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Kamasi Washington: NYT Magazine profile


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1 hour ago, marcello said:

The distributor is everything. I believe Warner Brothers is the distributor for ECM, and obviously they do a wonderful job for them. Other than that, each B&N music department manager, in each individual store, can order what they want.

Apparently there are a few odd items here and there which they can order only if the customer agrees to not come into the store to pick them up.

Surely this is not an attempted effect, but just as surely, it is a real one.

At that point,, I'm like, you know, fuck going in there, what do they have that I can't get anywhere else?

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Borders got to be just as bad, I kept going into the Plano store for new releases and they were like, we don't have it here, but they do have it in Dallas. So I'd schlep down to Dallas, supporting "local" stores and all that, besides, I like car time. Then in Dallas it got to be, well no, we don't have that, we don't have the shelf space for that, but we can order it for you, and then was when I got all, well, fuck that, I can order it my own damn self, what do I need you for?

The financials of Borders & B*N apparently were very different, because obviously only one survived, but, really, I'm the type of shopper that getting me in the store is the real battle, once I'm in there, I'll surely find something to buy, a freakin' Louis Armstrong bookmark or an Albert Einstein memo pad, something.. But sending me the message that not only am I too dumb to order off the internet, but you'd just as soon I not come in to look for what I want, what, I am not welcome to come into your store of my own volition and out of my own curiosity, just stay home and we'll send it to you? A place like that, I cannot laugh hard enough if/when it finally goes under.

I laugh in these people's faces when they tell me they can "order it for ya'!", because hey - the internet is its own middleman. You bring no value to this equation sir or madam, and I will not read your book, not any more.

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More to the immediate point, though - I buy a "lot" of music, new and used, online and "in person", but if you were to use my consumption at Barnes & Noble as an indicator of anything, you'd think I had the same collection now as I did 4-5 years ago, that I've just gotten old and given up. My wife no doubt wishes it were so, but, sorry baby, when you pick your battles, don't think I don't consider it a blessing from above that you never pick this one.

So, all anybody got to do to get physical product to an audience without resorting to this megachain silliness is just find alternative outlets, where your audience hangs out, and place the product accordingly and proportionately. One thing hasn't changed since the goodolddays - you can still buy records at some unconventional places - I bought some Oum Kalsoum stuff at a freakin' buffet restaurant, came to eat, went home with a feast.

"Independent" anything, start looking there, and the more ethnic- or age- or art- specific it is, look all that much harder. Because a lot of people don't go to Barnes & Noble to get what they want, nor do they really need to. And really - word of mouth and a good server...you can have a hit and nobody will hear about it other than the people who know about it.

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7 hours ago, Hot Ptah said:

Some Barnes and Noble stores have added significantly to their inventory in the past two years. The Kansas City store on the Plaza had little music selection a few years ago but it has bounced back and now has a decent selection again. I am pleasantly surprised.

I haven't been in that store in many years (probably 6 to 7), but I didn't even recall it having a music section! So it must have been small. 

Edited by Scott Dolan
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1 hour ago, Scott Dolan said:

I haven't been in that store in many years (probably 6 to 7), but I didn't even recall it having a music section! So it must have been small. 

The entire basement was music when it opened. The selection in the basement shifted to mostly DVDs and Blu Rays at one point. Now the music section has taken over more of the basement again.

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7 hours ago, JSngry said:

More to the immediate point, though - I buy a "lot" of music, new and used, online and "in person", but if you were to use my consumption at Barnes & Noble as an indicator of anything, you'd think I had the same collection now as I did 4-5 years ago, that I've just gotten old and given up. My wife no doubt wishes it were so, but, sorry baby, when you pick your battles, don't think I don't consider it a blessing from above that you never pick this one.

So, all anybody got to do to get physical product to an audience without resorting to this megachain silliness is just find alternative outlets, where your audience hangs out, and place the product accordingly and proportionately. One thing hasn't changed since the goodolddays - you can still buy records at some unconventional places - I bought some Oum Kalsoum stuff at a freakin' buffet restaurant, came to eat, went home with a feast.

"Independent" anything, start looking there, and the more ethnic- or age- or art- specific it is, look all that much harder. Because a lot of people don't go to Barnes & Noble to get what they want, nor do they really need to. And really - word of mouth and a good server...you can have a hit and nobody will hear about it other than the people who know about it.

Every city is different. I REALLY REALLY did NOT mean to turn this thread into a discussion of the merits of Barnes and Noble when I mentioned that I could not buy Kamasi Washington's "The Epic" there. I used Barnes and Noble as an example ONLY,  of how there is no huge 1970s style promotional campaign behind the album which is catapulting Kamasi Washington into undeserved fame and riches, while more artistically deserving artists continue to struggle. That is not happening if my city is typical.

i should have not mentioned the name of the store where I could not buy "The Epic." I mentioned Barnes and Noble ONLY because it is literally the only brick and mortar store in Kansas City now where you can pop in and buy a current new release on CD. The other brick and mortar stores in Kansas City are used music stores or unique specialty shops reflecting the personality of the owner, who is usually sitting at the cash register. 

I did not mean to even discuss the pros and cons of current Barnes and Noble stores nationwide.

Edited by Hot Ptah
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Paramus Barnes & Noble- the one with the big(ger) jazz selection)

765 Route 17 South
Paramus, NJ 07652
201-445-4589

Same thing - I can order for you, but for home delivery only. Although, this guy did say he could "take a chance" on ordering a store copy, but if he did that, he's have to be sure of an almost immediate turnover. But as far as placing an order, prepaid, of course, for store pickup. Nope, couldn't happen.

I don't know what the Paramusstore  is like, but around here, I've seen stock on the B&N shelves that's been there 3-5 years. But at least this guy offered a theoretical possibility of The Epic being on his shelves, even though he didn't act like he wanted it to be. Fear of the unknown, perhaps?

And again, this "I can order it for you to have it delivered to your house:...I can do that myself, why do they think this is something I'm gonna get excited about, them offering to do this for me?

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41 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Paramus Barnes & Noble- the one with the big(ger) jazz selection)

765 Route 17 South
Paramus, NJ 07652
201-445-4589

Same thing - I can order for you, but for home delivery only. Although, this guy did say he could "take a chance" on ordering a store copy, but if he did that, he's have to be sure of an almost immediate turnover. But as far as placing an order, prepaid, of course, for store pickup. Nope, couldn't happen.

I don't know what the Paramusstore  is like, but around here, I've seen stock on the B&N shelves that's been there 3-5 years. But at least this guy offered a theoretical possibility of The Epic being on his shelves, even though he didn't act like he wanted it to be. Fear of the unknown, perhaps?

And again, this "I can order it for you to have it delivered to your house:...I can do that myself, why do they think this is something I'm gonna get excited about, them offering to do this for me?

Why don't you call every one in the nation? :)

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Getting back on topic ..

I just watched/listened to The Epic on youtube.

The music is OK, nothing amazing IMHO. I lost interest with it after a while.

There once was a much more original big band with it's leader also dressed unconventionally. It was called the Sun Ra Arkestra.  I am surprised no one here has drawn the parallels between Sun Ra's and Kamasi's acts. Am I off by comparing the two?

Even though I was less than thrilled about the music, I'm glad there's an act like him. It's always good to have the non-jazz listeners exposed to our music. Because all of us were non-jazz listeners once.

 

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21 hours ago, Steve Reynolds said:

They stock ultra-obscure ECM issues but not The Epic?!? 

No way some of those odd ECM CDs sell one tenth whatever The Epic is selling

Maybe the audiences for the two are different.  Easy to imagine that some older shoppers (like ECM fans) still like to frequent record stores whereas youngsters (Kamasi fans) do not.  It might simply be that ECM's distribution network is suffering from inefficient inertia.

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30 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

Getting back on topic ..

I just watched/listened to The Epic on youtube.

The music is OK, nothing amazing IMHO. I lost interest with it after a while.

There once was a much more original big band with it's leader also dressed unconventionally. It was called the Sun Ra Arkestra.  I am surprised no one here has drawn the parallels between Sun Ra's and Kamasi's acts. Am I off by comparing the two?

Even though I was less than thrilled about the music, I'm glad there's an act like him. It's always good to have the non-jazz listeners exposed to our music. Because all of us were non-jazz listeners once.

 

I saw Sun Ra live many times. He was very much more creative, unusual and wild in concert. He was out and out strange at times, in a good way. I don't really see the parallels with Kamasi Washington. It would be like saying that some young guy with long hair who plays electric guitar is reminiscent of Frank Zappa live. It is like another universe apart.

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23 minutes ago, Hot Ptah said:

I saw Sun Ra live many times. He was very much more creative, unusual and wild in concert. He was out and out strange at times, in a good way. I don't really see the parallels with Kamasi Washington. It would be like saying that some young guy with long hair who plays electric guitar is reminiscent of Frank Zappa live. It is like another universe apart.

No , I think your Zappa analogy doesn't play here.

Parallels between Kamasi  and Sun Ra:

1.Two large scale orchestras + singers & dancers, playing non-conventional music.

2.Both play original tunes, no standards.

3.Both woodshed-ed, and pretty much lived together with other band members [according to the NYT piece on KW that's what he did/does].

4.Both would draw large non-jazz audiences. For example, I heard Sun Ra on the same bill with the Sonic Youth. 

Those are just the obvious similarities.

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36 minutes ago, Guy Berger said:

Maybe the audiences for the two are different.  Easy to imagine that some older shoppers (like ECM fans) still like to frequent record stores whereas youngsters (Kamasi fans) do not.  It might simply be that ECM's distribution network is suffering from inefficient inertia.

That's an excellent point. As I said earlier, CDs are dinosaurs, so your logic makes perfect sense. It's almost exclusively dinosaurs that are still buying them. 

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20 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

That's an excellent point. As I said earlier, CDs are dinosaurs, so your logic makes perfect sense. It's almost exclusively dinosaurs that are still buying them. 

The corollary of this is that KW could still have good or even great marketing support behind him that's not being wasted on record stores.

Also, related but unlikely (but someone more familiar with the production side of physical media can chime in) - it may be that the CD is selling so well through other distribution channels that there simply isn't enough stock available to supply a random record store.

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As someone noted, this has focused too much on Barnes & Noble.  In looking for a CD that is probably the last place I'd look.  In its heyday, Borders had -- at least the ones around here -- a pretty good Jazz section (which, as it started to get into financial trouble, shrunk).  Borders' book sections were also much better than Barnes & Noble, which I generally find wanting.  If I wanted to buy a jazz CD, it would be Amazon or CD Universe for me, definitely not B & N.

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