ejp626 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 ... But the point is that they DID record him, and even gave him a vocal spotlight on nearly every album. Not only that, but his vocal tracks quickly became album highlights. ... See you keep over-egging the pudding. I can easily imagine nearly all Beatles albums without Ringo's vocal contributions, and I vastly prefer them that way. If I am close enough to the player, I skip over Ringo's features with only a couple of exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 just a point of information - Perkins lifted Matchbox from Blind Lemon Jefferson - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 I picked up "Revolution in the Head." Not sure what to think. Reading here and there I see a lot of bold assumptions I'm not sure are relevant or accurate. Reading "Come Together" I got big chuckles, especially the final paragraph! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Hey, we're a Oprah Reading Group™ now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Englewood Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 (edited) Speaking of guitar solos, here's something I learned from "Revolution in the Head" that I DIDN'T know about the Beatles: Paul played the guitar solo on "Taxman"! Somehow that disappoints me a little. "Taxman" is a George song and one of his best, so I naturally assumed that he had played the blistering solo. Nope. That was Paul... Well if you had read post 549 of this thread you would have learned it a bit earlier. :D Edited September 29, 2009 by Cliff Englewood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Englewood Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 I picked up "Revolution in the Head." Not sure what to think. Reading here and there I see a lot of bold assumptions I'm not sure are relevant or accurate. I had a feeling you'd say something like that about "Revolution in the Head." Pray tell which of the assumptions are bold and which are irrelevant and inaccurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 bear in mind that, if we believe Emerick, Paul played most of the memorable gutar solos. I actually believe this, as I've always found George to be the definition of mediocre - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Apparently, Perkins was in the studio the day the Beatles recorded their cover of "Matchbox." I have just about everything the Beatles recorded, and I put it all on my iPod... except for that song. Listening to Ringo butcher the lyrics, the awkward phrasing... I find it painful and embarrassing. The opening line is supposed to be "I'm sitting here wondering, will a matchbox hold my clothes". To me, it souds like Ringo sings: "I'm sitting here watching a matchbox holding my clothes, I'm sitting here wondering... a matchbox holding my clothes...". ??? To make matters worse, look how it's been twisted further by some genius transcribers... here's what the first few links provided when I googled "matchbox lyrics beatles": "I said I'm sitting here watching matchbox hole in my clothes I said I'm sitting here wondering matchbox hole in my clothes". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Apparently, Perkins was in the studio the day the Beatles recorded their cover of "Matchbox." Legend has it that Perkins himself played the guitar solo on their version, although that's been disputed... Speaking of guitar solos, here's something I learned from "Revolution in the Head" that I DIDN'T know about the Beatles: Paul played the guitar solo on "Taxman"! Somehow that disappoints me a little. "Taxman" is a George song and one of his best, so I naturally assumed that he had played the blistering solo. Nope. That was Paul... I ALSO didn't know that the same solo was recycled and used (backwards) on "Tomorrow Never Knows." Learn something new every day! Also, the "seagull" noises on "Tomorrow Never Knows" are apparently a loop that Paul made of himself laughing, sped up and distorted... Actually, somebody told me that back in (undergrad) college, that Paul played the solo on "Taxman, " not George. I didn't want to believe it. OTOH, maybe that's one reason that "Taxman" is such a very good Harrison song, that the other Beatles really gave it some attention and helped out (supposedly John added some bite to the lyrics as well,) rather than just letting George sink or swim on his own. One thing that MacDonald points out in his book is that some of the weaker Harrison songs during the Beatles' career suffered from scant effort from John and Paul, whereas if they had helped with arranging and so on they could perhaps have improved some of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjarrell Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Apparently, Perkins was in the studio the day the Beatles recorded their cover of "Matchbox." I have just about everything the Beatles recorded, and I put it all on my iPod... except for that song. Listening to Ringo butcher the lyrics, the awkward phrasing... I find it painful and embarrassing. The opening line is supposed to be "I'm sitting here wondering, will a matchbox hold my clothes". To me, it souds like Ringo sings: "I'm sitting here watching a matchbox holding my clothes, I'm sitting here wondering... a matchbox holding my clothes...". ??? To make matters worse, look how it's been twisted further by some genius transcribers... here's what the first few links provided when I googled "matchbox lyrics beatles": "I said I'm sitting here watching matchbox hole in my clothes I said I'm sitting here wondering matchbox hole in my clothes". At least there's no talk of pheasants! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 EC, I'd rather not engage you in conversation, it doesn't go well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 actually, if you listen to the guitar solo on Taxman (especially nice with the new mastering) I think you can hear that it's being played by someone with a somewhat faltering technique - which makes sense, as Paul did not play a lot of guitar. Still, it's a brilliantly constructed solo. and once again, I'm willing to bet that Paul, dead as he was, played a LOT of the solos we credit to George. In those days McCartney had a sharp lyrical edge to him. George, to quote National Lampoon, was too busy stealing material from the world - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 (edited) just a point of information - Perkins lifted Matchbox from Blind Lemon Jefferson - Oooookay... You say that like Perkins was somehow unique in this. You know that's not the case. It's the "folk process" at work. A musician borrows a lyric or phrasing from a song he has heard somewhere along the line and turns it into another song...you know how it works. I SERIOUSLY doubt that Jefferson originated the lyric about a "matchbox holding my clothes." Undoubtedly, he lifted the idea from someone else. You know, for example, that Billie Holiday sings about her man having "the nerve to lay a matchbox on my clothes. I didn't have so many, but I sure had a long way to go." Maybe she lifted it from Lemon, but somehow I think it's much more likely that she lifted from somebody else who either lifted from Lemon, or from the same source Lemon used. Edit: I just looked it up. Ma Rainey recorded a song with a similar lyric (about a "matchbox holding my clothes") in her 1923 recording "Lost Wandering Blues." Rainey's song predates Jefferson's by four years, indicating that both probably got it from the same folk source (and it makes more sense to me that Holiday picked it up from Ma Rainey than Blind Lemon...don't know why...just a gut feeling). As for Perkins, he never claimed that "Matchbox" was an original idea. He recorded the song at the suggestion of his father, Buck, who could only recall a few lines of Jefferson's recording. Clearly, Perkins took the lines his father could remember and fleshed it out. Just a funny side note: Last night I was getting a wooden match from a box we keep in the kitchen. My daughter walked by and said (of the matchbox), "Is that for your clothes?" Edited September 29, 2009 by Alexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Speaking of guitar solos, here's something I learned from "Revolution in the Head" that I DIDN'T know about the Beatles: Paul played the guitar solo on "Taxman"! Somehow that disappoints me a little. "Taxman" is a George song and one of his best, so I naturally assumed that he had played the blistering solo. Nope. That was Paul... Well if you had read post 549 of this thread you would have learned it a bit earlier. :D Yep. Must've overlooked that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjarrell Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Wasn't it Blind Lemon Pie that learned everything he knew from the Rutles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 ... But the point is that they DID record him, and even gave him a vocal spotlight on nearly every album. Not only that, but his vocal tracks quickly became album highlights. ... See you keep over-egging the pudding. I can easily imagine nearly all Beatles albums without Ringo's vocal contributions, and I vastly prefer them that way. If I am close enough to the player, I skip over Ringo's features with only a couple of exceptions. To each his own. I couldn't imagine skipping a single track on ANY Beatles album (or on any album at all, for that matter. But then again, I read all of the comics in the paper every day, including the ones I hate like "Mark Trail," "Ziggy," and "Family Circus"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 "You say that like Perkins was somehow unique in this" 1) where did I say that? 2) my point was only that this was not a new song when Perkins did it and, as I said, he got it from Blind Lemon. 3) and I repeat, where did I say "Perkins was somehow unique in this" ? Please be a little more careful - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 "You say that like Perkins was somehow unique in this" 1) where did I say that? 2) my point was only that this was not a new song when Perkins did it and, as I said, he got it from Blind Lemon. 3) and I repeat, where did I say "Perkins was somehow unique in this" ? Please be a little more careful - I apologize if I implied hostile intent... It sounded to me as though you were "calling Perkins out" for "stealing" Lemon's song. If I misread your post I apologize. To my ears, Perkin's song is a variation on Lemon's song, however, and not a "cover version." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quincy Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 At least there's no talk of pheasants! I don't know about you but I don't want a pheasant for a girlfriend! As for her not being a peasant, even back then Paul was thinking about what could happen in a divorce settlement. Better to marry someone with some money, otherwise a person could lose a leg. Sorry...couldn't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjarrell Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Englewood Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 EC, I'd rather not engage you in conversation, it doesn't go well. Had a feeling you'd say something like too. Well if not for me then, please enlighten the other members of the Board as to where Macdonald went wrong, or maybe try reading the whole book first before you make such vague and pretentious sweeping statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 (edited) C, if you look at my statement (only one) without the animosity you seem to have welling inside you for me, you'll see that it is neither sweeping nor in my opinion pretentious. (I don't know where you get the pretentious from, and frankly I'm tired of your negativity and don't want to know). Here and there, and "i'm not sure," it's just not what you paint it, nor worth the venom. If you want an example, read the last paragraph of the "Come Together" portion. It just seems an inaccurate generality to me, boldly put where it need not be. Your mileage may vary, but I feel what I feel. . "THE song". . . "since undermined the foundation of Western civilization". . . . I don't buy that at all. Edited September 29, 2009 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Ouch! No, that's a Rutles tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 just a point of information - Perkins lifted Matchbox from Blind Lemon Jefferson - ...and "everybody's tying to Be My Baby" & "Honey Don't" from Roy Newman, maybe "Matchbox" as well, all of then possibly 2nd or 3rd hand; that's the way real music works. Clean slate originality is an inanely Romantic notion, copyright law even makes provision for "derivative works". Everybody appropriates, it's what you do with it that matters, but that's much harder to come to grips with... Personally I love what Perkins and the Beatles did (generally, not always) and Led Zep not so much. just a point of information - Perkins lifted Matchbox from Blind Lemon Jefferson - ...and "everybody's tying to Be My Baby" & "Honey Don't" from Roy Newman, maybe "Matchbox" as well, all of then possibly 2nd or 3rd hand; that's the way real music works. Clean slate originality is an inanely Romantic notion, copyright law even makes provision for "derivative works". Everybody appropriates, it's what you do with it that matters, but that's much harder to come to grips with... Personally I love what Perkins and the Beatles did (generally, not always) and Led Zep not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjarrell Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Ouch! No, that's a Rutles tune. My favorite one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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