazz at about the same time. During my early immersion into jazz, coming over from prog rock, I found a used copy of the Columbia LP "Louis Armstrong and Earl Hines", Volume 3 in the Columbia Louis LP series. This is the album with "Weather Bird". The entire album hit me hard immediately. I was stunned and loved it, although I had been listening to Yes and Zappa and Weather Report a year earlier. Everyone's journey is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 What got me into Pops was "Plays W. C. Handy" bought as an impulse lp purchase in Chicago in 1975. Just kept drawing me in. I'd been listening to electric Miles, some acoustic Miles, some Coltrane, Weather Report, Return to Forever, Flora and Airto, Yes and Grateful Dead and Traffic and HENDRIX. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) Yeah, it took me several years to get into 20s jazz and early Armstrong... I got the Columbia Hot Fives & Sevens box years ago, but only after several listens (with much time passing in between) I got to appreciate it and then later on actually enjoy it. In the meantime my listening had changed to include a lot of pre-war jazz (Condon and all those folks around him, Wild Bill Davison, Pee Wee Russell, etc, Lee Wiley, Teagarden etc) and that helped me to take the step back to the early stuff... and of course listening to Mosaics is always a big help and an eye and ear-opener to me - in this case the Bix/Tram/Tea, and then I found some of Bix' Masters of Jazz discs which mainly include Whiteman recordings - concentrating on the solo voice of one artist can make it easier to get into such music that seems strange and well, foreign (as in "the past is a foreign country... the did things differently there" or how that quote goes). This is really interesting to me, because Bev and I seem to have been listening to the same rock at about the same time, then got into jazz at about the same time. During my early immersion into jazz, coming over from prog rock, I found a used copy of the Columbia LP "Louis Armstrong and Earl Hines", Volume 3 in the Columbia Louis LP series. This is the album with "Weather Bird". The entire album hit me hard immediately. I was stunned and loved it, although I had been listening to Yes and Zappa and Weather Report a year earlier. Everyone's journey is different. I got into Ellington very quickly in the late 70s, mainly because I had clear reference points from everything from Steely Dan to Mike Westbrook. In the early 80s I was obsessed with the Billie Holiday 30s recordings and started to take to the instrumentalists. I think what stopped me going much further was the availability of decent quality LPs. I recall buying things by Count Basie and King Oliver that sounded very distant. I think it was the late 90s, and particularly the arrival of the net and bulletin boards, that really piqued my curiosity about pre-1945. I remember Lon and Swinging Swede (amongst others) being really helpful at that time (I still have a print off of a long set of recommendations from SS). My whole experience of music has been of liking some things immediately and being indifferent to or disliking other things. And yet, at a later date, coming to like things I previously found dull or irritating. Which is why I'm loath to write off anything just because I don't like it now. I also think there's so much music out there that we can afford to build up our interests according to what suits us locally rather than according to what is deemed great. Verdi or Webern might be considered greater composers than Vaughan Williams or Frank Bridge but I'd sooner go with what renonates with my brain rather than what someone tells me I ought to be listening to. But the fact that I'm told I ought to be listening to something will often make me investigate. Edited March 14, 2009 by Bev Stapleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranemonk Posted March 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I'm finding it affirming that I'm not alone in my feelings about Armstrong.... I'm not surprised Brubeck is up there in 2nd place.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.