Ethan Iverson on Lester Young at Do the Math

[ghost of miles]

I put this in the Night Lights round-up post, but it deserves a thread of its own:

Do the Math: Lester Young Centennial

...includes, among many other things, Ethan hanging out with Lee Konitz while they listen to some choice Lester solos. It's an epic post.

[Quasimado]

I put this in the Night Lights round-up post, but it deserves a thread of its own:

Do the Math: Lester Young Centennial

...includes, among many other things, Ethan hanging out with Lee Konitz while they listen to some choice Lester solos. It's an epic post.

Haven't got through all of this yet, but there is a lot of love and beauty here. Even when he doesn't get it quite right (previous article on Warne Marsh/ LT), Ethan gets pretty close to the source of what is jazz to me... guess I'll have to check HIM out ...

Q

[Lazaro Vega]

Yeah, that's good. Konitz and Marsh playing "Pound Cake" as a head came out on a Storyville LP, though I don't know if that version was from the Jazz Showcase.....

[Chuck Nessa]

No it is not. Joe Segal gave the Showcase tapes to Lee and they are unreleased.

[medjuck]

Is there a source for the pre-'41 live sessions he draws these solos from?

[John L]

Great stuff! Thanks for the link.

I wonder what Iverson had in mind with his initial comments about Pres sounding great with "New Orleans-style musicians." I have no doubt that he would have sounded great in a New Orleans-style context. But are there any such recordings? Or maybe he just had in mind "Swing-era musicians."

Is there a source for the pre-'41 live sessions he draws these solos from?

The sadly out-of-print Count Basie and Lester Young Masters of Jazz series presented a complete collection of these recordings from 1937-mid-1939, and a few later ones. Now you can find quite a few of them as downloads on iTunes and the like under Count Basie's name. Quite a lot of live recordings of early Basie exist, especially from the Chatterbox. That is a somewhat hidden and underappreciated source of great and classic jazz, including fabulous Pres.

Edited August 28, 2009 by John L

[Lazaro Vega]

I was, curious, too, about where he found the Basie/Goodman/Young version of Lady Be Good (which is different from the Spirituals to Swing jam?) as well as Bird with McShann at a dance in '46? playing Lady Be Good, and the Basie version from the Famous Door (not included in the America's #1 Band set from Columbia, which has a big chunk of stuff from the Famous Door).

[Rosco]

I was, curious, too, about where he found the Basie/Goodman/Young version of Lady Be Good (which is different from the Spirituals to Swing jam?) as well as Bird with McShann at a dance in '46? playing Lady Be Good, and the Basie version from the Famous Door (not included in the America's #1 Band set from Columbia, which has a big chunk of stuff from the Famous Door).

The Bird track is on a CD called Early Bird: Jay McShann featuring Charlie Parker on the British Spotlite label

EDIT: Jay, not Yay!

Edited August 28, 2009 by Rosco

[Lazaro Vega]

Ah, criminie! I have the Spotlight lp version of that at home. Was looking all over the Stash "Early Bird" and was at a loss. Thanks for clearing that up.

[John L]

I was, curious, too, about where he found the Basie/Goodman/Young version of Lady Be Good (which is different from the Spirituals to Swing jam?)

I am too! I don't seem to have this version in my collection either, and I thought that my early Pres collection was virtually complete. Does anybody know anything about this track? It is not included on either the Lester Young or Count Basie Masters of Jazz series. I imagine that it was probably in the Benny Goodman Masters of Jazz series, and was therefore left off of the other two.

Edited August 31, 2009 by John L

[Cliff Englewood]

I put this in the Night Lights round-up post, but it deserves a thread of its own:

Do the Math: Lester Young Centennial

...includes, among many other things, Ethan hanging out with Lee Konitz while they listen to some choice Lester solos. It's an epic post.

Thanks for that. :tup

[Lazaro Vega]

Loren Schoenberg writes in the Charlie Christian "Genius of Electric guitar" box from Columbia that Young and Goodman "only made a few sessions together -- a Teddy Wilson date with Billie Holiday, a jam session at Goodman's Carnegie Hall Concert, and a WNEW broadcast with Roy Eldridge and Teddy Wilson..." I think there were some studio sides with Young on tenor in the Goodman big band, too.

[John L]

Loren Schoenberg writes in the Charlie Christian "Genius of Electric guitar" box from Columbia that Young and Goodman "only made a few sessions together -- a Teddy Wilson date with Billie Holiday, a jam session at Goodman's Carnegie Hall Concert, and a WNEW broadcast with Roy Eldridge and Teddy Wilson..." I think there were some studio sides with Young on tenor in the Goodman big band, too.

I am virtually positive that there were no studio recordings of Lester Young sitting in with the Goodman big band. Looking through my collection, I believe that this is all that I have with Benny Goodman and Lester Young together:

Benny Goodman big band (1937: live) Tin-Pin-Tin

Bennie Goodman Carnegie Hall Jam (1938): Honeysuckle Rose

Spirituals to Swing Carnegie Hall Jam (1938) Oh, Lady Be Good

Benny Goodman small group: I Know that You Know (1938)

Small group with Charlie Christian (studio: 1940): Ad Lib Blues, Charlie's Dream, I Never Knew, Lester's Dream, Wholly Cats

With Billie Holiday: He Ain't Got Rhythm, I Must Have That Man, This Year's Kisses, Why Was I Born?

Not very much, indeed. That additional Lady Be Good that Iverson posted can be added to this list. Is there anything else?

Edited August 31, 2009 by John L

[bichos]

I was, curious, too, about where he found the Basie/Goodman/Young version of Lady Be Good (which is different from the Spirituals to Swing jam?)

I am too! I don't seem to have this version in my collection either, and I thought that my early Pres collection was virtually complete. Does anybody know anything about this track? It is not included on either the Lester Young or Count Basie Masters of Jazz series. I imagine that it was probably in the Benny Goodman Masters of Jazz series, and was therefore left off of the other two.

could it be this one?: it´s on the masters of jazz vol. 8 (count basie) track 12 from a camel caravan broadcast, november 15, 1938.

keep boppin´

marcel

[JSngry]

That's Basie's tempo, Basie's arrangement, Basie's ensemble sound. Why do we assume that Iverson is correct in calling it Goodman's band?

[jeffcrom]

I am virtually positive that there were no studio recordings of Lester Young sitting in with the Goodman big band.

Young recorded with Goodman's big band in the studio on March 9, 1938. The only tune from the session I have in my collection is "Ti-Pi-Tin," on which Lester plays a nice solo. There may be a live version of this, too, but the one I've heard is definitely a studio track, and the session is listed in the Rust discography. The other tunes from this date are:

Please Be Kind

oooOO-Oh Boom!

Always and Always

Make Believe

The Blue Room

[John L]

could it be this one?: it´s on the masters of jazz vol. 8 (count basie) track 12 from a camel caravan broadcast, november 15, 1938.

keep boppin´

marcel

That's Basie's tempo, Basie's arrangement, Basie's ensemble sound. Why do we assume that Iverson is correct in calling it Goodman's band

Young recorded with Goodman's big band in the studio on March 9, 1938. The only tune from the session I have in my collection is "Ti-Pi-Tin," on which Lester plays a nice solo

Yes, yes, and yes! Thank you very much for your inputs. The mystery is solved. I was looking only for tracks with Benny Goodman, and therefore did not think to listen through all the live versions of Lady Be Good from the Basie band. This Pres solo indeed comes from a live recording of the Basie band without Benny Goodman, and was included on the Count Basie Masters of Jazz series.

Jeff is absolutely correct about Ti-Pi-Tin being a studio recording. I don't know why I had in my mind that it was a live broadcast. I assume that Pres does not solo on any of the other tracks from this session, as they would have otherwise also been included in the Lester Young Masters of Jazz series.

Thanks again for the inputs.

[Lazaro Vega]

I'm looking at my LP of "Early Bird" and the only "Lady Be Good" is the Wichita transcription. There was an additional LBG on the CD?

[JSngry]

Yep. It was released in America on Stash, iirc.

[John L]

Actually, the 1940 Bird solo on Lady Be Good examined by Iverson is from the one and only Lady Be Good track on both the "Early Bird" LP and CD (Nov. 30, 1940 from the Trocadero Ballroom, Witchita) Iverson calls it a "small group." I guess than the Witchita Octet might barely qualify as "small." If there is any other Bird performance of Lady Be Good with McShann, it must have been discovered VERY recently.

[JSngry]

Yeah, that's right...I was thinking off the top of my head about the Stash CD that included both the Wichita gig + a airshot of a set of Bird w/the full McShann orchestra.

[Ethan Iverson]

Hello Organissimo!

I can see when you discuss DTM by my blog stats. I’m sorry about the confusion and time-wasting my sloppy writing has engendered.

To clear up a couple of errors, the Charlie Parker 1940 LBG is not at a dance. (I lazily looked at this webpage http://www.jazzdisco.org/charlie-parker/discography/ and copied “Trocadero Ballroom” into my notes.) It is from the Wichita transcriptions made at KFBI. Lewis Porter told me this late last week but I’m just now fixing it. You can get this amazing track on the ESP box “Bird in Time” or on “Early Bird” on Stash. Yes, it’s an octet, not a small group--I guess I meant it wasn’t the full McShann band.

As for the LBG I called “Young and Basie with Goodman’s band,” that is listed on page 80 of Büchmann-Møller’s “You’ve Got to Be Original, Man!” as COUNT BASIE ALL-STARS WITH BENNY GOODMAN ORCHESTRA. Most of the other horns present are from Goodman including Harry James and Bud Freeman. Buck Clayton, Herschel Evans, Walter Page and Jo Jones are the other Basie members. I’m not sure of the issues of this; indeed, Büchmann-Møller marks it “unissued.” Loren Schoenberg introduced me to this track and I called it what he called it in conversation--however I doubt he would have been so casual when writing about it. I should have been more clear.

I don’t expect to become a regular poster here but I may reach in and ask a question sometimes when I’m having trouble finding something out. Thanks for reading--and for keeping me on my toes!!

[Lazaro Vega]

Thanks for the long look into Lester Young -- your larger points were very much appreciated, and the work of transcribing all that, too. As mentioned last Saturday morning we strung together an hour's worth of Lady Be Goods based on your blog, which is why I was trying to find all the stuff.....

There is, by the way, a minute and 14 second fragment of Lady Be Good by Bird on the Stash CD: but it is the Wichita transcription which his so famous. That, in the end, is the one we played on the radio as it is insightful into Bird's early "wrestling" with the music of Young and Coleman Hawkins.

[jeffcrom]

Hello Organissimo!

I don’t expect to become a regular poster here but I may reach in and ask a question sometimes when I’m having trouble finding something out. Thanks for reading--and for keeping me on my toes!!

Thanks for the impressive dose of Pres - I'm enjoying going through it.

[Guy Berger]

Great to have you aboard, Ethan - we will welcome your occasional (or more) dropping-in.

Hello Organissimo!

I can see when you discuss DTM by my blog stats. I'm sorry about the confusion and time-wasting my sloppy writing has engendered.

To clear up a couple of errors, the Charlie Parker 1940 LBG is not at a dance. (I lazily looked at this webpage http://www.jazzdisco.org/charlie-parker/discography/ and copied "Trocadero Ballroom" into my notes.) It is from the Wichita transcriptions made at KFBI. Lewis Porter told me this late last week but I'm just now fixing it. You can get this amazing track on the ESP box "Bird in Time" or on "Early Bird" on Stash. Yes, it's an octet, not a small group--I guess I meant it wasn't the full McShann band.

As for the LBG I called "Young and Basie with Goodman's band," that is listed on page 80 of Büchmann-Møller's "You've Got to Be Original, Man!" as COUNT BASIE ALL-STARS WITH BENNY GOODMAN ORCHESTRA. Most of the other horns present are from Goodman including Harry James and Bud Freeman. Buck Clayton, Herschel Evans, Walter Page and Jo Jones are the other Basie members. I'm not sure of the issues of this; indeed, Büchmann-Møller marks it "unissued." Loren Schoenberg introduced me to this track and I called it what he called it in conversation--however I doubt he would have been so casual when writing about it. I should have been more clear.

I don't expect to become a regular poster here but I may reach in and ask a question sometimes when I'm having trouble finding something out. Thanks for reading--and for keeping me on my toes!!