Sandusky Investigation Findings

[Mike Schwartz]

I'd love to see the Paterno family go silent.

To me they muck up an already messy scene.

Vowing to make their own independent investigation, or proclaiming all the evidence is not in concerning Joe; reports of how devestated the widow is upon the removal of the statue and that it's removal doesn't benefit the victims.

The Paterno family issued a statement only hours later saying the statue's removal "does not serve the victims of Jerry Sandusky's horrible crimes or help heal the Penn State community."

"We believe the only way to help the victims is to uncover the full truth," said the family, which vowed its own investigation following the release of the Freeh report. The family called the report "the equivalent of an indictment -- a charging document written by a prosecutor -- and an incomplete and unofficial one at that."

ENOUGH ALREADY!!

Paterno family statement after today's rulings:

"The sanctions announced by the NCAA today defame the legacy and contributions of a great coach and educator without any input from our family or those who knew him best," the statement said. "That the president, the athletic director and the board of trustees accepted this unprecedented action by the NCAA without requiring a full due process hearing before the Committee on Infractions is an abdication of their responsibilities."

When it's all said and done, the worst, filthiest, most disgusting events to ever come out of a university sports program, happended on 'Mr. Holier Than Thou's' watch and guidance.

Screw the statue...have the freaking thing melted down, so that it has no value to anyone in any way in the future...like dumping Bin Laden's body in the sea; no moral martyrs to cry at it's feet and no pilgrimage to pray to St. Joe.

Paterno was sought out when he was in his late 60's to take the head coaching job at Miami, which was coming off scandals and penalties of it's own, which pale in comparison.

This is what Paterno was quoted saying:

"Miami is a very quality institution that unfortunately has been hurt by all the shenanigans that went on there," he answered. "But to be honest with you, I didn't think a Penn State person would be a good choice for Miami. We're at the other end of the spectrum, and I don't think it's necessary for Miami to try to be Penn State. Miami needs to ... come to grips with the fact it needs more control."

Edited July 24, 2012 by Mike Schwartz

[Tim McG]

Then 20+ years later....

Edited July 24, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[Mike Schwartz]

Then 20+ years later....

...and children abused in & around the football program since 1998 ( that are known to this point in time)

[Tim McG]

By Sandusky.

Schultz, Curley and Paterno covered up the whole sordid mess.

Funny how things change, isn't it?

Edited July 24, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[Larry Kart]

Perhaps interesting (they were to me) arguments that the NCAA action against Penn State was wrong:

http://www.thenation.com/blog/169002/why-ncaas-sanctions-penn-state-are-just-dead-wrong#

http://www.thenation.com/blog/168891/against-abolishing-football-penn-state

[ejp626]

Perhaps interesting (they were to me) arguments that the NCAA action against Penn State was wrong:

http://www.thenation.com/blog/169002/why-ncaas-sanctions-penn-state-are-just-dead-wrong#

http://www.thenation.com/blog/168891/against-abolishing-football-penn-state

Not at all convinced by these columns. One of the more interesting sidebars (elsewhere) said that PSU completely accepted the punishment and would not sue and/or appeal. Furthermore, if a third party tried to sue the NCAA, PSU would join them in an effort to toss the lawsuit as being without merit (no standing) and recover legal costs on behalf of NCAA from any third-party claimant. Bam!

Edited July 24, 2012 by ejp626

[Larry Kart]

Perhaps interesting (they were to me) arguments that the NCAA action against Penn State was wrong:

http://www.thenation.com/blog/169002/why-ncaas-sanctions-penn-state-are-just-dead-wrong#

http://www.thenation.com/blog/168891/against-abolishing-football-penn-state

Not at all convinced by these columns. One of the more interesting sidebars (elsewhere) said that PSU completely accepted the punishment and would not sue and/or appeal. Furthermore, if a third party tried to sue the NCAA, PSU would join them in an effort to toss the lawsuit as being without merit (no standing) and recover legal costs on behalf of NCAA from any third-party claimant. Bam!

As others have said, the PSU/NCAA agreement sounds like a a plea-bargain deal -- i.e. better this (for us, mutually) than other options we can envision. The no third-party lawsuit business seems rather fishy on the face of it, certainly not something one would cite as a sign of how fair/logical/you name it this agreement was.

[ejp626]

Perhaps interesting (they were to me) arguments that the NCAA action against Penn State was wrong:

http://www.thenation.com/blog/169002/why-ncaas-sanctions-penn-state-are-just-dead-wrong#

http://www.thenation.com/blog/168891/against-abolishing-football-penn-state

Not at all convinced by these columns. One of the more interesting sidebars (elsewhere) said that PSU completely accepted the punishment and would not sue and/or appeal. Furthermore, if a third party tried to sue the NCAA, PSU would join them in an effort to toss the lawsuit as being without merit (no standing) and recover legal costs on behalf of NCAA from any third-party claimant. Bam!

As others have said, the PSU/NCAA agreement sounds like a a plea-bargain deal -- i.e. better this (for us, mutually) than other options we can envision. The no third-party lawsuit business seems rather fishy on the face of it, certainly not something one would cite as a sign of how fair/logical/you name it this agreement was.

I wasn't directly responding to the fairness (particularly for today's athletes), but that the deal slams the door in the face of all the PSU alums who are raising hell on the message boards, saying how this is a disgrace and they will sue and so on. Bunch of enablers who are doing their very best to overlook the seriousness of the situation.

I went to a Big 10 school, but I never felt that the football program was more important than the rest of the university and certainly not its overall reputation. I can't say the same for these vocal PSU alums. I also can't get a clear sense of what proportion of alums feel PSU got a raw deal, but it sure seems a higher proportion than had this happened at some of the other Big 10 schools.

[Pete C]

Not sure what good it does taking away a dead man's victory total

Yeah, too bad he couldn't live to see it.

[Dan Gould]

I don't doubt that Joe knew what was coming down and had absolutely no will to live after his diagnosis.

As for the vacating of wins, its the coin of the realm for the NCAA, along with the bowl bans and scholarship reductions. It may be splitting hairs but I do think it would have been more reasonable to date the vacating of the wins to the 2001-2002 shower incident, as its more obvious to me that a cover-up ensued as of that date, rather than the 1998 shower incident. An argument can be made that after the 1998 incident, Paterno and his underlings in the administration could say with a straight face that they did not know of any sexual misconduct by Sandusky. After all, that was the conclusion of the police, that there was no criminality, even if they (the police) had their suspicions. And maybe you could question what Paterno et al knew in the aftermath, when you consider how Sandusky went from heir apparent to relatively young retiree, with no further involvement in college athletics. Its easy to assume it was related but what do we really know?

But after what Mcqueery witnessed, no one can deny that they covered up the acts of a pedophile.

As for the Paterno family flailing around, I say "go for it". It only does more to destroy Paterno's reputation, what little is left of it.

And finally, I don't quite understand how Bobby Bowden isn't number one on the win list, and I keep seeing it listed differently. Even if Grambling is Division 1 (and has it been so for all those years?) its not exactly major college at least as far the athletic side goes. I was so pissed when FSU struggled and Penn State got its act together and Paterno caught and exceeded Bowden's win total, and then of course he kept going after Bobby was forced out. Who'da thunk there'd be such a turn of events?

[Tim McG]

I don't doubt that Joe knew what was coming down and had absolutely no will to live after his diagnosis.

As for the vacating of wins, its the coin of the realm for the NCAA, along with the bowl bans and scholarship reductions. It may be splitting hairs but I do think it would have been more reasonable to date the vacating of the wins to the 2001-2002 shower incident, as its more obvious to me that a cover-up ensued as of that date, rather than the 1998 shower incident. An argument can be made that after the 1998 incident, Paterno and his underlings in the administration could say with a straight face that they did not know of any sexual misconduct by Sandusky. After all, that was the conclusion of the police, that there was no criminality, even if they (the police) had their suspicions. And maybe you could question what Paterno et al knew in the aftermath, when you consider how Sandusky went from heir apparent to relatively young retiree, with no further involvement in college athletics. Its easy to assume it was related but what do we really know?

But after what Mcqueery witnessed, no one can deny that they covered up the acts of a pedophile.

You know what, Dan? I offered that very same scenario when the 1998 issue first came to light during that whole media frenzy. I was summarily hammered by many on this very BBS and on the thread which is now closed.

Admittedly, I was wrong about Paterno's involvement during the 2001 incident and subsequent cover-up as was proved in the Freeh Inquiry. But, as you clearly pointed out, once the legal authorities in the 1998 case "cleared" Sandusky, there was no reason to believe, prevent or do anything else.

Seems to me if the police/prosecution/Child Protective Services had done their job, we wouldn't be discussing this now and Sandusky would have been rotting some jail beginning 14 years ago and Paterno's statue would still be standing. I won't speculate.

Out.

Edited July 24, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[Quincy]

I went to a Big 10 school, but I never felt that the football program was more important than the rest of the university and certainly not its overall reputation.

Did you go to Northwestern? Maybe you could get away with that kind of talk at Indiana, though never never never suggest such thinking about the basketball program.

[ejp626]

I went to a Big 10 school, but I never felt that the football program was more important than the rest of the university and certainly not its overall reputation.

Did you go to Northwestern? Maybe you could get away with that kind of talk at Indiana, though never never never suggest such thinking about the basketball program.

I actually was in grad school at Northwestern the year they went to the Rose Bowl. Now that was a mind-bender.

Undergrad was UMich. I'm not saying that some alumni don't take football way too seriously, but there is still some balance. Very, very few of the students I hung out with had made their decision to attend based on how great the football team or basketball team was.

[Mike Schwartz]

"Out."

Thank you Jim Rome

[Pete C]

In related Pennsylvania news, the first of the catholic clowns to do time as enabler:

http://news.yahoo.com/pa-monsignor-gets-3-6-years-sex-abuse-154117156.html

[Soulstation1]

"Out."

Thank you Jim Rome

Rack em

[Mike Schwartz]

Here they come....this is Victim #2 from the trial:

HARRISBURG, Pa. -- A man who claims to be the unknown victim molested by Jerry Sandusky in a Penn State shower in a case that led to Joe Paterno's firing intends to sue the university for its "egregious and reckless conduct" that facilitated the abuse, his lawyers said Thursday.

The lawyers have done an extensive investigation and gathered "overwhelming evidence" on details of the abuse by former assistant coach Sandusky, they said in a statement....

( Associated Press )

[Big Wheel]

In a story that is getting almost no play in national media, Graham Spanier got himself a job working for the feds on national security issues.

:wacko: :wacko:

edit - this actually happened back in April. Does anyone know if anything changed about Spanier's plans to work on projects with the government after the Freeh report came out?

Edited July 26, 2012 by Big Wheel

[sonnymax]

... An argument can be made that after the 1998 incident, Paterno and his underlings in the administration could say with a straight face that they did not know of any sexual misconduct by Sandusky. After all, that was the conclusion of the police, that there was no criminality, even if they (the police) had their suspicions....

... Admittedly, I was wrong about Paterno's involvement during the 2001 incident and subsequent cover-up as was proved in the Freeh Inquiry. But, as you clearly pointed out, once the legal authorities in the 1998 case "cleared" Sandusky, there was no reason to believe, prevent or do anything else...

While it's true that the authorities did not have enough information at the time to prosecute Sandusky in 1998, he was definitely not "cleared" of all wrongdoing. Sandusky himself admitted he was wrong to shower with and hug a child while they were both naked, and he promised the investigating detective he would not do it again. Of course, he lied, and he went on to molest and rape children for many years to come.

The vast majority of child abuse cases do not result in criminal prosecution, but families and organizations nevertheless take action to protect the safety of the children. Much like the Catholic Church, Paterno and Penn State protected themselves, not the children. They deserve everything they get, imo.

[Pete C]

Sandusky himself admitted he was wrong to shower with and hug a child while they were both naked, and he promised the investigating detective he would not do it again. Of course, he lied, and he went on to molest and rape children for many years to come.

But maybe he kept his word and quit hugging.

[GA Russell]

In related Pennsylvania news, the first of the catholic clowns to do time as enabler:

http://news.yahoo.co...-154117156.html

Pete, I have no problem with that priest serving his entire sentence. But I feel that he is a fall guy, not a decision maker. I think that it is the bishops who should most be fearing being sent up the river, not priests in their offices. Of course in this case the bishop is dead.

The judge here said that the priest could have done more, but the article doesn't say what. Short of renouncing his vows and going public, it's not clear to me what the judge expected of him. That solution wouldn't bother me and I think nearly all Catholics as well, but if that is what the judge wanted she should have said so (the article doesn't say).

[paul secor]

The trail leads all the way to the Pope imo.

[Pete C]

The trail leads all the way to the Pope imo.

He needs to be dealt with in The Hague.

But I feel that he is a fall guy, not a decision maker.

Perhaps, but that approach is very similar to Goodspeak's erstwhile defense of Paterno.

[J.A.W.]

The trail leads all the way to the Pope imo.

He needs to be dealt with in The Hague.

We don't want him

[Pete C]

We don't want him

I'd imagine you wouldn't want many of your "esteemed guests"!