Larry Kart Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Hope this link works; IMO there's some jaw-dropping misinformation here: http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-label-for-a-new-sound-1419982709?KEYWORDS=dial+records Responding to a critical Facebook response to the WSJ piece, Myers doubles down with this: "Bird's own motive [for signing with Dial] was to escape the frantic, soulless bebop of NY and record his approach, which was more blues saturated." What "frantic soulless bebop of NY" are we talking about? And, among other things, weren't most of Parker's Dial recordings made in NY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 A FB response from John Burton, which seems to refer in part to a longer version of the piece that appeared in the print edition of the WSJ: Marc Myers should be ashamed of himself for writing this. So many errors flowing from his misguided attempt to shoehorn the Bird/Dial legacy into a false story about Los Angeles jazz, black v. white, and the relationship between modern jazz and the development of R&B and Rock and Roll. Some examples: "[The Dial contract] was a breakthrough for the rising bebop star, allowing him to record his improvised blues rather than the frantic jazz style popular back in New York." Uh, no. There is not one blues on Bird's first two Dial sessions. What Bird wanted was to get out from under Dizzy Gillespie's musical domination. "Over the next two years, Dial's recordings by Parker and local bebop musicians not only radicalized jazz in Los Angeles but also had an electrifying effect on the city's 'jump blues.'" -- WTF??? "Parker was a big catch for a small label like Dial." Wrong again. Dial records was established specifically for the purpose of recording Bird. "[Ross] Russell . . . between 1946 and '48 . . . documented some of the most exciting and influential West Coast jazz of the period." Very misleading. At least half of the Bird/Dial recordings were made in NYC. No one would call most of the Dial recordings "West Coast Jazz." The Dexter Gordon/Wardell Gray/Teddy Edwards tenor battles might be the exception. "unintentionally provides a missing link between jazz and rock 'n' roll". This is just silly, IMHO "Other examples of bebop's development in L.A. include . . . Sonny Berman's Big Eight . . . and Fats Navarro." The former was in town briefly while touring with Woody Herman, a NYC based band. The Navarro sides were made in NYC. I mean, c'mon. "But despite Dial's efforts to widen bebop's appeal in Los Angeles, the music never caught on." Huh? Dial was a national label, and LA remained a secondary center for modern jazz for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Unfortunately, newspapers seem to be dying out. As that happens, the people who edit them seem to be less competent and the writers seem to be less competent and interesting. Sad, but to be expected, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Hope this link works; IMO there's some jaw-dropping misinformation here: http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-label-for-a-new-sound-1419982709?KEYWORDS=dial+records Responding to a critical Facebook response to the WSJ piece, Myers doubles down with this: "Bird's own motive [for signing with Dial] was to escape the frantic, soulless bebop of NY and record his approach, which was more blues saturated." What "frantic soulless bebop of NY" are we talking about? And, among other things, weren't most of Parker's Dial recordings made in NY? The portion of the notes to the new Dial Mosaic written by Ross Russell in 1995 include this paragraph: Charlie Parker signed a contract to record exclusively for Dial on the condition that he would have complete control of the sessions, the material to be recorded and the selection of his sidemen. Bird had lost interest in making such up-tempo, "frantic" recordings as SALT PEANUTS and A DIZZY ATMOSPHERE. "They are played too fast," he told this writer. "They are not my kind of music. I have my own tunes that I want to record." This was the basis of the contract signed after the closing hours at Tempo Music Shop on February 26, 1946. FWIW, the discography (and Russell in his notes) indicates that there were seven Parker-led Dial sessions. The first four (from March 1946 - February 1947) were recorded in Hollywood. The remaining three (from October 1947 - December 1947) were recorded in NYC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Marc Meyers early frontrunner for jazz fool of 2015 and it's hard to imagine who's dopey and careless enough to beat him. Truly, that's a pathetic piece of writing-- I won't call it "history" because it's not, it's bullshit, and I won't call it "criticism" because he's thought about, and reasoned, nothing; he's just chirping a hodgepodge of made-up and garbled inanities. Ofay Marc Meyers, define "soulless"? Funny part is a soulless hack like Meyers types that up and when he's busted on it-- as he should have been upon submitting the damn thing to any professional publication-- he gets all aggro at those who actually read him. I guess we can assume Myers has not or recalled Robert Gordon, Ted Gioia, the RJ Smith Central Ave book for starters. Nor the contemporary BLACK press (NY, Chi, L.A.) about bebop generally and Dizzy, Bird, and R&B specifically which, while rarely the most musically sophisticated journals, did do pretty well placing the music in its context within the black show biz continuum. Etc etc but I'm not getting paid to do Marc Myers job. At best, maybe he should stick to interviewing the living instead of trying to pretend understanding of the past? I'd say "nuanced" past but Myers is so far from operating on that level... Edited January 2, 2015 by MomsMobley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I am VERY interested not only in bebop but just as much in post-war R&B/jump blues and also in rock'n'roll (i.e., in this context, the roots of rock'n'roll) so a box set that explores widely ignored examples of cross-fertilization between bebop and jump blues would be VERY welcomed - but THIS?? In the context of Charlie Parker and Dial?? Ho hum .. Never mind the East Coast vs West Coast debate, but could it be that Marc Myers has been listening to a totally different box set focusing on Leo Parker and Gene Ammons? (Now there you have two artists who straddle the fence between bop and R&B, including one Parker!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Hope this link works; IMO there's some jaw-dropping misinformation here: http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-label-for-a-new-sound-1419982709?KEYWORDS=dial+records Responding to a critical Facebook response to the WSJ piece, Myers doubles down with this: "Bird's own motive [for signing with Dial] was to escape the frantic, soulless bebop of NY and record his approach, which was more blues saturated." What "frantic soulless bebop of NY" are we talking about? And, among other things, weren't most of Parker's Dial recordings made in NY? The portion of the notes to the new Dial Mosaic written by Ross Russell in 1995 include this paragraph: Charlie Parker signed a contract to record exclusively for Dial on the condition that he would have complete control of the sessions, the material to be recorded and the selection of his sidemen. Bird had lost interest in making such up-tempo, "frantic" recordings as SALT PEANUTS and A DIZZY ATMOSPHERE. "They are played too fast," he told this writer. "They are not my kind of music. I have my own tunes that I want to record." This was the basis of the contract signed after the closing hours at Tempo Music Shop on February 26, 1946. FWIW, the discography (and Russell in his notes) indicates that there were seven Parker-led Dial sessions. The first four (from March 1946 - February 1947) were recorded in Hollywood. The remaining three (from October 1947 - December 1947) were recorded in NYC. I wasn't thinking of number of sessions but amount of recorded/issued material. Maybe my reckoning is off, but I count 27 eventually issued takes from Dial's Parker Hollywood dates and 32 eventually issued takes from Dial's Parker NYC dates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) But wouldn't the number of original sessions be more indicative of any primary geographic impact that they may have had (assuming that indie labels would initially be distributed above all in the area where they were recorded and pressed before achieving nationwide distribution)? No, I DON'T think that what Myers says is valid in this form but yet I think that in order to try to evaluate the original reach of the music from that period at all you would have to think in terms of the typical original 4-tune/2 78 rpm record session format prevalent in those days. What may have been released much, much later by way of alternate takes etc. is fairly irrelevant to the way the recordings and records were perceived originally IMHO. Edited January 1, 2015 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Issued-at-that-time Dial Parker recordings (if I'm counting correctly): made in Hollywood, 17; made in NYC, 18. As for "primary geographic impact" -- as John Burton said in post #2, Dial was a national label. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 that quote from Ross Russell about Bird himself wanting to get away from the frantic stuff is highly suspect. More likely Bird was thinking maybe he should do some ballads to appeal to a wider audience. That makes sense. But just about everything in Bird Lives that Russell wrote that I asked some of the survivors about - Haig, Curley, Tommy Potter, Maggie - was labled by those guys with complete derision. So I would generally ignore what he says, though Myers clearly has used those quotes as a base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I generally like Marc's blog, but I think he missed the mark with the WSJ article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Issued-at-that-time Dial Parker recordings (if I'm counting correctly): made in Hollywood, 17; made in NYC, 18. As for "primary geographic impact" -- as John Burton said in post #2, Dial was a national label. Sorry, wasn't trying to nit-pick. Hell, I previously thought they were all recorded in CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Marc's a nice guy who does a good deal of nice work, but I learned early on in my days as a journalist how important it is to know when you don't know something. I've blown it along those lines a few times, and it was a bad feeling. Issued-at-that-time Dial Parker recordings (if I'm counting correctly): made in Hollywood, 17; made in NYC, 18. As for "primary geographic impact" -- as John Burton said in post #2, Dial was a national label. Sorry, wasn't trying to nit-pick. Hell, I previously thought they were all recorded in CA Sorry -- I overstated the case there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBop Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Kind of off topic, but I was startled to see picture of Wardell (and Dex) in the Journal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I generally like Marc's blog, but I think he missed the mark with the WSJ article. Sums it up for me exactly. He often highlights lesser known or artists who have faded from view. Maybe too much eggnog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I'm surprised no one highlighted this gem: A growing percentage of the city’s white population had migrated from the South and Southwest after the war, and the region’s suburban sprawl wasn’t conducive to bebop’s grinding intensity. I mean what the hell does that mean? Living cheek-by-jowl in NYC is "conducive to bebop's grinding intensity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) I'm surprised no one highlighted this gem: A growing percentage of the city’s white population had migrated from the South and Southwest after the war, and the region’s suburban sprawl wasn’t conducive to bebop’s grinding intensity. I mean what the hell does that mean? Living cheek-by-jowl in NYC is "conducive to bebop's grinding intensity? Bebop flourishing (or at least finding it easier to get some response) in the climate of a dense network of clubs, bars, lounges (any place that featuered live music, or other venues where music blared out to the public through P.A. systems) where you literally just had to drop out of your bed to end up in front of the bandstand? As opposed to "sleeping suburbs" where you would have to travel some distance to catch any sort of "niche" live entertainment at all (the suburbian neighborhood tavern where the sole jukebox is stocked with the latest pop or country fare only doesn't count)? Just guessing ... Edited January 2, 2015 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Then a logical sentence would be "Southern California didn't have as many clubs booking jazz and gigs were hard to come by." Doesn't have a damn thing to do with "grinding intensity". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 IMO your sentence says something else again: Not having enough clubs is not the same as not having enough customers of the target audience who live closely nearby and tend to go club hopping each night. California DID have its share of clubs AFAIK (see the books etc. on the subject of Central Avenue, for example) though no region could probably have competed with New York (but that's a high yardstick anyway) but maybe the population density and spread AND their personal background (of those who had moved in only fairly recently) actually WAS different at that time and that MAY have played a role? (Sociologists to the fore! ) As for "grinding intensity" - oh well, you know how too many scribes's minds work - throw in images, allusions, indirect statements, alliterations (whatever) by the shovelful .. just to conjure up the image of the literarily proficient ... all for fear of a rather more "matter-of-fact"-like style that might see them labeled as being too dry or too "scholarly". Besides ... if you throw around images you will be harder to pin down in your statements ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Being a native New Yawkuh, I can understand what he means by "grinding intensity." Just go out in Manhattan any night. Tons of people, traffic, noise, intense people, the pace, competition...it can all be reflected in the music produced there. A more laid-back SoCal might not have related to all that intensity; like, what's the rush? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Yes that makes sense. At least the "intensity" part of it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.