JSngry Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 (edited) Well, how many times have we the general consumer been led to believe that certain things have been "lost" or "rumored to exist" only to find out that they have existed all along, only in the hands of a VERY few collectors (the kind I refered to earlier as "deep" collectors, people like that Jerry Valburn cat)? No problem with that as far as I'm concerned, collectors do what they do, and the financial considerations (the various estates, having the material devalued for all concerned by haphazard bootlegging, etc) involved in holding such rare and priceless material are quite legitimate. So no resentment from me if this stuff has in fact been known to exist, if only by a few. I just find in incredible (in several ways) that there has been no mention wahtsoever of this stuff even being RUMORED to exist. It's like this is something that haas truly turned up for out of nowhere. Which, given the Andorra cartel's history and reputation for questionable ethics (which extends beyond what people here on the board say, btw, 'nuff said), leads me to wonder if there might not be a tale of intrigue behind this footage. Even if it has just been unearthed (and the film stock seems to be well near virgin quality, I'd say), who unearthed it, where, how, and how did THESE guys end up with it? Or if it has been quietly circulating in select circles, how did it finally break out into general circulation? Did somebody break ranks, or was a little bit of theivery involved somewhere along the way? We've all seen and loved the movies involving "high-class" art, jewelry, etc. thieves, so maybe that's what's fueling my imagination here.But you got to admit, it's downright WIERD where and how this footage just suddenly pops up with absolutely no hype through the aegis of a company with a "shady" reputation. Could be the basis for a "cult film", don't you think? But that dowesn't really concern plebians like us, does it? Bottom line for US is GET IT WHILE YOU CAN!!! Edited January 23, 2004 by JSngry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Jim, in my original post on this I noted that the Lester Young footage seemed to have appeared first on a DVD entitled 'Norman Granz Presents Improvisation' that looks like having originated in the UK but without much bally-hoo about what was inside that DVD. Presume this was an authorised release and at least it carried the name of Norman Granz who produced Jammin' the Blues 1 and that second JATP film. The Andorra-based Idem company is making use of the 50-year copyrights laws that prevail on this side of the Atlantic to reissue the film. Good for them. And good for us! What really escapes me is that this was released without any fanfare, without anybody taking care to inform anyone about its discovery and of course without bothering to provide informations on how that unique footage suddently surfaced. If the paper still published all the news that's fit to print, this should have been quite a story for 'The New York Times'. Not to mention the jazz reviews. But I gave up reading the regular ones a long time ago. And I'm firmkly convinced that there's more to learn about the music we love on the Organissimo Forums than anywhere else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 What really escapes me is that this was released without any fanfare, without anybody taking care to inform anyone about its discovery and of course without bothering to provide informations on how that unique footage suddently surfaced. My sentiments exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 What really escapes me is that this was released without any fanfare, without anybody taking care to inform anyone about its discovery and of course without bothering to provide informations on how that unique footage suddently surfaced. If the paper still published all the news that's fit to print, this should have been quite a story for 'The New York Times'. Not to mention the jazz reviews. But I gave up reading the regular ones a long time ago. You sure the 50 years copyright regulation applies to films too? No matter how it is, they may have their reasons for not shouting it out, but apart from this I have the impression they hand out only few review copies and I never saw an ad for their new releases in any of the German magazines, only by one of their distributors. Could it be they don't want to wake up some sleeping giant? (If so, we better restrict ourselves to promoting this by PM!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 As Jim notes this is out of stock again so I have followed his advise and asked for notification when they get it back in stock. I'm sorry I missed this thread earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 You sure the 50 years copyright regulation applies to films too? No matter how it is, they may have their reasons for not shouting it out, but apart from this I have the impression they hand out only few review copies and I never saw an ad for their new releases in any of the German magazines, only by one of their distributors. Could it be they don't want to wake up some sleeping giant? (If so, we better restrict ourselves to promoting this by PM!) Mike, I am not sure of anything regarding this release. But the whole damn thing does not make sense to me. Which is probably why I am not and never will be a businessman! But if I were and would release a DVD with a title like 'The Greatest Jazz Films Ever' I would make some noise about it. By the way, at the place where I bought my copy, there was a second copy available, for the same price (15 euros). I guess both DVDs were reviewers' copies and those reviewers probably did not bother to check what was inside and got rid of what had been sent to them for a few bucks. When I realised what was inside the DVD and came back to buy the second copy for any interested friend, this was gone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmilovan Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 There is also few things to clear: It is about first "Jammin The Blues" film. Is the sound any better than on various soundtrack CDs of this film widely available? Is there any more filmed material included, than usually well known 3 tracks span ("Midnite Simphony", "Sunny Side" and "Jammin'...")? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted January 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Milan, there is no additional visual material to the 'Jammin' the Blues' film. It's the regular 10 minutes length. Much too short, we all agree. The added songs 'Sweet Georgia Brown', 'If I Could be With You', 'Blues for Marvin' and 'Jammin the Blues' have appeared elsewhere. Those four are on the Masters of Jazz Lester Young volume 6 CD that has just been discussed on another presidential thread. My DVD equipment does not allow me to place judgement on the sonic quality of 'Jammin' the Blues' but what I hear sounds fine to me. No better, no worse than what I have heard so far from this film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 I once saw Jammin' the Blues on a satelltite movie channel that is no longer on air, and it was pristine video and audio quality, on the level of the Jazz at The Philharmonic on the DVD, so there must be even better source material somewhere. I kicked my ass many times I didn't have my VHS recorder ready at the time ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Â Still - priceless, PRICELESS footage, seemingly released here in raw form, complete w/slatings (Buddy's change of countenance in one segment between where the take is being slated and "actual" filming begins is one of the many priceless moments) Well not exactly: .. they show the slate at the beginning of each number but then each number is pretty well edited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Point well taken. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 The question is - where the hell has this stuff been all these years? Has it been circulating amongst "deep" collectors, or has it just been unearthed? The film quality is incredibly good either way. But...so much more, including the unused music recorded for "Jammin' The Blues" (audio only, of course). Having never befores seen JTB, I was initially disappointed by the total lack of belivabilty in the pantomiming, but I got over that REAL quickly. A visual feat, this one is. The Miles stuff I had seen only once before in toto, and the same goes for "The Sound Of Jazz", which appears here in, I think, more complete form than the VHS copy I once saw. All are about as good as quality, audio & video, as I think is possible unless pristine original source material is found. Who knows if that will happen? The CBS vaults must have some dusty nooks and crannies that remain uncharted, but I'm not holding my breath. I had thought that "Improvisation" was never completed. The jazz film collector Mark Cantor once found the visuals from Ballade and synched it to the music himself! Then it (Ballade) showed up on a cdrom called Living Jazz that was put together by Herbie Hancock. Later I read that Improvisation was available on a Lazer Disc from Japan. The technical quality of this material is so good it makes the rest look pretty bad. I've got a VHS of Sound of Jazz that's a bit better and more complete ( it has commercials for other CBC shows). My Japanese Lazer Disc of Sound of Miles Davis is also better. There are good prints of Jammin' around because it's owned by Warner Brothers and was put out in a Lazer Disc box set along with several other things of interest to Jazz fans. A few years ago CBS had to borrow a print of The Sound of Jazz from a collector so they probably don't have a better print. But the director (Jack Smight) gave one to the UCLA film library so that should be good. Boy I wish it would get released legitimately. I've tried but ran into AFofM problems. BTW I tried to answer you in one post but couldn't figure out how to break up your quotes. Can anyone out there advise me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 And what's the story on the Jamal -Webster footage? Looks like it's from a tv show similar to the Sound of Jazz. o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Ooops. After I sent that last post I found the answer myself in David Meeker's invaluable book "Jazz in the Movies". He lists it as "Jazz from Studio '61" and it's in fact produced by Robert Herridge who produced both The Sound of Jazz and The Sound of Miles Davis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Much good information. Thanks! As for the breaking up of quotes, what you can do, short of typing all the code(?) yourself is cut-and-paste from the post (you can most likely see it below the posting box, if not, open another browser window and go to it) and use the "QUOTE" button. If you're in "Guided Mode", a box opens up to paste into. If not, just paste in the posting box, making sure to "Close All Tags" after each quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 This DVD is back in stock at Dusty Groove. I've ordered my copy and it will hopefully be shipping today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 This is Mark Cantor's explanation of the provenance of the JATP footage. > In terms of the Norman Granz footage, the short subject / featurette (which > was meant to revisit the earlier success that Granz and Mili had with "Jammin' > the Blues") was never completed at the time of production in 1951. There were > sound/image sync problems, and Granz once told me that he "just didn't like > the damn thing at all." And so it disappeared for decades with only vague > rumors of its existence. > > The film was "rediscovered" some nine years ago by a Granz employee; to the > best of my knowledge he copied the footage, and there was some very limited > circulation among collectors at this time. There was also an attempt to > create a documentary around the footage, but this also failed to gain Granz's > approval. But it too soon entered the realm of film and video collectors. > And so these two films floated around for a while, one in a raw, unedited form and > the other in the form of a documentary. Next came the Japanese laser disk, which > was cleaned and polished to a great degree. It appears that what is on your > DVD might be one of the earlier "incantations" of the material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ando Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 (edited) Thanks for that, brownie. Ando Edited February 14, 2004 by Ando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted February 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Ando, you're welcome. And a very warm welcome to this Board! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newk Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 I just got my copy from Dusty Groove. I've seen parts of most of this, but this is the first time I have seen the complete versions. It's great stuff to have and it's great to have it all in one place. Good service from the Groove. I paid for media mail and got it in a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel_M Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 Look very interesting but it's code region 0 so not playable in USA or Canada I presume ? Or playable in some way ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 "Two sided" DVD - different format on each side. Plays fine for me, as long as I load the right side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Got a DVD called "Lester Young, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis: Great Performances". Here's what it includes: #1-3: Jammin' The Blues (Mili) #4: Hot House (Bird & Diz) #5-9: JATP (Mili) #10-13: The Sound of Miles Davis (Smight) ("The Sound of Jazz") #14-17: bonus tracks from Jammin' the Blues. Now first: I have been very very moved, and deeply impressed. Fantastic to see Prez and all the others! Wow! My question is: is the listing above exactly what Disc 1 of the 2DVD set includes? And if so, can someone confirm that item #10 on this list (Dusty Groove) has exactly what is on the second DVD of the 2 DVD set? The store where I bought the "Great Performances" DVD has #10 from the list, but not the 2DVD set, yet if the two single DVDs don't have it all I might go searching for the 2DVD set... I'm hooked! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 It is my understanding that the 2-DVD set (although I haven't actually watched it) is a later combination of the earlier single DVDs. I got the single titles myself before the 2-DVD set was released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Thanks! So I'll go back to that store and get the other DVD as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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