2010-2011 Hot Stove Thread

[Tim McG]

The Giants do, however, have more Hall of Famers than any team in the league...even more than the Yankees

He's right.

Giants 23, Cards 16, Yanks 15, Cubs 14, ....

http://www.baseball-...f/hofstat.shtml

Something tells me that 10 years from now the Yankees will probably be pretty close to the Giants in HoFers. However, the Yanks will still have way more WS titles then the Giants.

Don't know where Baseball Almanac got their info. Wikipedia lists 18 Yankee players who entered the HoF as Yankees:

Yogi Berra, Earl Combs, Joe DiMaggio, Bill Dickey, Whitey Ford, Lou Gehrig, Lefy Gomez, Joe Gordon, Goose Goosage, Waite Hoyte, Regggie Jackson, Tony Lazzeri, Mickey Mantle, Herb Pennock, Phil Rizzuto, Red Ruffing, Babe Ruth, and Jack Chesbro (as a N.Y. Highlander, the team that evolved into the Yankees). Still not as many as the Giants, but more than Almanac gives credit for.

I never understood how Reggie Jackson gets called a Yankee on the basis of five years with NY out of a twenty-one year career....

Exactly.

He spent 9 years with the KC/Oakland A's then finished with the A's.

Go figure.

The Giants do, however, have more Hall of Famers than any team in the league...even more than the Yankees

He's right.

Giants 23, Cards 16, Yanks 15, Cubs 14, ....

http://www.baseball-...f/hofstat.shtml

Something tells me that 10 years from now the Yankees will probably be pretty close to the Giants in HoFers. However, the Yanks will still have way more WS titles then the Giants.

Don't know where Baseball Almanac got their info. Wikipedia lists 18 Yankee players who entered the HoF as Yankees:

Yogi Berra, Earl Combs, Joe DiMaggio, Bill Dickey, Whitey Ford, Lou Gehrig, Lefy Gomez, Joe Gordon, Goose Goosage, Waite Hoyte, Regggie Jackson, Tony Lazzeri, Mickey Mantle, Herb Pennock, Phil Rizzuto, Red Ruffing, Babe Ruth, and Jack Chesbro (as a N.Y. Highlander, the team that evolved into the Yankees). Still not as many as the Giants, but more than Almanac gives credit for.

I never understood how Reggie Jackson gets called a Yankee on the basis of five years with NY out of a twenty-one year career....

At that point in time, the Hall let players choose what team's hat they wanted to be inducted under. Reggie chose the Yankees. Later, when Dave Winfield chose to be inducted as a Padre - probably because he worked for the Padre organization after he retired, even though he played more years and put up higher numbers with the Yankees - the HoF decided that they would decide what team a player would be inducted as a member of.

To me, the whole thing is foolish. The player is inducted, not the team. Catfish Hunter, for example, couldn't decide whether he wanted to be inducted as an A or as a Yankee, so he was inducted without an insignia on his cap. I think that should be the way it's handled in all cases, especially today with free agency.

Personally, I think the HOF player should be linked to the team for which he played the most years.

Nobody would ever be foolish enough to say Willie Mays should be remembered as a NY Met, but that is the team he ended his career with as a player.

Edited December 25, 2010 by GoodSpeak

[papsrus]

Would it be fair to say Reggie had his greatest impact with the Yankees?

[Tim McG]

Would it be fair to say Reggie had his greatest impact with the Yankees?

Well, he did gain the nickname "Mr. October" in NY, but the A's won five AL pennants and two World Series Championships during his tenure. Including his 234 HRs and crazy OBP and SLG numbers in 1969 and 1973. He was also an MVP.

Additionally, he played five years with the Angels and but for Gene Mauch's idiot managing, he almost put the team in the 1986 WS.

Edited December 25, 2010 by GoodSpeak

[Quincy]

Would it be fair to say Reggie had his greatest impact with the Yankees?

Well, he did gain the nickname "Mr. October" in NY, but the A's won five AL pennants and two World Series Championships during his tenure. Including his 234 HRs and crazy OBP and SLG numbers in 1969 and 1973. He was also an MVP.

Additionally, he played five years with the Angels and but for Gene Mauch's idiot managing, he almost put the team in the 1986 WS.

Actually they won 3 World Series with his years with the A's. In '72 he tore his hamstring while stealing home for the tying run in the deciding Game 5 vs. the Tigers. So while he missed playing in the '72 series he obviously was a huge part of that title. I think he should have gone in as an A but Reggie tended make an impact wherever he played. And if you're able to hit 3 HRs in a World Series game I suppose you deserve to pick your own hat.

[Dan Gould]

Additionally, he played five years with the Angels and but for Gene Mauch's idiot managing, he almost put the team in the 1986 WS.

He slugged only .408 that season, with 18 homers and 58 RBI. I'd say Grinch, Decinces and a young Wally Joyner had more to do with that team nearly reaching the World Series.

As for "idiot managing" I have no clue what you're talking about. Sometimes the most obvious moves just don't work out. Who could predict that Gary Lucas would plunk Rich Gedman? He hadn't hit anyone in over 250 innings covering four seasons. And Donnie Moore?

[BERIGAN]

The Giants do, however, have more Hall of Famers than any team in the league...even more than the Yankees

He's right.

Giants 23, Cards 16, Yanks 15, Cubs 14, ....

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofstat.shtml

Something tells me that 10 years from now the Yankees will probably be pretty close to the Giants in HoFers. However, the Yanks will still have way more WS titles then the Giants.

Don't know where Baseball Almanac got their info. Wikipedia lists 18 Yankee players who entered the HoF as Yankees:

Yogi Berra, Earl Combs, Joe DiMaggio, Bill Dickey, Whitey Ford, Lou Gehrig, Lefy Gomez, Joe Gordon, Goose Goosage, Waite Hoyte, Regggie Jackson, Tony Lazzeri, Mickey Mantle, Herb Pennock, Phil Rizzuto, Red Ruffing, Babe Ruth, and Jack Chesbro (as a N.Y. Highlander, the team that evolved into the Yankees). Still not as many as the Giants, but more than Almanac gives credit for.

Here is another link that is probably more qualified than most :

Baseball HOF

And that list shows 22 yankees!!!! 17 Cards, but one is Whitey Herzog

25 Giants, with a few manager/exec types thrown in...

[Quincy]

(Talking '86 Angels) I'd say Grinch

Nice Christmas typo. Bobby Grich wasn't green, nor did he steal Christmas presents from the children of Whoville. Or if he did he got away with it since TMZ wasn't around back then.

[Quincy]

I typically get a couple of packs of baseball cards in my stocking. I must have been bad for Santa to include this one.

[Dave James]

I typically get a couple of packs of baseball cards in my stocking. I must have been bad for Santa to include this one.

At some point, that could be a card that develops some value. Certainly worth hanging onto.

With respect to Reggie and the HOF, if you ask most baseball fans the team with which they identify him as a player, I'm guessing it would be the Yankees.

[Brad]

Additionally, he played five years with the Angels and but for Gene Mauch's idiot managing, he almost put the team in the 1986 WS.

He slugged only .408 that season, with 18 homers and 58 RBI. I'd say Grinch, Decinces and a young Wally Joyner had more to do with that team nearly reaching the World Series.

As for "idiot managing" I have no clue what you're talking about. Sometimes the most obvious moves just don't work out. Who could predict that Gary Lucas would plunk Rich Gedman? He hadn't hit anyone in over 250 innings covering four seasons. And Donnie Moore?

I'd have to agree. Although my attention was fixed on the Mets during the post season, the Angels and Mauch just seemed unlucky during the ALCS. Donnie Moore never recovered, very sad.

[JSngry]

With respect to Reggie and the HOF, if you ask most baseball fans the team with which they identify him as a player, I'm guessing it would be the Yankees.

That might depend on their age...I remember him first as a player with the A's, for whom he was already "high profile" before his move to NY, or Anaheim, or....Baltimore!

But the then (and now?) NYC-centricity of all media, especially the sports media, certainly magnified his not inconsiderable accomplishments as a Yankee, and I suspect that that ongoing media spotlight contributes to younger fans remembering him as a Yankee. That's not unjustifiable either, since that is where he became "Mister October". But in my memory, my reflexive memory is of him as an A, because that team ws way, waaaay cool, and if you weren't around then to experience the "shock" about their looks and attitude, you'd be hard-pressed to fully understand. But I was, and I distinctly remember Reggie as a big part of them, outspoken even then, an outspoken, "Alex Johnson with real skills" type guy.

[Brad]

I would say it's both: Oakland As and Yankees.

[Quincy]

I would say it's both: Oakland As and Yankees.

Yup. He made the cover of Time magazine as an Athletic. Wearing #9 too. The Mustache Gang was a colorful team that won 3 in a row. The O's and later A's got to 3 in a row but only won one, so they're a legendary team and Reggie was the top dog of the hitters. It was the success with the A's along with the big splash he made with the Yankees that earned him his "Mr. October" nickname. While the 3 home runs in Game 6 were a mindblower, I don't know if he would have gotten that nickname without all of those series with the A's too.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Quincy

[Dan Gould]

He didn't go to Baltimore, he returned to Oakland for one final, sad season at age 41.

And his strikeout total means that he spent five seasons, out of 20, never even putting the ball in play.

He was an asshole from jump.

[JSngry]

He didn't go to Baltimore...

He played the 1976 season as an Oriole.

It's the year that time has forgotten.

[Dan Gould]

Obviously my bad, I was thrown off by your listing of Baltimore after NY and Anaheim.

[Dave James]

Thought y'all might find this interesting:

During the World Series against the Dodgers, Munson was interviewed, and suggested that Jackson, because of his past post-season performances, might be the better interview subject. "Go ask Mister October", he said, giving Jackson a nickname that would stick. (In Oakland, he had been known as "Jax" and "Buck.")

[JSngry]

But the name "Jack Buck" was already taken!

[Quincy]

Thought y'all might find this interesting:

During the World Series against the Dodgers, Munson was interviewed, and suggested that Jackson, because of his past post-season performances, might be the better interview subject. "Go ask Mister October", he said, giving Jackson a nickname that would stick. (In Oakland, he had been known as "Jax" and "Buck.")

Yup, and that happened before he went on his home run tear for the Yanks in the World Series. It's a better and shorter nickname than "The Straw That Stirs The Drink."

[paul secor]

Thought y'all might find this interesting:

During the World Series against the Dodgers, Munson was interviewed, and suggested that Jackson, because of his past post-season performances, might be the better interview subject. "Go ask Mister October", he said, giving Jackson a nickname that would stick. (In Oakland, he had been known as "Jax" and "Buck.")

Yup, and that happened before he went on his home run tear for the Yanks in the World Series. It's a better and shorter nickname than "The Straw That Stirs The Drink."

Munson was not Reggie's biggest fan. I always liked the Catfish Hunter story where he said - Reggie's a great guy. He'd give you the shirt off his back. And then call a press conference to let everyone know that he'd done it.

Edited December 26, 2010 by paul secor

[Dave James]

Thought y'all might find this interesting:

During the World Series against the Dodgers, Munson was interviewed, and suggested that Jackson, because of his past post-season performances, might be the better interview subject. "Go ask Mister October", he said, giving Jackson a nickname that would stick. (In Oakland, he had been known as "Jax" and "Buck.")

Yup, and that happened before he went on his home run tear for the Yanks in the World Series. It's a better and shorter nickname than "The Straw That Stirs The Drink."

Munson was not Reggie's biggest fan. I always liked the Catfish Hunter story where he said - Reggie's a great guy. He'd give you the shirt off his back. And then call a press conference to let everyone know that he'd done it.

Reggie rarely wrote checks that his ego couldn't cash. Upon being signed by the Yankees, he referred to himself in an article in Sport Magazine as "The magnificence of me".

[JSngry]

I always liked "The Straw That Stirs The Drink" myself. Vaguely Sinatra-esque.

[Chalupa]

Back in '76 I was 12 years old living in the Maryland suburbs of D.C. and the Orioles

(and Reggie Jackson) were all I thought about that summer. However, I knew it was a one and done in Baltimore after he announced in an interview that if he played in NYC they would name a candy bar after him.

From Wiki...

Besides putting up monster numbers during his nine years with the Athletics, including 254 home runs, Jackson was also no stranger to controversy or conflict in Oakland. Sports author Dick Crouser wrote, "When the late Al Helfer was broadcasting the Oakland A's games, he was not too enthusiastic about Reggie Jackson's speed or his hustle. Once, with Jackson on third, teammate Rick Monday hit a long home run. 'Jackson should score easily on that one,' commented Helfer. Crouser also noted that, "Nobody seems to be neutral on Reggie Jackson. You're either a fan or a detractor." One-time teammate Darold Knowles would seem to be in the latter camp. Once when asked if Jackson was a hotdog (i.e. a show-off), he famously replied, "There isn't enough mustard in the world to cover Reggie Jackson."

[Tim McG]

Additionally, he played five years with the Angels and but for Gene Mauch's idiot managing, he almost put the team in the 1986 WS.

He slugged only .408 that season, with 18 homers and 58 RBI. I'd say Grinch, Decinces and a young Wally Joyner had more to do with that team nearly reaching the World Series.

As for "idiot managing" I have no clue what you're talking about. Sometimes the most obvious moves just don't work out. Who could predict that Gary Lucas would plunk Rich Gedman? He hadn't hit anyone in over 250 innings covering four seasons. And Donnie Moore?

He pulled Mike Witt with a two out, two run lead against Boston in the 9th. Witt was on cruise control. Moore had elbow problems. No. The biggest bonehead manuver in the history of pitching screw-ups came with Urbano Lugo who gave up the lead. An injured Moore gave up the winner in extra innings after the Angels got the lead back. And don't get me started on Moose Stubbing's stop sigh on Grich.

Fast rewind to 1982 when Gene "I can't win the big one" Mauch used a two man rotation to lose to the Brew-ha's. He blew it for Philly, too.

Gene Mauch is to managing playoff baseball what a wet firecracker is to a July 4th celebration: A big let down. He's all show, no go.

The Giants do, however, have more Hall of Famers than any team in the league...even more than the Yankees

He's right.

Giants 23, Cards 16, Yanks 15, Cubs 14, ....

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofstat.shtml

Something tells me that 10 years from now the Yankees will probably be pretty close to the Giants in HoFers. However, the Yanks will still have way more WS titles then the Giants.

Don't know where Baseball Almanac got their info. Wikipedia lists 18 Yankee players who entered the HoF as Yankees:

Yogi Berra, Earl Combs, Joe DiMaggio, Bill Dickey, Whitey Ford, Lou Gehrig, Lefy Gomez, Joe Gordon, Goose Goosage, Waite Hoyte, Regggie Jackson, Tony Lazzeri, Mickey Mantle, Herb Pennock, Phil Rizzuto, Red Ruffing, Babe Ruth, and Jack Chesbro (as a N.Y. Highlander, the team that evolved into the Yankees). Still not as many as the Giants, but more than Almanac gives credit for.

Here is another link that is probably more qualified than most :

Baseball HOF

And that list shows 22 yankees!!!! 17 Cards, but one is Whitey Herzog

25 Giants, with a few manager/exec types thrown in...

Look again.

Five of those Yankees weren't players.

Edited December 27, 2010 by GoodSpeak

[Dave James]

I still have a battered, much the worse for wear Reggie Bar in a plastic bag out in my freezer.