Miles' 60s Quintet Without Miles

[Joe]

Early 60s, right.

Point just being that bassists then were not traditionally leaders of dates.

True 'dat. Even Carter's WHERE? is much less of a bassist's than a cellist's date. But it could have been the first in a string of Carter-led sessions, only it wasn't...

[JSngry]

Some guys don't have the drive and/or need to hustle a leader date. I suspect that Carter in the 60s would have fit that bill.

[PHILLYQ]

Ron Carter also became very involved with academia at the CCNY(City College NY)music program.Don't know exact dates, but I believe he was a professor there for quite awhile, and it's important to point out that a gig like that provides a pension and health benefits, both important considerations for musicians. Between that and playing a gazillion sideman gigs on other's recordings he just may have had not much time to do a lot else.

[brownie]

When I heard Wayne Shorter playing in a Village club back in September 1965, Herbie Hancock was with him. Richard Davis was on bass and Joe Chambers on drums.

[bertrand]

That's something I would have loved to hear live.

They probably played some Shorter originals, based on the one private club recording which circulates from that era.

Bertrand.

[mikeweil]

Considering the influence producers had on chosing sidemen, maybe it was them who wanted to avoid anything too close to the quintet's personnel. Besides that, all the guys mentioned were part of a pool of players, and there may be several factors involved in determining who ended up on which live or studio date.

I remember reading about Miles complaining when his rhythm section was hired by Orrin Keepnews for Wes Montgomery's Full House date - he shut up after Wynton Kelly asked him for monetary compensation in case he cancelled. Sometimes bandleaders were jealous, or even suspicious, Miles in particular, because it was only a small step to loosing sidemen. Consider how long it took him to get a satisfactory replacement for Coltrane or anybody else he appreciated.

[Teasing the Korean]

Considering the influence producers had on chosing sidemen, maybe it was them who wanted to avoid anything too close to the quintet's personnel. Besides that, all the guys mentioned were part of a pool of players, and there may be several factors involved in determining who ended up on which live or studio date.

I remember reading about Miles complaining when his rhythm section was hired by Orrin Keepnews for Wes Montgomery's Full House date - he shut up after Wynton Kelly asked him for monetary compensation in case he cancelled. Sometimes bandleaders were jealous, or even suspicious, Miles in particular, because it was only a small step to loosing sidemen. Consider how long it took him to get a satisfactory replacement for Coltrane or anybody else he appreciated.

This seems to make sense. A similar parallel is Brubeck asking Desmond to not use piano players on Desmond's sessions.