Soulstation1 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I heard Vilma was offering $$$$$ for big/knockout plays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Why is Goodell waiting to drop the shoe on Jonathan Vilma? He's checking with the NFLPA as to what they can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 OK. Just when you think it can't get any worse: The Niners give Smith a three year contract. So, the Barry Zito of football will hang around another THREE YEARS?!? Gaaa!!! Just shoot me....just shoot me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quincy Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Ah Bronco fans... "James H. "Jim" Driver, 78, of Eagle, Colo., formerly of Columbia, passed away Monday, March 19, 2012, at South Hampton Place in Columbia after a brief illness. An avid Broncos fan, he abhorred Manning and evidently wanted out before a deal was done." Full obit here though that's all of the NFL content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Ah Bronco fans... "James H. "Jim" Driver, 78, of Eagle, Colo., formerly of Columbia, passed away Monday, March 19, 2012, at South Hampton Place in Columbia after a brief illness. An avid Broncos fan, he abhorred Manning and evidently wanted out before a deal was done." Full obit here though that's all of the NFL content. ...Jim enrolled at Santa Clara Community College in Sunnyvale, Calif. However, deciding the curriculum was too liberal, Jim transferred to the University of Missouri, where he earned a degree in anthropology. Freakin' community colleges, hotbed of the radical left... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I honestly do not understand Denver's reasoning in all this. Or maybe Elway is a complete idiot as I know many argue. Your team is going nowhere. You have a quarterback that has tons of raw talent but needs a lot of study and training to excel at the pro level. I thought from the start that signing Manning would be a brilliant move for the team; get a quality QB that can coach and teach your valuable prospect while filling the time on the field for a couple of years until Tebow is ready. Brilliant! Uh...except they dumped Tebow, and now have an old quarterback who, even if they build their team properly, will be retiring before the team is ready to compete, and the man they would have (presumably) ready to step in at that time is no longer there. This is pure idiocy, and Denver is now screwed for at least ten years. Now, not being a Bronco fan, this is okay with me, but still, how could you take this stupid route? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I honestly do not understand Denver's reasoning in all this. Or maybe Elway is a complete idiot as I know many argue. Your team is going nowhere. You have a quarterback that has tons of raw talent but needs a lot of study and training to excel at the pro level. I thought from the start that signing Manning would be a brilliant move for the team; get a quality QB that can coach and teach your valuable prospect while filling the time on the field for a couple of years until Tebow is ready. Brilliant! Uh...except they dumped Tebow, and now have an old quarterback who, even if they build their team properly, will be retiring before the team is ready to compete, and the man they would have (presumably) ready to step in at that time is no longer there. This is pure idiocy, and Denver is now screwed for at least ten years. Now, not being a Bronco fan, this is okay with me, but still, how could you take this stupid route? Because 1) They knew that Manning, like most topflight starting QBs, is not into teaching/nurturing other QBs; that's the job of coaches, Manning's is winning games; and 2) They thought that Tebow did not have enough of the right kind of talent to ever be a successful starting QB in the NFL. Many but not all people in and around the NFL feel the same about Tebow. Thus, getting Manning and trading Tebow is in Elway's view the obvious right move, because it not only gives the Broncos a decent chance to win a championship (the team have a fine defense, no?), but it also solves the problem they had last year and would have had down the road, in which the fans run the franchise. When Manning runs out of gas, Elway figures that whatever QB they can acquire to replace him will be better than Tebow is now or will be then. Hey, even if Manning's head falls off in game one, they might still be in better shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILLYQ Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I honestly do not understand Denver's reasoning in all this. Or maybe Elway is a complete idiot as I know many argue. Your team is going nowhere. You have a quarterback that has tons of raw talent but needs a lot of study and training to excel at the pro level. I thought from the start that signing Manning would be a brilliant move for the team; get a quality QB that can coach and teach your valuable prospect while filling the time on the field for a couple of years until Tebow is ready. Brilliant! Uh...except they dumped Tebow, and now have an old quarterback who, even if they build their team properly, will be retiring before the team is ready to compete, and the man they would have (presumably) ready to step in at that time is no longer there. This is pure idiocy, and Denver is now screwed for at least ten years. Now, not being a Bronco fan, this is okay with me, but still, how could you take this stupid route? I understand what you're saying, but I look at it a bit differently. Denver went 8-8 with a very good defensive team, but an offense that needed quite a bit(It looked to me that the comeback victories Tebow got credit for were also games where the defense did a great job holding the other team.)of juice. With some cap room to possible add a receiver or two, and if the defense plays well, they could win 11+ games in a weak division. That might get a first round bye and then they have to win two games to get to the SB. Unless Elway never cared for Tebow as a QB now or in the future and this gets rid of Tebow without any flack and Elway gets someone as a future QB in the next year or two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Yeah, Tebow, or actually his fans, were pretty much calling the shots as far as who was going to play QB in Denver. Elway found the perfect way to get out of that situation. The only way he looks bad now is if Manning gets hurt, can't play, and Tebow replaces an ineffective Sanchez and somehow scrambles the Jets back into the playoffs. But that could never happen, right? ... No way. ... right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) What I don't get in all this is if Manning wants another Super Bowl ring, why on Earth would he pick the Broncos? They are at least five years away from becoming any sort of meaningful threat in the AFC, let alone the playoffs. Secondly, why does Tebow go to the Jets? He is no improvement over Sanchez and will bring his crazed "Tebow-time" fans with him. Wouldn't that be more of a distraction rather than a help? Both Jacksonville and Miami would have been a better fit, IMHO. Crazy-nuts. Edited March 23, 2012 by GoodSpeak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) I believe in the old baseball saying that it's better to trade a player a year too soon than a year too late. When you trade a player too soon, you get top value for him. But Denver got only two lower draft picks. Did no one want him? Say what you will about his lack of talent, Tebow showed when given the chance that he's a winner. Isn't that the idea? I also don't understand the idea that clearing Tebow out of town will make it easier for Manning, as the crowd won't be shouting for Tebow. Who cares what Manning thinks? Denver doesn't owe him anything. Manning has no goodwill with the Denver team or fans. He said at the Indianapolis press conference last week that he will always be a Colt. Why should Manning be made more comfortable in Denver than any other pro quarterback except Brady? The sports talkers on Sirius say that the Jets team is a zoo from the top down. I think that the Jets players would rally around Tebow if he came up with some fourth quarter wins like he did in Denver. Players want to win. Tebow is a star, and New York is the best place for stars to shine. This scenario reminds me of how the Bills players rallied around Doug Flutie when the coaches insisted that Rob Johnson was their man. Edited March 23, 2012 by GA Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 What I don't get in all this is if Manning wants another Super Bowl ring, why on Earth would he pick the Broncos? They are at least five years away from becoming any sort of meaningful threat in the AFC, let alone the playoffs. Exactly. Denver is not going to win a championship with Manning; they just don't have the offense. By the time the Broncos develop an offense (if they can; this whole thing gives me doubts about their ability to accomplish anything with the current team in charge), Manning will be out of the game. As far as Tebow goes, I am NOT a Tebow fan. However, I think it's quite possible that he could develop into a decent quarterback IF he is put in the right situation. New York is NEVER the right situation for such things; Denver could have been with a little patience. If Elway dumped Tebow because he was sick of dealing with the fans, fine, but let's admit that he did it for his own comfort, not to help the team. If he felt that Tebow would never develop, then I can understand getting rid of him, but the signing Manning for a team like this makes no sense, either from the team's standpoint or Manning's. I guess what I'm saying is that I think Elway is in over his head in the front office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 What I don't get in all this is if Manning wants another Super Bowl ring, why on Earth would he pick the Broncos? They are at least five years away from becoming any sort of meaningful threat in the AFC, let alone the playoffs. Exactly. Denver is not going to win a championship with Manning; they just don't have the offense. By the time the Broncos develop an offense (if they can; this whole thing gives me doubts about their ability to accomplish anything with the current team in charge), Manning will be out of the game. As far as Tebow goes, I am NOT a Tebow fan. However, I think it's quite possible that he could develop into a decent quarterback IF he is put in the right situation. New York is NEVER the right situation for such things; Denver could have been with a little patience. If Elway dumped Tebow because he was sick of dealing with the fans, fine, but let's admit that he did it for his own comfort, not to help the team. If he felt that Tebow would never develop, then I can understand getting rid of him, but the signing Manning for a team like this makes no sense, either from the team's standpoint or Manning's. I guess what I'm saying is that I think Elway is in over his head in the front office. If Manning is and remains healthy and the Broncos add some receivers he feels comfortable with (I believe they're doing that already), then the Broncos will have a much better offense right away. As for Tebow, the notion that he's a winner because he was the QB when the team won some defense-dominated, fluky games is silly, unless you believe in divine intervention. Remember Kyle Orton? He was the winning QB in a lot of games for the Bears when he was thrust into action by an injury, but that was for a team that had a fine defense and not because of much that Orton himself did. And we all know the QB that Orton has since proved himself to be. As for Tebow perhaps developing into a decent QB, why waste the time and effort and the fate of your team on this quest? Why not, if Manning's health holds up, buy two or more years of likely superior play from a Hall of Fame player who might lead you to a Super Bowl while you also acquire down the road a young QB who could be better than "decent." This side of Trent Dilfer, Super Bowl-winning teams don't have decent or below decent QBs. As for GA Russell's points -- Yes, pretty much no one wanted Tebow, unless they have a coach who digs the Wildcat (like the Jets' new offensive coordinator Tony Sparano) or an owner who really needs someone who can put butts in the seats, like the guy at Jacksonville. And I don't know anyone who thinks that the Broncos needed to get Tebow out of town to make Manning feel more at ease. About Tebow being a winner, see the first paragraph above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 No, no, no. I never called Tebow a winner. I say he could develop into one in the right circumstances. As for Denver winning the Superbowl anytime soon, that wasn't going to happen with Tebow, and it's not going to happen now. I just don't feel that Denver was 'a quarterback away' from being a reliable contender. Denver should be building for the future; Manning is not the future. Tebow may not have been their future, either, but Manning is definitely not, he's just too old. I think both you and Elway are seriously overestimating their chances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 No, no, no. I never called Tebow a winner. I say he could develop into one in the right circumstances. As for Denver winning the Superbowl anytime soon, that wasn't going to happen with Tebow, and it's not going to happen now. I just don't feel that Denver was 'a quarterback away' from being a reliable contender. Denver should be building for the future; Manning is not the future. Tebow may not have been their future, either, but Manning is definitely not, he's just too old. I think both you and Elway are seriously overestimating their chances... About Tebow being a winner, I see I confused you with GA Russell. Elway felt that Tebow had to be removed because he could only be somewhat effective in an offense tailored to him, and that that offense could not win a championship. Manning solved the Tebow problem, in the short run Manning might win a championship, meanwhile a better option for the future than Tebow could be found, and control of football operations could be returned to Elway et al. from the true believers in Tebow. Is it impossible that Tebow could be great? Yes, in the opinion of almost all the football people in the NFL. Is it possible that Tebow could be decent? Yes, but only in an offense that's tailored to him. Again, though, "decent" doesn't win championships, and why, unless one cares about Tebow personally, should one invest the fate of your team in him rather than any number of other potentially decent QBs? Instead, hope you can get a better than decent one down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) What I don't get in all this is if Manning wants another Super Bowl ring, why on Earth would he pick the Broncos? They are at least five years away from becoming any sort of meaningful threat in the AFC, let alone the playoffs. Exactly. Denver is not going to win a championship with Manning; they just don't have the offense. By the time the Broncos develop an offense (if they can; this whole thing gives me doubts about their ability to accomplish anything with the current team in charge), Manning will be out of the game. As far as Tebow goes, I am NOT a Tebow fan. However, I think it's quite possible that he could develop into a decent quarterback IF he is put in the right situation. New York is NEVER the right situation for such things; Denver could have been with a little patience. If Elway dumped Tebow because he was sick of dealing with the fans, fine, but let's admit that he did it for his own comfort, not to help the team. If he felt that Tebow would never develop, then I can understand getting rid of him, but the signing Manning for a team like this makes no sense, either from the team's standpoint or Manning's. I guess what I'm saying is that I think Elway is in over his head in the front office. I agree. Elway never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer anyway and this Manning/Tebow thing has the potential to blow up in his face. One or two hard hits [adding the fact Denver doesn't play under a dome where the Winters get just plain frigid] and Manning could be done sooner rather than later. Edited March 25, 2012 by GoodSpeak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quincy Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 One or two hard hits [adding the fact Denver doesn't play undar a dome where the Winters get just plain frigid] and Manning could be done sooner rather than later. Luckily for Peyton when the Saints play in Denver there will be a lot of eyes on the defense. I doubt they'll be allowed to even rush the QB. While there are risks it's a relatively easy division. Not all teams that make (not necessarily win the Super Bowl) look like the result of long-term grand plans anyway. To some degree perhaps the model is like the AZ Cardinals a few years ago, only with a better defense. 9-7 might be good enough to win the division and get in, after that it's the crapshoot of the playoffs. A very good defense and future HOF QB (hmm, also smells a little like the Vikes w/ Farve, minus the great RB) and having a "regular" QB as backup just in case seems like a safer plan to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Pat Robertson weighs in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Pat Robertson weighs in I'd like to "weigh in" on Pat Robertson. Possibly either by dropping a boulder on him...or maybe parking a truck on his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Pat Robertson weighs in I'd like to "weigh in" on Pat Robertson. Possibly either by dropping a boulder on him...or maybe parking a truck on his head. So....I guess this means the Broncos will burn in hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Tebow had a better QB rating in the playoffs last year than Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger. He had a better QB rating in the regular season than Sam Bradford and he was in the same ballpark as Sanchez, Matt Cassel, Josh Freeman and Colt McCoy. His throwing mechanics apparently stink, but he sure seems to take a lot more criticism than the Bradfords and McCoys of the league (guys with generally the same experience), with a lot more wins in his pocket than they have. Not saying he's god's gift to the position, but he's not the worst young quarterback in the league either. At least judging by the results. Disagree with the notion that the Broncos are nowhere near being a contender in the playoffs. They got there last year with this horrible quarterback named Tebow. They play in a relatively weak division, although they have a fairly tough schedule this coming year. They have a good defense. And don't forget what Manning was able to do with a Colts team that was exposed as being pretty bad without him. Worst in the league, in fact. Edited March 25, 2012 by papsrus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 One or two hard hits [adding the fact Denver doesn't play undar a dome where the Winters get just plain frigid] and Manning could be done sooner rather than later. Luckily for Peyton when the Saints play in Denver there will be a lot of eyes on the defense. I doubt they'll be allowed to even rush the QB. While there are risks it's a relatively easy division. Not all teams that make (not necessarily win the Super Bowl) look like the result of long-term grand plans anyway. To some degree perhaps the model is like the AZ Cardinals a few years ago, only with a better defense. 9-7 might be good enough to win the division and get in, after that it's the crapshoot of the playoffs. A very good defense and future HOF QB (hmm, also smells a little like the Vikes w/ Farve, minus the great RB) and having a "regular" QB as backup just in case seems like a safer plan to me. True. But remnember: The Raiders play in the same division as the Broncos. Their specialty is big hits...especially on QBs they hate. The so-called Black Hole will not be a pretty place for Manning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 About Tebow's flaws as a QB, this is pretty devastating: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/sports/football/a-gifted-athlete-tim-tebow-has-plenty-of-flaws.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=tanier&st=cse As for "judging him by the results," football is a team game, and the team around Tebow was a pretty good one. The teams around Bradford and McCoy were not. As a Bears fan, I witnesssed the same effect when Kyle Orton took over from an injured Rex Grossman several years back and "won" a bunch of games not because Orton did anything other than not make horrendous mistakes (not that he was allowed to by the coaches) but because the team had a fine defense that often gave the offense the benefit of turnovers and a short field to work with. Thus we win 10-9, or 13-10. And yet Orton was felt by many fans to have "won" all of those games. What Orton really is as a QB is now clear; he's mediocre at best. Too bad he wasn't on a mission from God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quincy Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Too bad he wasn't on a mission from God. Blues Brothers quotes just come so naturally to you Chicagoans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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