new Charlie Christian on Uptown

[AllenLowe]

just picked this up, have not even listened, but I have to say that the notes by Frank Driggs are just terrible - inaccurate (he complains that almost no one has written about Lonnie Johnson; where has he been?) incoherent and grammatically a mess; badly organized, little continuity, and nothing about the original sources of the music - I hope the actual recording is better (I'm sure it will be); this is just disappointing because Uptown's notes are usually quite good.

oh well

[jazzbo]

I was a bit disappointed in the sound, but it's pretty good none-the-less. Previous discussion on this thread:

[medjuck]

just picked this up, have not even listened, but I have to say that the notes by Frank Driggs are just terrible - inaccurate (he complains that almost no one has written about Lonnie Johnson; where has he been?) incoherent and grammatically a mess; badly organized, little continuity, and nothing about the original sources of the music - I hope the actual recording is better (I'm sure it will be); this is just disappointing because Uptown's notes are usually quite good.

oh well

I agree. But what do you think of his contention that Lonnie Johnson is the source from which all other jazz guitarists spring? (He doesn't actually put it that way.) BTW I saw Lonnie Johnson performing at a restaurant in Toronto. At the time I didn't really know who he was.

Edited August 15, 2011 by medjuck

[AllenLowe]

neither true nor false - Eddie Lang is a closer link to jazz; Lonnie was an incredible guitarist, but not really a jazz player - his real importance is to the modern blues, IMHO. He did perform with important jazz people, but jazz critics, since they don't know enough other forms, often oversimplify. He comes out of an old-time black string band tradition more than jazz.

Edited August 15, 2011 by AllenLowe

[Brownian Motion]

neither true nor false - Eddie Lang is a closer link to jazz; Lonnie was an incredible guitarist, but not really a jazz player - his real importance is to the modern blues, IMHO. He did perform with important jazz people, but jazz critics, since they don't know enough other forms, often oversimplify. He comes out of an old-time black string band tradition more than jazz.

That's really interesting. The "black string-band" tradition also produced guitarist Arnold Schultz, a somewhat overlooked giant of country music who was cited by both Ike Everly and, more importantly, Bill Monroe as an influence on their styles.

http://blindman.15.forumer.com/a/arnold-schultz_post1215.html

Allen, do you know of any research into Schultz? I don't think he ever recorded.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Brownian Motion

[JSngry]

Lonnie was an incredible guitarist, but not really a jazz player - his real importance is to the modern blues, IMHO. He did perform with important jazz people, but jazz critics, since they don't know enough other forms, often oversimplify. He comes out of an old-time black string band tradition more than jazz.

Were the "lines of demarcation" drawn as clearly then by players as they are now by historians?

[Neal Pomea]

It's supposed to be Lonnie Johnson playing the fiddle on this hot number (uncredited) entitled Train on John Fahey's album Voice of the Turtle. Hear the black string band sound. Track 8, Train.

http://www.amazon.com/Voice-Turtle-John-Fahey/dp/B000003Z8Z

[AllenLowe]

re: Schultz - his name is mentioned a lot, I think by Bob Wills, but by others as well. We have third-party testimony but no recordings, so it's hard to gauge, though I think we can assume he was very important. Another interesting guy is Mose Rager, a white guitarist in the whole lineage of Blind Blake/Merle Travis/Ike Everly line and also a major influence; Larry Cohn has unreleased recordings of his, though I think something is on youtube - it's very hard in this whole thing to say who influenced whom, but that whole guitar/banjo picking tradition is extensive and complicated. We usually assume that black musicians were the source, but given the isolation of some of those areas, there were probably a lot of regional players who had their own thing, black and white.

[Lazaro Vega]

So, is this new material on Charlie Christian or previously available or known of recordings?

[J.A.W.]

So, is this new material on Charlie Christian or previously available or known of recordings?

See the info in this Uptown thread.

[Christiern]

I know that Frank Driggs is the guy who never saw a photograph he didn't take, but who is Lonnie Johnson??????

[AllenLowe]

somebody I know found him in Philly -

[AllenLowe]

just listening - the Minneapolis recordings are an improvement over the Columbia issues, though a little un-naturally quiet; still, ok -

HOWEVER - on the Goodman cuts, whoever did the sound work has de-hissed to the point of that disgusting gurgling/underwater sound in places - so some of these cuts are virtually unlistenable. I'm sorry I bought this thing. Sunnenblick, who has used great engineers in the past, has found someone here who has gone overboard on the de-hiss.

[J.A.W.]

just listening - the Minneapolis recordings are an improvement over the Columbia issues, though a little un-naturally quiet; still, ok -

HOWEVER - on the Goodman cuts, whoever did the sound work has de-hissed to the point of that disgusting gurgling/underwater sound in places - so some of these cuts are virtually unlistenable. I'm sorry I bought this thing. Sunnenblick, who has used great engineers in the past, has found someone here who has gone overboard on the de-hiss.

Thanks for the warning. The transfers and mastering were done by Bill Welham; never heard of him.

[Christiern]

Did he perhaps study audio transfer under Schaap?

[AllenLowe]

woke up this morning to this charming little email from Uptown:

"Hey asshole, send the CD back and I'll refund your money. The total know-it-all asshole strikes again with his chat room chuckies. There is no gurgling in the Goodman tracks. And Bill Welham is quite a good engineer and doesn't deserve your jaded and "knowledgabvle" comments!! And my name is not Sunnenblick, Lownstein. Bob Sunenblick"

and in a follow-up email, strangely enough, Sunenblick, in case anyone is wondering, gave me permission to post that email.

I don't care what he calls me, but I hope you guys realize you've been called "chuckies." Must be some kind of Canadian insult.

Edited August 17, 2011 by AllenLowe

[EKE BBB]

I haven't bought this disc yet, so I cannot give my impressions.

But after reading Bob Sunenblick's infuriated and probably overreactive email, we should get things into perspective. So far I just have read three different opinions regarding its sound quality on this board (in this thread and in the other one focused on Uptown Records):

* Allen's

the Minneapolis recordings are an improvement over the Columbia issues, though a little un-naturally quiet; still, ok. HOWEVER - on the Goodman cuts, whoever did the sound work has de-hissed to the point of that disgusting gurgling/underwater sound in places - so some of these cuts are virtually unlistenable. I'm sorry I bought this thing. Sunnenblick, who has used great engineers in the past, has found someone here who has gone overboard on the de-hiss

* jazzbo's

I was a bit disappointed in the sound, but it's pretty good none-the-less

* Fer Urbina's

the sound on the Charlie Christian CD is remarkable

More input?

Edited August 17, 2011 by EKE BBB

[J.A.W.]

I haven't bought this disc yet, so I cannot give my impressions.

But after reading Bob Sunenblick's infuriated and probably overreactive email, we should get things into perspective. So far I just have read three different opinions regarding its sound quality on this board (in this thread and in the other one focused on Uptown Records):

* Allen's

the Minneapolis recordings are an improvement over the Columbia issues, though a little un-naturally quiet; still, ok. HOWEVER - on the Goodman cuts, whoever did the sound work has de-hissed to the point of that disgusting gurgling/underwater sound in places - so some of these cuts are virtually unlistenable. I'm sorry I bought this thing. Sunnenblick, who has used great engineers in the past, has found someone here who has gone overboard on the de-hiss

* jazzbo's

I was a bit disappointed in the sound, but it's pretty good none-the-less

* Fer Urbina's

the sound on the Charlie Christian CD is remarkable

More input?

Actually, I found Mr Sunenblick's e-mail quite funny, but it is indeed an overreaction and rather offensive.

As for the sound quality, I haven't heard the CD, but, given Allen's experience with de-noising, I trust his judgement.

[AllenLowe]

please note that I never said people should not buy the CD -

as a matter of fact, over in "offerings" I have, in the interests of the public good, put my own copy up for sale.

[JETman]

Does Mr. Sunenblick not realize that we "chuckies" make up the large majority of his target audience? It seems to me that when one decides to get into the entertainment industry, in any capacity, that one opens oneself up to tons of criticism, justified or not. I'm sure that if one of us were to tell Chuck that his product sucked, he'd laugh and move on. Same goes for others who are members of this board like Messrs. Weiss and Kimbrough.

[AllenLowe]

well, the funny thing about Sunenblick turning an attack on me into an attack on Organissimo in general is that he doesn't realize that half the members here think I'm psychotic, and the other half block my posts -

[gmonahan]

I'm still interested in what "chuckies" are! Followers of Chuck? Count me in!

gregmo

[AllenLowe]

well. I've seen some of the Chuckie movies -

[Christiern]

Aren't Chuckies sweet and chocolaty?

[Hot Ptah]

I am tempted to change my forum name to Chat Room Chuckie.

woke up this morning to this charming little email from Uptown:

"Hey asshole, send the CD back and I'll refund your money. The total know-it-all asshole strikes again with his chat room chuckies. There is no gurgling in the Goodman tracks. And Bill Welham is quite a good engineer and doesn't deserve your jaded and "knowledgabvle" comments!! And my name is not Sunnenblick, Lownstein. Bob Sunenblick"

and in a follow-up email, strangely enough, Sunenblick, in case anyone is wondering, gave me permission to post that email.

I don't care what he calls me, but I hope you guys realize you've been called "chuckies." Must be some kind of Canadian insult.

What's with the "Lownstein"? Is that meant to be an offensive ethnic slur?