2009-2010 Hot Stove Thread

[PHILLYQ]

I wasn't aware that Kate and Alex had split the sheets. Not sure what impact that will have on Mr. Rod. I don't think he's going to have any trouble finding women. Apparently, he was in Florida over the weekend partying hardy with not one but two women. Still, you have to wonder what went wrong. Maybe Kate got tired of fooling around under the gaze of the picture that Alex keeps at the head of his bed. If I understand correctly, it's an A-Rod centaur. Although I don't know for sure, I'm assuming that he's is the front half and not the rear, although who's to say. One can only hope for his sake that he has better taste in women that he does in art. Word in the NY gossip columns is that she adored the spotlightat Yankee Stadium...spotlight at

W

Edited December 23, 2009 by PHILLYQ

[Brad]

I wasn't aware that Kate and Alex had split the sheets. Not sure what impact that will have on Mr. Rod. I don't think he's going to have any trouble finding women. Apparently, he was in Florida over the weekend partying hardy with not one but two women. Still, you have to wonder what went wrong. Maybe Kate got tired of fooling around under the gaze of the picture that Alex keeps at the head of his bed. If I understand correctly, it's an A-Rod centaur. Although I don't know for sure, I'm assuming that he's is the front half and not the rear, although who's to say. One can only hope for his sake that he has better taste in women that he does in art.

Maybe her mom told her to finally wake up

[Matthew]

According to an ESPN report:

A baseball official familiar with the talks says the Toronto Blue Jays are close to acquiring former No. 1 draft choice Brandon Morrow from the Seattle Mariners for fellow reliever Brandon League and a prospect.

I really would hate to see Brandon Morrow go, I think he has the talent to be a very good starting pitcher. That also would make the second no.1 Mariner daft pick to be traded, with Phillippe Aumont going in the Lee trade. Jack Zduriencik is really cleaning out everything that Bill Bavasi left behind.

[Matthew]

So, Boston went ahead and signed Adrian Beltre for third this year. An okay deal, though I think Beltre will put up better numbers than expected, but it will be interesting to see how he handles the pressure of Boston, after easy press in LA & Seattle. Just think, in about seven weeks, spring training starts -- I'm so sick of football.

[zen archer]

So, Boston went ahead and signed Adrian Beltre for third this year. An okay deal, though I think Beltre will put up better numbers than expected, but it will be interesting to see how he handles the pressure of Boston, after easy press in LA & Seattle. Just think, in about seven weeks, spring training starts -- I'm so sick of football.

And the Sox traded Kotchman to the Mariners.

[ghost of miles]

So, Boston went ahead and signed Adrian Beltre for third this year. An okay deal, though I think Beltre will put up better numbers than expected, but it will be interesting to see how he handles the pressure of Boston, after easy press in LA & Seattle. Just think, in about seven weeks, spring training starts -- I'm so sick of football.

I can't wait! Boston and Seattle have done a lot to strengthen themselves in the off-season. I think the Yanks have improved themselves as well, though the left-field question is still out there (and it doesn't look like Johnny Damon will be coming back, which Pinstripe Alley tends to think is probably a good thing, overall...but I like what Damon brings to the team and still hope he comes back for 1-2 more years).

[Dave James]

Andre Dawson was the only former player elected to the Hall of Fame today.

[Matthew]

I would not be surprised to see Damon back in pinstripes this year, seems to have priced himself out of the market, and he's not getting too much interest. Maybe a two year, 18 million contract (if even that). You can't steal third for ever.

I was very surprised that Alamar did not get in, but next year he'll make it, and it's a shame that Lee Smith keeps getting turned down, in his prime, he was lights out. Barry Larkin deserves to be in also, as well as the most overlooked player from the 1970's Dave Conception (Dave Parker also from that era), he was a fantastic player on those Big Red Machine teams.

[ghost of miles]

I would not be surprised to see Damon back in pinstripes this year, seems to have priced himself out of the market, and he's not getting too much interest. Maybe a two year, 18 million contract (if even that). You can't steal third for ever.

Not even that indeed. Cashman offered him a 2-year, $14 million dollar deal a couple of weeks ago...he and Boras came back with 2 years and 20 million and Cashman said forget it, we're signing Nick Johnson. Rumor now is that Cashman wouldn't be willing to offer more than 1 year and 6 million. Some talk that the Braves might have some interest, but I have to think that JD is kicking himself for turning down Cashman's original offer; I can't really see anybody else offering him that much.

[Matthew]

I would not be surprised to see Damon back in pinstripes this year, seems to have priced himself out of the market, and he's not getting too much interest. Maybe a two year, 18 million contract (if even that). You can't steal third for ever.

Not even that indeed. Cashman offered him a 2-year, $14 million dollar deal a couple of weeks ago...he and Boras came back with 2 years and 20 million and Cashman said forget it, we're signing Nick Johnson. Rumor now is that Cashman wouldn't be willing to offer more than 1 year and 6 million. Some talk that the Braves might have some interest, but I have to think that JD is kicking himself for turning down Cashman's original offer; I can't really see anybody else offering him that much.

Plus, Damon's game is tailor made for the new Yankee Stadium. Yeah, Boras didn't do either Damon or Beltre any favors this off season.

[Brad]

Andre Dawson was the only former player elected to the Hall of Fame today.

Undeserving in my opinion. Not HOF caliber.

[BERIGAN]

Andre Dawson was the only former player elected to the Hall of Fame today.

Undeserving in my opinion. Not HOF caliber.

Well, his OBP. is low and that of course seems to be everything these days, but he won 8 gold Gloves...people rarely ran on his arm...and had more RBI's than

Rogers Hornsby, Harmon Killebrew, Al Kaline, Jake Beckley, Jim Thome(So far), Willie McCovey, Fred McGriff, Willie Stargell, Harry Heilmann, Joe DiMaggio , Jeff Bagwell , Tris Speaker, Sam Crawford, Jeff Kent, Carlos Delgado or Mickey Mantle...all people in the top 50 RBI men of all time.

Does that make him as good, if not better than them??? No...of course Dimaggio would have driven in more if not for WW2. We all know Mantle would have driven in more if not for the bad knees...and the alcoholism.

But, this article points out that Dawson had 12 operations during his career. That horrible turf in Montreal really hurt his speed, (Speed was gone by 28)and had to effect his power to a point, yet as the writer from that same article said, "He still stole more than 300 bases to go with his 438 home runs. Along with Willie Mays and Barry Bonds, he's one of three major leaguers to accomplish the feat."

And He did it without what Bonds used to help him(Though I am sure he would have still reached those numbers anyway)

I think what Bonds, Sosa, and McGuire did unfortunately makes numbers like Dawson and others put up, look less impressive.

I remember what a feared hitter he was, even after the knees were all but ruined. The MVP year with the last place Cubs??? 49 HR's 137 RBI's Next highest totals??? Keith Moreland, 27 Hrs 88 RBis . No one else even drove in more than 63. The year after the MVP, 24 HR's 79 RBI's, hit .303. Looks pretty so-so. But, 2nd highest B.A., tops in Hr's and RBI's The year after that(1989) he only played 118 games, 2 RBI's less than team leader than Mark Grace...

Last year with the Expos, why he only hit 20 HR's and drove in only 78 RBI's. Well, still tops on that team.

And remember what a huge stadium that joke of a park was???

What's my point??? Well, except for a few years in Montreal, he was surrounded by pretty motley crew of players in Montreal and Chicago. Oh sure, Ryne Sandburg and Tim Raines were teammates, but not big RBI guys, no one to really protect him.

I think if you compare him to his contemporaries, he is a HOF'er.

And comparing his 2774 Hits,(45th all time) 438 HR's (36th all time) 1591 RBI's (34th all time) are all HOF numbers, IMO.

[Brad]

Still not convinced. You can make number do anything and I don't think the test is to compare him to his contemporaries but to other HOF-ers. Also, choosing a person for the HOF reminds me of the Potter Stewart comment about obscenity: "I can't define it but I know it when I see it." For a person to belong in the Hall, you shouldn't have to think twice about it. Someone like Gibson or Mays, you don't even give it a second thought. If I have to do that with someone like Dawson, sorry not a HOF'er. That's for special people.

[Dave James]

Still not convinced. You can make number do anything and I don't think the test is to compare him to his contemporaries but to other HOF-ers. Also, choosing a person for the HOF reminds me of the Potter Stewart comment about obscenity: "I can't define it but I know it when I see it." For a person to belong in the Hall, you shouldn't have to think twice about it. Someone like Gibson or Mays, you don't even give it a second thought. If I have to do that with someone like Dawson, sorry not a HOF'er. That's for special people.

Actually, the guideline for HOF voters is to compare those who are eligible with their contemporaries. The game changed so much from era to era, that it's not thought fair to do evaluations on any other basis. Consider the so-called dead ball era, or the importance or relief pitching and the closer, or changes in equipment. Just to give you an example of how much things change, did you know that outfielders routinely left their gloves on the field at the end of an inning until 1954?

Edited January 8, 2010 by Dave James

[Quincy]

Still not convinced. You can make number do anything and I don't think the test is to compare him to his contemporaries but to other HOF-ers.

Okay, if Jim Rice, Tony Perez, Orlando Cepeda, Ralph Kiner, Herb Pennock, Don Drysdale, (love him but) Catfish Hunter, Bruce Sutter, Bill Mazerowski, Pee Wee Reese (I could go on) are HOFers, The Hawk sure as hell is too. I have no problem with people who want tougher standards, but given the above criteria you gave I think his selection isn't worse than most of the above.

Some talk about what cap he'll wear as he was an Expo for 11 years and a Cub for 10, but I'd think (& hope) it's the Expo hat. The steals came from those years, and that's what made him such a badass (along with the arm.) I hope Raines gets in someday as I think he was in some ways even better (though their roles were different.) Being the 2nd greatest lead off man should count for something.

[Brad]

Still not convinced. You can make number do anything and I don't think the test is to compare him to his contemporaries but to other HOF-ers. Also, choosing a person for the HOF reminds me of the Potter Stewart comment about obscenity: "I can't define it but I know it when I see it." For a person to belong in the Hall, you shouldn't have to think twice about it. Someone like Gibson or Mays, you don't even give it a second thought. If I have to do that with someone like Dawson, sorry not a HOF'er. That's for special people.

Actually, the guideline for HOF voters is to compare those who are eligible with their contemporaries. The game changed so much from era to era, that it's not thought fair to do evaluations on any other basis. Consider the so-called dead ball era, or the importance or relief pitching and the closer, or changes in equipment. Just to give you an example of how much things change, did you know that outfielders routinely left their gloves on the field at the end of an inning until 1954?

Yes, I knew that from way back when.

Still not convinced. You can make number do anything and I don't think the test is to compare him to his contemporaries but to other HOF-ers.

Okay, if Jim Rice, Tony Perez, Orlando Cepeda, Ralph Kiner, Herb Pennock, Don Drysdale, (love him but) Catfish Hunter, Bruce Sutter, Bill Mazerowski, Pee Wee Reese (I could go on) are HOFers, The Hawk sure as hell is too. I have no problem with people who want tougher standards, but given the above criteria you gave I think his selection isn't worse than most of the above.

Some talk about what cap he'll wear as he was an Expo for 11 years and a Cub for 10, but I'd think (& hope) it's the Expo hat. The steals came from those years, and that's what made him such a badass (along with the arm.) I hope Raines gets in someday as I think he was in some ways even better (though their roles were different.) Being the 2nd greatest lead off man should count for something.

I agree his selection isn't worse than those but of the above group I would only include Kiner, Drysdale and Sutter. The rest are good to very good players, just not HOF in my view. There are some guys who shouldn't be in good and probably should be removed like Rabbit Maranville and the Scooter.

[ghost of miles]

I would not be surprised to see Damon back in pinstripes this year, seems to have priced himself out of the market, and he's not getting too much interest. Maybe a two year, 18 million contract (if even that). You can't steal third for ever.

Not even that indeed. Cashman offered him a 2-year, $14 million dollar deal a couple of weeks ago...he and Boras came back with 2 years and 20 million and Cashman said forget it, we're signing Nick Johnson. Rumor now is that Cashman wouldn't be willing to offer more than 1 year and 6 million. Some talk that the Braves might have some interest, but I have to think that JD is kicking himself for turning down Cashman's original offer; I can't really see anybody else offering him that much.

Plus, Damon's game is tailor made for the new Yankee Stadium. Yeah, Boras didn't do either Damon or Beltre any favors this off season.

Speculation continues to percolate that Damon will return to the Yanks, but that's all it is at this point--speculation. A reporter talked with Damon a couple of days ago, and it sounds like Damon still wants 10 million a year. No way IMO that NY brings him back at that level, even for a 1-year deal, and no way that anybody else will give him that kind of money.

Edited January 11, 2010 by ghost of miles

[Brad]

Article in today's Times about what it takes to be a Hall of Famer: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/sports/baseball/11hall.html?ref=baseball

[ghost of miles]

MLB slaps Florida Marlins over use of revenue-sharing funds.

[ghost of miles]

Report: Yankees reaping huge financial gains from trademarking of "Yankees suck" phrase

[Matthew]

Report: Yankees reaping huge financial gains from trademarking of "Yankees suck" phrase

True story:

Dan had designed a t-shirt with a "Yankees Suck" logo after the World Series, but then it was taken down by the website because it felt having the Yankee logo on it was a copyright infringement. I really wanted to buy two and get one as a Christmas gift for you David.

[ghost of miles]

Report: Yankees reaping huge financial gains from trademarking of "Yankees suck" phrase

True story:

Dan had designed a t-shirt with a "Yankees Suck" logo after the World Series, but then it was taken down by the website because it felt having the Yankee logo on it was a copyright infringement. I really wanted to buy two and get one as a Christmas gift for you David.

Darn... I could've "re-gifted" it to my younger brother!

BTW, Johnny Damon to Detroit? Sports Illustrated says it's a possibility.

[WorldB3]

Andre Dawson was the only former player elected to the Hall of Fame today.

Undeserving in my opinion. Not HOF caliber.

I think he was deserving, more deserving than say Rafael Palmeiro who has the 3k/500 stats. Dawson back in his day was a compete bad ass and usually the best player on the field on any given day. Palmeiro was just a guy who put up numbers when everybody else was.

For Big Mac I still say no as I feel he was a one tool player but I am sort of moving towards maybe if you take into account when he played everybody only cared about On Base Percentage and Power, his HR to AB ratio was at Ruthian levels for a good period of time.

[ghost of miles]

Now SI reports that Detroit is counting on Austin Jackson (Yankee prospect they acquired via trade) to play and that they won't be signing any more outfielders--seems to put the kibosh on any chance of Damon going to Detroit.

[BERIGAN]

My Dad found this old St. Louis newspaper Sunday Mag on the Retirement of Stan Musical. Don't have a working scanner, so lets see if a digital camera is adequate in reproducing it.