Astrud Gilberto

[DukeCity]

Agreed. I referred to Jackie's "intonation problems", but to be fair maybe there aren't problems at all. Maybe he's playing it where he hears it. I don't think with him that it's necessarily deficient instrumental skills!

Maybe Astrud's singing it where she hears it too?

Edited for spelling.

+1 for dealing with people "hearing" the pitch in different places. My first thought was Charlie Rouse. Almost always riding pretty high on the pitch, it wouldn't sound like Charlie Rouse otherwise!

I don't know the Evans/Gilberto collaboration. It's going on my list...

[kh1958]

I don't get the interest, when there are so many talented singers in Portuguese and Spanish. She's unlistenable.

[seeline]

I don't get the interest, when there are so many talented singers in Portuguese and Spanish. She's unlistenable.

Edited December 29, 2008 by seeline

[AllenLowe]

she lives in a friend's condo complex in Philly; he recently spotted her at some market, I think - she's still tall, but apparently not so tan and lovely - but she still goes walking, but the only time she goes "ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" is when she has a sore throat - don't know about the people she passes, however -

Edited December 29, 2008 by AllenLowe

[mjzee]

I think she does a lot with her instrument.

[Big Al]

She made the most of the situation she was placed in; can't fault her for succeeding on some level.

That said, I have yet to hear another singer perform "Ipanema" so perfectly, IMHO. She captures the simplicity and sweetness of that song, where others turn it into something either more schmaltzy or schlocky (Sinatra came close, but he too was working with Jobim).

Small doses is enough for me as well, but oh my those doses.... her rendition of "It Might as Well Be Spring" with Stan Getz..... whoa!!!

[Teasing the Korean]

Forget the Brazil stuff. Her version of "Beginnings" KICKS.

[GA Russell]

She'll always be one of my favorites. Nostalgia? Maybe.

And I think I have enough of her albums that I don't want any more. but I don't think I'll ever get tired of her first solo LP, called The Astrud Gilberto Album.

PS - And her voice was unique, although there came along some copycats like Wanda de Sah.

Some singers are great interpreters with questionable voices. I rate Astrud as a great voice with little or no interpretation skill.

Edited December 31, 2008 by GA Russell

[seeline]

PS - And her voice was unique, although there came along some copycats like Wanda de Sah.

Hmm... Wanda Sá (formerly known as Wanda de Sa/Sah) isn't exactly what I'd call a "copycat." She's pretty highly regarded in Brazil, too.

From her AllBrazilianMusic bio. -

The bossa nova fan traded São Paulo for Rio de Janeiro. At age 13, she was having guitar lessons with Roberto Menescal. At age 19, she released "Inútil Paisagem" (Tom Jobim and Aloysio de Oliveira). Her debut album, "Wanda Vagamente", came out in 1964. Then she joined Sérgio Mendes' group Brasil 65, along with Jorge Ben and Rosinha de Valença, playing the college circuit in the USA. She was singing in a nightclub and was spotted by Dave Cavanaugh, Nat King Cole's and Frank Sinatra's agent. Wanda made three albums in the U.S.; two with Brasil 65 and the solo "Softly". Back to Brazil, she performed with Baden Powell, Vinicius de Moraes and Bossa 3. She recorded with Paul Desmond in 1969, in his album, "Hot Summer", in New York. Wanda was married to Edu Lobo for 12 years, choosing to take care of her kids and giving guitar lessons. By the late 1980s, she met again with her old teacher, Menescal, and made a comeback. In addition to shows with Menescal and Miéle, she recorded the album "Brasileiras", with Celia Vaz in 1994.

Astrud was not a singer. João insisted that she sing when the 1st Getz/Gilberto album was being recorded. The rest is history.

Edited December 31, 2008 by seeline

[AllenLowe]

"I think she does a lot with her instrument."

that's the kind of smutty remark that has given this place such a bad reputation - at least according to Weizen -

though I did hear that she did a few things with Getz's instrument -

Edited December 31, 2008 by AllenLowe

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I've got the album she made with Stanley Turrentine, of course. Stanley's fine. Astrud is weak, but we've all lived long enough hearing weak singers all the damn time to not get too upset if one sneaks into our record collections, haven't we?

MG

[AllenLowe]

well, to quote Al Haig, "I hate singers. They all want to be actresses."

[AllenLowe]

well, to quote Al Haig, "I hate singers. They all want to be actresses."

[JSngry]

well, to quote Al Haig, "I hate singers. They all want to be actresses."

And they need to be, don't they? Unless they're gonna go the Patti Waters and/or Betty Carter routes, and some might say that the drama inherent in those approaches is a form of "acting" in itself...

As for Astrud, hell, not a great "singer", but history does what it will do, and damn if she and her thing ain't some kinda iconic in spite of that. It's out of the hands of logic, reason, taste, or anything, really. that voice, that sound...it has made its place, and there ain't nothing gonna change that as long as the current "pop culture" paradigm stays in place either in part or in toto.

Myself, I like some of the moments she's had, and am pretty much indifferent about the rest.

[AllenLowe]

he meant it literally; Haig coached a lot of singers and always got fed up with 1) temperament (very diva/leading lady) 2) lack of committment to the music (always looking for soap opera gigs). Only singer he had nice things to say about was Helen Merrill. Of course Haig may not be the best judge of women -

[JSngry]

Yeah, I feel his pain (thinking of the "Why not? That's how you did it last night" joke...).

Thank god for the exceptions though. There's enough of them that hope springs eternal, although not nearly as eternal as the bullshit.

A gig with a good singer, though (when/if you can find one) is a thing of joy. That human voice, hey, it's a groove, it is...

[medjuck]

I don't think the Evans/Gilberto project stands nearly as tall as the Miles, Merrill or Burrell collaborations, but I'm not quite sure I'd call it a waste of time. There are many very tasty "Gil Evans moments" (orchestrations, harmonic left turns, textural variations) in the arrangements that keep things interesting, IMHO.

......

I do enjoy the Evans recording quite a bit, though.

To be off-topic for a moment:

I'm just curious, Shrdlu- as an Evans fan (like myself) what you (or anyone else)thought of the "Quiet Nights" release? This one seems to divide both Miles and Gil fans, especially since it was apparently not intended for release by the artists.

EDIT: BTW, I agree about wishing for a Evans/Jobim project (as well as the Evans/Hendrix that never happened)

I like the 2 Al Cohen arrangements on "Look to the Rainbow" (the Evans/Gilberto record) too. As to Quiet Nights: My memory is that on the Lp release the sound was very thin. If you listen to this material on the Evans/Davis box set it sounds way better. I started listening to it again after I heard a vocal version (John Hendricks, I think) of one of the original songs from it.

And speaking of Evans projects that never happened: how about the ones with Prez and Louis Armstrong. Apparently Joe Glaser killed the one with Pops and the Grim Reaper the one with Prez. I loved Evans reaction which was something like "Lester wanted to the do record but I guess he wanted to die more."

[AllenLowe]

Armstrong told Evans to go see Glaser, but Glaser had no idea who Evans was, and kicked him out of his office -

[Teasing the Korean]

Astrud's Now Sound LPs are really good - nothing particularly Brazilian about them, except for the overall international/jet set aesthetic that is found in so much of the young adult music of that era.

It is interesting that the Brazilian stuff is what has remained in print, but not the now sound stuff. This gives a distorted picture of her as a "Brazilian" singer when in fact she was a pseudo-exotic pop singer, not unlike Claudine Longet.

So, I think she should be appreciated on her own terms - if at all - and not as something we expect her to be because of revisionist marketing.

[seeline]

"Revisionist"???? Do you mean how she's being marketed now, or in the 60s? (Am feeling somewhat confused here.)

Regardless of her aspirations (or lack thereof), I think she'll always be viewed through her association with João, in the US, at least. They made a hit single, after all... (But I completely agree that she was/is much more in the mode of people like Claudine Longet.)

To me, it's strange that Miucha (Chico Buarque's sister, mother of Bebel) and João lived here in the US, but somehow Miucha never really was on the radar - even after "Best of Two Worlds." Her voice is a little frayed now, but she's still a good singer.

Edited January 1, 2009 by seeline

[Teasing the Korean]

Revisionist in the way that she's being marketed now, i.e. keeping her first three or four early Verve albums in print (the ones with the bossa/Brazil bent) but not the other eight or so which are not particularly Brazilian. But I hear what you're saying, too.