Funny Rat

[Guest Chaney]

Can you folks help me out on something?

Can you provide names and/or recommendations for what I've read described as a flourishing Boston (or is it all of New England?) free-improv-or-whatever jazz/music scene? Honestly, it's a mystery to me and I wouldn't mind exploring but I'm clueless as to who is involved, labels, history...

Thanks!

Edited March 3, 2006 by Chaney

[jon abbey]

I'm sure there are a few different scenes/microscenes within Boston jazz/free improv, and I don't know exactly which you're interested in, but the one I'm most familiar with is the Greg Kelley/Bhob Rainey/Jason Lescalleet (now in Maine)/Howie Stelzer/Brendan Murray/Mike Bullock abstract crew. the top labels are Sedimental and Intransitive, the Rainey/Kelley/Lescalleet double CD due soon on Intransitive is much awaited in this house.

[clifford_thornton]

Pianist Lowell Davidson, who had a single record on ESP with Graves and Peacock, was an integral part of the Boston scene up through the 80s. Apparently he exacted a pretty strong influence on a number of people working there, including guitarist Joe Morris.

In the 70s: saxophonists Michael Cosmic and Phill Musra, and drummer Huseyin Ertunc (of Turkish heritage) had a powerful post-AACM trio that recorded under each of their names, as well as in the World's Experience Orchestra. Trumpeter Mark Harvey is a regular fixture in the Boston scene, and had some pretty engaging small groups in the '70s and '80s, including a rare trio on Bush Records.

David Ware and Cooper-Moore studied at Berklee, and their Apogee group began in Boston, with Marc Edwards on drums and occasionally Chris Amberger on bass (great former Oakland-area bassist who played with Smiley Winters). Of course, the history of that group is well-documented.

Edit for a few more names: Raphe Malik, Dennis Warren, Billy Elgart, John Voigt, Laurence Cook... will try to think of a few more.

Edited March 3, 2006 by clifford_thornton

[John B]

This will give you an idea of what is happening around Boston at any given time for improv:

Boston Improv calendar

Hosted by the wonderful Twisted Village.

[randyhersom]

Does The Fringe still gig around Boston? The trio featuring George Garzone seems to have been a pioneering influence in the 70s

[clifford_thornton]

Think so! Thanks for the reminder...

I have a couple of those Ap-Gu-Ga LPs and they're solid.

[Д.Д.]

As far as BS/SN, I really like Jon Jang's Two Flowers on a Stem. Post-to-free-bop with Chinese folk-music themeses. With David Murray, James Newton, Billy Hart, Santi Debriano and one other musician who plays erhu. Newton is stupendous on this, and there's a really nice version of "Meditations on Integration".

I have another Jang's Soul Note disc ("Immigration Suite" it's called, I think), and it has a lot of extremely boring spoken word segments. Otherwise, I have Jang on a couple more CDs as a sideman (with Max Roach's Beijing Trio and with Francis Wong - both on Asian Improv label) and he is quite interesting, particularly when he incorporates Chinese elements into his playing.

RE: Black Saint / Soul Note

Don't the forget the 3 Cecil Taylors - "For Olim", "Olu Iwa" and "Winged Serpent (Sliding Quadrants)". Of the 3 my preference is "For Olim" but my bias is towards his solo performances.

Yes!

Of those, I actually have only "For Olim", and it is one of the must-have Cecil's solo recordings - and one of the more (most?) subdued and varied ones. Beautiful piano sound as well.

Can anyone commment on the Roscoe Mitchells? Outside of the AEC I'm not at all familiar with his work during the 80s.

Of what I've heard, I particularly liked the "Duets & Solos" (Black Saint) with Muhal Richard Abrams - beautiful, beutiful playing by both.

Thinking about it, this might be the only Roscoe Mitchell non-AEoC disc I really like.

On a completely unrelated note, I picked up a copy of "Live At The LU" the other day. A couple of listens in I'm still trying to wrap head around it. My (admittedly limited) experience with Fennesz led me to expect his playing on this would be sort of melodic or delicate (?) and that's certainly not the case - I don't mean that as a negative in any way.

Fennesz' solo work (which I believe you are referencing) differs quite a bit from his collaborative work. I saw a live show of Rowe solo / Fennesz solo / Rowe and Fennesz duo not too long after Live at the LU was released. I prefered the live show and still don't love Live at the LU, although I enjoy listening to it on occasion.

For melodic collaboration check out Polwechsel / Fennesz - Wrapped Islands.

My recommendations for best places to start for Fennesz collaborations are Four Gentleman of the Guitar, with Keith Rowe, Toshimaru Nakamura and Oren Ambarchi, ErstLive 004 with Sachiko M, Otomo Yoshihide and Peter Rehberg and the orange disc on Charizma, with Werner Dafeldecker,Christof Kurzmann, Jim O'Rourke and Kevin Drumm.

I also didn't find "Live at the LU" that interesting - but Polweschel/Fennesz "Wrapped Islands" is beautiful, and Fennesz solo "Hotel Paral.lel" (Mego) is excellent as well (even if I listened to it only once and don't remember much of it now ).

Just noticed that The Sale Of Tickets For Money Was Abolished (on Balance Point Acoustics, with Tony Bevan/Damon Smith/Scott R. Looney) has gone out of print. MUCH tooo wonderful to now be unavailable.

I'll be on a look out for this one.

By the way, thanks to blake I have a copy of Derek Bailey's Aida sitting here, which I was able to buy for $8.99. Very nice.

My pleasure. I'm just happy no one beat you to it. Of the 25 or so Bailey discs I've heard I think Aida is my favorite.

I have purchased a few Bailey discs recently (including Aida).. but... well, I still cannot fully appreciate what he is doing. So far I really like Duos & Trios (Universal Japan) - I might appreciate it more thanks to great recording quality and Kaoru Abe's insane playing. I also like, with certain reservations, No Waiting (Potlatch) with most wonderful Joelle Leandre - with reservations due to Bailey seemingly refusing to communicate here. The rest has left me cold so far. Edited March 3, 2006 by Д.Д.

[Д.Д.]

Pullen/Rivers "Capricorn Rising" is another one that looks good. Anyone have an opinion?

It looks good and sounds very good. Rivers challenged Don Pullen much more than Pullen's usual tenor associates at the time (George Adams and Chico Freeman in particular). A thoroughly 'out' session which reaches just shade of the Rivers-Cecil Taylor duets.

This was one of the very first releases from Black Saint!

Well, I'd beg to differ. I thought it was pretty weak (listening to it now - to re-confirm). It is a very simplistic work with first track having a lot of extremely predictable tenor wailing, and then a couple of tracks with Rivers doing these up-and-down nasal soprano runs (and a bit of unspectacular flute) - one of the tracks being silly rock-ish tune. Pullen is doing his regular thing which sound spectacular when you hear it for the first time (I was thrilled first timee I heard Pullen), but gets extremely predictable very soon. Drummer (Bobby Battle) is nothing special either. I do not really hear anybody challenging each other (or themselves)here - very lazy music, IMO.

Can you folks help me out on something?

Can you provide names and/or recommendations for what I've read described as a flourishing Boston (or is it all of New England?) free-improv-or-whatever jazz/music scene? Honestly, it's a mystery to me and I wouldn't mind exploring but I'm clueless as to who is involved, labels, history...

Thanks!

Tony, as Jon mentioned, Bhob Rainey's music is highly recommended. I enjoy immensely those few discs of his I have, pareticularly "Crawlspace / Universal Noir" on now-defunct Tautology label (should be still possible to find), and his solo "Inc." on Sachimay.

I think trumpeter Taylor Ho Bynum is also from Boston.

Paul Flaherty occupies the fire-breathing spectrum of the Boston (and world) music, I guess, and he is very effective (and sincere, IMO) in this. He has a good, even admirable for stamina and determination, but somewhat limited in approach solo CD called "Voices" (on Wet Paint label), and a really excellent recently-released scream-fest Cold Bleak Heat: "It's magnificent, but it isn't war" (on Family Wineyard - also Boston-based label?) with Greg Kelley (!), excellent drummer Chris Corsano and Matt Heyner on bass.

------------------------

Meanwhile, Pullen/Rivers is over, and goes directly to the exile bin. If somebody wants to receive it one day, let me know. I'll actually listen to some Paul Flaherty now.

------------------------

Looks like Lotte Anker's "Six Row Barley" (Utech; edition of 100) is not available anymore - I would urge you to get this one - Anker is an excellent and original alto-saxophonist, and on this disc her partner is non other than Paal Nilssen-Love, and they do some miracles together (there is actually also some electronics guy who is providing some occasional unnecessery, but not too annoying, humming noisy fan background.

Edited March 3, 2006 by Д.Д.

[Д.Д.]

Have you folks noticed one of our newest members?

Aurorarising

Welcome, Aurora!

Have you folks noticed one of our newest members?

Aurorarising

She's gorgeous!

No doubt, but may I suggest that you also check out her music - Cruxes on balancepointacoustics (availble dorectly from Aurora, I assume) is excellent.

[Guest Chaney]

Thank you all for the pointers on the Boston scene. I knew of Rainey and Sachimay buy was otherwise in the dark.

If I ever get a paycheck at my new place of employment (I get paid every two weeks ), I'll place some orders.

~~~~~~~~~~

$12 folks. You can't go wrong.

Edited March 3, 2006 by Chaney

[Д.Д.]

Pianist Lowell Davidson, who had a single record on ESP with Graves and Peacock, was an integral part of the Boston scene up through the 80s. Apparently he exacted a pretty strong influence on a number of people working there, including guitarist Joe Morris.

And man, is this a beautiful record!

[jon abbey]

Family Vineyard is run by Eric Weddle of the Unstable Ensemble (among others), who used to live in Indiana and now lives in North Carolina.

[Guest Chaney]

David: Do us a favor and buy up the entire Family Vineyard catalogue and post reviews.

Family Vineyard: Overseas orders add $4 per item to cover Air Mail shipping and handling.

Ouch!

[jon abbey]

that's a lot, I'm guessing Eric would be flexible for larger orders.

[Guest Chaney]

Paul Flaherty occupies the fire-breathing spectrum of the Boston (and world) music, I guess, and he is very effective (and sincere, IMO) in this. He has a good, even admirable for stamina and determination, but somewhat limited in approach solo CD called "Voices" (on Wet Paint label), and a really excellent recently-released scream-fest Cold Bleak Heat: "It's magnificent, but it isn't war" (on Family Wineyard - also Boston-based label?)

Family Vineyard

PO Box 12243

Raleigh, NC 27605-2243

USA

I'm listening to samples right now. The label seems to have a nicely varied sound to it.

Edited March 4, 2006 by Chaney

[Д.Д.]

David: Do us a favor and buy up the entire Family Vineyard catalogue and post reviews.

Family Vineyard: Overseas orders add $4 per item to cover Air Mail shipping and handling.

Ouch!

that's a lot, I'm guessing Eric would be flexible for larger orders.

I assume Eric would be interested in swapping for a set of complete Cold Blue label releases.

[blake]

Pullen/Rivers "Capricorn Rising" is another one that looks good. Anyone have an opinion?

It looks good and sounds very good. Rivers challenged Don Pullen much more than Pullen's usual tenor associates at the time (George Adams and Chico Freeman in particular). A thoroughly 'out' session which reaches just shade of the Rivers-Cecil Taylor duets.

This was one of the very first releases from Black Saint!

Well, I'd beg to differ. I thought it was pretty weak (listening to it now - to re-confirm). It is a very simplistic work with first track having a lot of extremely predictable tenor wailing, and then a couple of tracks with Rivers doing these up-and-down nasal soprano runs (and a bit of unspectacular flute) - one of the tracks being silly rock-ish tune. Pullen is doing his regular thing which sound spectacular when you hear it for the first time (I was thrilled first timee I heard Pullen), but gets extremely predictable very soon. Drummer (Bobby Battle) is nothing special either. I do not really hear anybody challenging each other (or themselves)here - very lazy music, IMO.

Can you folks help me out on something?

Can you provide names and/or recommendations for what I've read described as a flourishing Boston (or is it all of New England?) free-improv-or-whatever jazz/music scene? Honestly, it's a mystery to me and I wouldn't mind exploring but I'm clueless as to who is involved, labels, history...

Thanks!

Tony, as Jon mentioned, Bhob Rainey's music is highly recommended. I enjoy immensely those few discs of his I have, pareticularly "Crawlspace / Universal Noir" on now-defunct Tautology label (should be still possible to find), and his solo "Inc." on Sachimay.

I think trumpeter Taylor Ho Bynum is also from Boston.

Paul Flaherty occupies the fire-breathing spectrum of the Boston (and world) music, I guess, and he is very effective (and sincere, IMO) in this. He has a good, even admirable for stamina and determination, but somewhat limited in approach solo CD called "Voices" (on Wet Paint label), and a really excellent recently-released scream-fest Cold Bleak Heat: "It's magnificent, but it isn't war" (on Family Wineyard - also Boston-based label?) with Greg Kelley (!), excellent drummer Chris Corsano and Matt Heyner on bass.

------------------------

Meanwhile, Pullen/Rivers is over, and goes directly to the exile bin. If somebody wants to receive it one day, let me know. I'll actually listen to some Paul Flaherty now.

------------------------

Looks like Lotte Anker's "Six Row Barley" (Utech; edition of 100) is not available anymore - I would urge you to get this one - Anker is an excellent and original alto-saxophonist, and on this disc her partner is non other than Paal Nilssen-Love, and they do some miracles together (there is actually also some electronics guy who is providing some occasional unnecessery, but not too annoying, humming noisy fan background.

Thanks for your recommendations and for the real-time review...I think I'll order "Duets & Solos" rather than "Capricorn Rising". (Witness here my attempt at curbing my music expeditures by selecting one or the other rather than just getting both.) Besides I can always trade you for it later if need be.

And by the way, for you US board members the BS/SN sale at The Woods works out to about $9.60 a disc with shipping and VAT deducted.

[blake]

Paul Flaherty occupies the fire-breathing spectrum of the Boston (and world) music, I guess, and he is very effective (and sincere, IMO) in this. He has a good, even admirable for stamina and determination, but somewhat limited in approach solo CD called "Voices" (on Wet Paint label), and a really excellent recently-released scream-fest Cold Bleak Heat: "It's magnificent, but it isn't war" (on Family Wineyard - also Boston-based label?)

Family Vineyard

PO Box 12243

Raleigh, NC 27605-2243

USA

I'm listening to samples right now. The label seems to have a nicely varied sound to it.

Jason Bivins of Unstable Ensemble is a contributor to Signal To Noise. I enjoy his perspective and it led me to pick up the first couple UE discs. It's been a while since I listened to them but I recall liking both - the 2nd release moreso than the 1st I think. I'd have to dig them out and listen again to add any lucid commentary.

[P.L.M]

Pullen/Rivers "Capricorn Rising" is another one that looks good. Anyone have an opinion?

It looks good and sounds very good. Rivers challenged Don Pullen much more than Pullen's usual tenor associates at the time (George Adams and Chico Freeman in particular). A thoroughly 'out' session which reaches just shade of the Rivers-Cecil Taylor duets.

This was one of the very first releases from Black Saint!

Well, I'd beg to differ. I thought it was pretty weak (listening to it now - to re-confirm). It is a very simplistic work with first track having a lot of extremely predictable tenor wailing, and then a couple of tracks with Rivers doing these up-and-down nasal soprano runs (and a bit of unspectacular flute) - one of the tracks being silly rock-ish tune. Pullen is doing his regular thing which sound spectacular when you hear it for the first time (I was thrilled first timee I heard Pullen), but gets extremely predictable very soon. Drummer (Bobby Battle) is nothing special either. I do not really hear anybody challenging each other (or themselves)here - very lazy music, IMO.

Even if I am a little late to the battle, I am, for once, completely in aggreement with David.

This record has never had, even when he came out, a good reputation (or good critics).

Agreed also about Bob James on ESP (but only for this one, the rest of his production that I've listen too is, to say the least, uninteresting).

David, there's still hope between us!

Edited March 4, 2006 by P.L.M

[Alexander Hawkins]

Pianist Lowell Davidson, who had a single record on ESP with Graves and Peacock, was an integral part of the Boston scene up through the 80s. Apparently he exacted a pretty strong influence on a number of people working there, including guitarist Joe Morris.

And man, is this a beautiful record!

Agreed - beautiful stuff.

FWIW, Taylor Ho Bynum is originally from Baltimore, I believe, but was based around Boston for a long while (before moving to NYC) as a result of his Wesleyan connection. He plays in Boston in 'The Fully Celebrated Orchestra' alongside Jim Hobbs.

[Guest Chaney]

Those Boston boys and girls really need to set up a site, along the lines of Bay Area Improvisers Network. It's not like it'd get mega-hits but it would be helpful to those looking to explore their sound world.

The Bay Area site is not meticulously maintained but at least it's there.

Bay Area Improvisers Network @ CD Baby

Hey David, check this one out:

"Solo contrabass compositions. By turns languid, dreamy, cranky and schizoid, Guberman's compositions/improvisations delve into interesting, probing abstract explorations. Who needs synths, noise machines, and fancy audio tracks when you've got a contrabass and the musical technique and imagination to exploit it?"

--Jim Esch, Orange Street Press

Edited March 4, 2006 by Chaney

[Д.Д.]

Hey David, check this one out:

"Solo contrabass compositions. By turns languid, dreamy, cranky and schizoid, Guberman's compositions/improvisations delve into interesting, probing abstract explorations. Who needs synths, noise machines, and fancy audio tracks when you've got a contrabass and the musical technique and imagination to exploit it?"

--Jim Esch, Orange Street Press

Tony, I have this disc, and I think it is excellent - one of my favorite solo bass records. I think the CD is officially OOP, so if you are interested (check the samples out at CD Baby and one full track from Pax website), get it asap. Morgan Guberman also has a solo bass-guitar release on lIMItEd SEdItION called "Passador-Jomel" - this is even more sick shit than the acoutstic disc: mp3 sample. "Passador-Jomel" is an edition of 79 copies. Still available, five years after release. Multi-million worldwide improv music fan base should be collectively embarassed.

[clifford_thornton]

Flaherty: I just got that Beloved Music disc, and look forward to delving into it. Tried to have a "shop" (yes, an actual store) order Cold Bleak Heat for me when it came out, but they couldn't get it. Guess I should go to the source...

I have a number of Flaherty's recordings, some on vinyl, and still haven't made up my mind on him. I still keep buying the records, though, so there is an interest. Just don't know what to make of it yet.

[Alexander Hawkins]

On a Black Saint note - I'm just listening to November 1981 and it is fantastic. Compositionally very interesting, and Bill Dixon is something else.

How do Barry Guy and William Parker work together on the Vade Mecum disks? Sounds like a slightly unlikely pairing.

[jon abbey]

How do Barry Guy and William Parker work together on the Vade Mecum disks? Sounds like a slightly unlikely pairing.

more than slightly, and I'm not normally much of a fan of either. but both of them almost completely rein themselves in here to play Dixon's music, they get that this session isn't about them.

Edited March 6, 2006 by jon abbey