2010-2011 Hot Stove Thread

[JETman]

Not sure how Dave's letter is a sense of entitlement. He's just asking how they're going to improve the team. Seems like a natural question for a fan to act.

The Yankees are the only team in professional sports which EXPECTS to win EVERY year. Yankee fans have bought into this mentality big time, and have the audacity to feel cheated if they do not get this.

As a fellow Mets fan, I thought certainly you would understand this.

Well, the Yankees have a lot of money and go and spend it as they fit. In the past they would spend willy nilly. I'm not sure the sons feel that way. At any rate, I don't the management acts like that. I think what you're referring to are the fans. Yes, they act like that, which is why it's fun to seethem get their comeuppance once in a while. I have to say the fans on this Forum aren't like that, mostly the ones in the NY metro area.

Dave is! Most of the Yankee fans on this forum are NOT from the NY metro area. I do not get this, but hey, it's trendy to be a Yankee fan

[Dan Gould]

It was just as trendy when he was six years old in 1954.

[JETman]

It was just as trendy when he was six years old in 1954.

Yeah, so? What's your point?

[Dan Gould]

It was just as trendy when he was six years old in 1954.

Yeah, so? What's your point?

Why don't we just cut to the chase: Piss off.

[JETman]

It was just as trendy when he was six years old in 1954.

Yeah, so? What's your point?

Why don't we just cut to the chase: Piss off.

Didn't realize you were the king of this thread. I guess 2 championships in 92 years gives you a sort of sense of entitlement, eh?

[papsrus]

I think some of it is fed by the media. ESPN, for one, is very New York-centric.

Example: As soon as the Knicks start reeling off a few wins, suddenly they are an elite team, court-side tickets are going for $50,000 (for the Heat game, no shit) and ESPN is telling us all about the imagined, storied rivalries with the Celtics, the Heat, the Pacers. ... Sorry, but no. Or as they say in Boston, "Say what?"

When Milwaukee signs Greinke, it's in the news for a day, then gone. And it's mainly news-worthy to ESPN because the Yankees didn't get him, despite the fact that the Brewers suddenly became a pretty interesting team with him. If the Yankees had signed Greinke, we'd still be hearing about it. There would be footage of him landing in New York, we'd be hearing from his high school coach, and so on.

[J.A.W.]

It was just as trendy when he was six years old in 1954.

Yeah, so? What's your point?

Why don't we just cut to the chase: Piss off.

Didn't realize you were the king of this thread. I guess 2 championships in 92 years gives you a sort of sense of entitlement, eh?

OK, that's enough. If this continues the thread will be closed (like the Baseball Steroid thread).

[Dave James]

I was just trying to have a little fun, not start another thread war. In my defense, Dan is absolutely right. I have been a Yankee fan since I was six years old. I am a Yankee fan and I will always be a Yankee fan. As those who have been around these parts will attest, much of what I post is written with tongue firmly in cheek. The "letter" that started all this was completely fictitious, just a way for me to vent at New York's offseason inaction. I take exception to the idea that I have a sense of entitlement. If you've been a Yankee fan as long as I have, you know what it's like to win but you also know what it's like to lose. Sure I want to see my team do well - that's what being a fan is all about - but to call it entitlement is simply wrong.

[JSngry]

If you've been a Yankee fan as long as I have, you know what it's like to win but you also know what it's like to lose.

Hell, you learn that is you've been any kind of a sports fan for any length of time...or been alive for any length of time, really.

You know what I've never learned, though, even yet? How to sit through a full showing of Gone With The Wind.

Not that I really want to, mind you, I'm just saying...

[Tim McG]

I was just trying to have a little fun, not start another thread war. In my defense, Dan is absolutely right. I have been a Yankee fan since I was six years old. I am a Yankee fan and I will always be a Yankee fan. As those who have been around these parts will attest, much of what I post is written with tongue firmly in cheek. The "letter" that started all this was completely fictitious, just a way for me to vent at New York's offseason inaction. I take exception to the idea that I have a sense of entitlement. If you've been a Yankee fan as long as I have, you know what it's like to win but you also know what it's like to lose. Sure I want to see my team do well - that's what being a fan is all about - but to call it entitlement is simply wrong.

I agree.

However, it has been my experience that Yankees fans really don't know or fully appreciate the concept of "losing" at all. A 2nd or 3rd place finish is the worst I have seen out of this ballclub in decades. I can't even remember the last time the Yankees have had a sub-.500 record. Please correct me if I am wrong.

TBH, being a fan is just fine with me, but to bemoan a lack of action in the off season is, quite frankly, more than just a little [and I mean no offense here] off-putting to this long suffering Giants fan. 27 WS Championships hold no reasons to complain...about anything, my friend.

Just my two cents.

Edited December 22, 2010 by GoodSpeak

[Quincy]

I can't even remember the last time the Yankees have had a sub-.500 record. Please correct me if I am wrong.

While I generally agree with your sentiment that they've had a whole lot winning and not much experience with losing they did have a 4 year patch from '89 to '92 where they played losing baseball. Perhaps what sums it up best is 1990 when Andy Hawkins pitched a no-hitter for them and they lost. The '90 team lost 95 games and Steve Balboni was the DH. Oscar Azocar was given an OF job. They had high hopes for Roberto Kelly and Kevin Maas leading the way along with a broken down Mattingly. The starting rotation included Dave LaPoint. Had Tim Leary been Timothy at least the fans could have dosed themselves for the season and enjoyed the pretty colors rather than have to watch that team. Boy, I've probably planted the seeds of nightmares tonight for our organissimo Yankee fans. Sorry 'bout that guys.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Quincy

[paul secor]

As a Yankee fan, I'm looking forward to next season. Sometimes when things aren't a given, they can be more interesting.

[Dave James]

FWIW, between 1901 and the end of the 2010 season, the Yankees all-time W-L record is 9,670-7,361, a .568 winning percentage.

[Tim McG]

I can't even remember the last time the Yankees have had a sub-.500 record. Please correct me if I am wrong.

While I generally agree with your sentiment that they've had a whole lot winning and not much experience with losing they did have a 4 year patch from '89 to '92 where they played losing baseball. Perhaps what sums it up best is 1990 when Andy Hawkins pitched a no-hitter for them and they lost. The '90 team lost 95 games and Steve Balboni was the DH. Oscar Azocar was given an OF job. They had high hopes for Roberto Kelly and Kevin Maas leading the way along with a broken down Mattingly. The starting rotation included Dave LaPoint. Had Tim Leary been Timothy at least the fans could have dosed themselves for the season and enjoyed the pretty colors rather than have to watch that team. Boy, I've probably planted the seeds of nightmares tonight for our organissimo Yankee fans. Sorry 'bout that guys.

Thanks for the correction.

However, four years is not a big deal compared to the winning history of this team, IMHO. Hard to shed tears for a team with the successes they have had.

[Dave James]

However, four years is not a big deal compared to the winning history of this team, IMHO. Hard to shed tears for a team with the successes they have had.

I'm going to call and raise. The Giants all-time W-L record between 1883-2010 is 10436-8958, a .534 winning percentage. That's a whole .034 worse than the Yankees.

[BERIGAN]

Greinke to Brewers

Do teams like Kansas City or the Pirates even try to build a good team anymore? How about instead of a Luxury Tax, they have a Suckitude Tax, and for finishing under .500 for three years in a row, a team has to add 20 million to the pay roll. I'm sick and tired of these crappy teams not even trying to improve themselves.

Well, I have read recently that after the Greinke trade the Royals now have THE best players in the minors...the Pirates on the other hand...I really think they screwed up trading everyone and their brother a few years back...they had a half decent team, and adding a few players...but every year is starting from scratch....and of course they have been super cheap for years, and are only now starting to develop some good players....

[Tim McG]

However, four years is not a big deal compared to the winning history of this team, IMHO. Hard to shed tears for a team with the successes they have had.

I'm going to call and raise. The Giants all-time W-L record between 1883-2010 is 10436-8958, a .534 winning percentage. That's a whole .034 worse than the Yankees.

I'll see your raise and raise you again.

All that proves is, in the history of the game, the NL [the Senior Circuit] is a far more competitive league than it's weaker AL counterpart.

The NL West in recent years has been the provider of the WC and WS participants/winners.

Bottom line? The Yankees (27) have the WS Championships, the Giants (6) do not.

Edited December 23, 2010 by GoodSpeak

[Dave James]

Bottom line? The Yankees (27) have the WS Championships, the Giants (6) do not.

I can't help it if he Yankees used their wins more effectively than the Giants.

[Tim McG]

Bottom line? The Yankees (27) have the WS Championships, the Giants (6) do not.

I can't help it if he Yankees used their wins more effectively than the Giants.

True dat.

At any rate, you won't get any complaints from me about the Giants winning only 6 WS Championships in a NL record 19 tries. Boycotting in 1904 against the Boston Braves [because the owner thought the game wouldn't be competitive] kept the team from winning 7 WS Championships.

The Giants do, however, have more Hall of Famers than any team in the league...even more than the Yankees

Edited December 24, 2010 by GoodSpeak

[Chalupa]

The Giants do, however, have more Hall of Famers than any team in the league...even more than the Yankees

He's right.

Giants 23, Cards 16, Yanks 15, Cubs 14, ....

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofstat.shtml

Something tells me that 10 years from now the Yankees will probably be pretty close to the Giants in HoFers. However, the Yanks will still have way more WS titles then the Giants.

[paul secor]

The Giants do, however, have more Hall of Famers than any team in the league...even more than the Yankees

He's right.

Giants 23, Cards 16, Yanks 15, Cubs 14, ....

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofstat.shtml

Something tells me that 10 years from now the Yankees will probably be pretty close to the Giants in HoFers. However, the Yanks will still have way more WS titles then the Giants.

Don't know where Baseball Almanac got their info. Wikipedia lists 18 Yankee players who entered the HoF as Yankees:

Yogi Berra, Earl Combs, Joe DiMaggio, Bill Dickey, Whitey Ford, Lou Gehrig, Lefy Gomez, Joe Gordon, Goose Goosage, Waite Hoyte, Regggie Jackson, Tony Lazzeri, Mickey Mantle, Herb Pennock, Phil Rizzuto, Red Ruffing, Babe Ruth, and Jack Chesbro (as a N.Y. Highlander, the team that evolved into the Yankees). Still not as many as the Giants, but more than Almanac gives credit for.

[Matthew]

The Giants do, however, have more Hall of Famers than any team in the league...even more than the Yankees

He's right.

Giants 23, Cards 16, Yanks 15, Cubs 14, ....

http://www.baseball-...f/hofstat.shtml

Something tells me that 10 years from now the Yankees will probably be pretty close to the Giants in HoFers. However, the Yanks will still have way more WS titles then the Giants.

Don't know where Baseball Almanac got their info. Wikipedia lists 18 Yankee players who entered the HoF as Yankees:

Yogi Berra, Earl Combs, Joe DiMaggio, Bill Dickey, Whitey Ford, Lou Gehrig, Lefy Gomez, Joe Gordon, Goose Goosage, Waite Hoyte, Regggie Jackson, Tony Lazzeri, Mickey Mantle, Herb Pennock, Phil Rizzuto, Red Ruffing, Babe Ruth, and Jack Chesbro (as a N.Y. Highlander, the team that evolved into the Yankees). Still not as many as the Giants, but more than Almanac gives credit for.

I never understood how Reggie Jackson gets called a Yankee on the basis of five years with NY out of a twenty-one year career....

[paul secor]

The Giants do, however, have more Hall of Famers than any team in the league...even more than the Yankees

He's right.

Giants 23, Cards 16, Yanks 15, Cubs 14, ....

http://www.baseball-...f/hofstat.shtml

Something tells me that 10 years from now the Yankees will probably be pretty close to the Giants in HoFers. However, the Yanks will still have way more WS titles then the Giants.

Don't know where Baseball Almanac got their info. Wikipedia lists 18 Yankee players who entered the HoF as Yankees:

Yogi Berra, Earl Combs, Joe DiMaggio, Bill Dickey, Whitey Ford, Lou Gehrig, Lefy Gomez, Joe Gordon, Goose Goosage, Waite Hoyte, Regggie Jackson, Tony Lazzeri, Mickey Mantle, Herb Pennock, Phil Rizzuto, Red Ruffing, Babe Ruth, and Jack Chesbro (as a N.Y. Highlander, the team that evolved into the Yankees). Still not as many as the Giants, but more than Almanac gives credit for.

I never understood how Reggie Jackson gets called a Yankee on the basis of five years with NY out of a twenty-one year career....

At that point in time, the Hall let players choose what team's hat they wanted to be inducted under. Reggie chose the Yankees. Later, when Dave Winfield chose to be inducted as a Padre - probably because he worked for the Padre organization after he retired, even though he played more years and put up higher numbers with the Yankees - the HoF decided that they would decide what team a player would be inducted as a member of.

To me, the whole thing is foolish. The player is inducted, not the team. Catfish Hunter, for example, couldn't decide whether he wanted to be inducted as an A or as a Yankee, so he was inducted without an insignia on his cap. I think that should be the way it's handled in all cases, especially today with free agency.

[Tim McG]

The Giants do, however, have more Hall of Famers than any team in the league...even more than the Yankees

He's right.

Giants 23, Cards 16, Yanks 15, Cubs 14, ....

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofstat.shtml

Something tells me that 10 years from now the Yankees will probably be pretty close to the Giants in HoFers. However, the Yanks will still have way more WS titles then the Giants.

Don't know where Baseball Almanac got their info. Wikipedia lists 18 Yankee players who entered the HoF as Yankees:

Yogi Berra, Earl Combs, Joe DiMaggio, Bill Dickey, Whitey Ford, Lou Gehrig, Lefy Gomez, Joe Gordon, Goose Goosage, Waite Hoyte, Regggie Jackson, Tony Lazzeri, Mickey Mantle, Herb Pennock, Phil Rizzuto, Red Ruffing, Babe Ruth, and Jack Chesbro (as a N.Y. Highlander, the team that evolved into the Yankees). Still not as many as the Giants, but more than Almanac gives credit for.

Here is another link that is probably more qualified than most :

Baseball HOF

Edited December 24, 2010 by GoodSpeak

[JSngry]

Ron Washington nominated for Dallas Morning News Texan Of The Year: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/texanofyear/stories/DN-toy2_1224edi.State.Edition1.14c043c.html

Readers comments reflect how much better the Rangers organization is than so much of the market they serve...