Auctions...

[Hardbopjazz]

When bidding on something you see on Ebay, what's the best way to increase your chances of winning?

Is making a high bid better then waiting to the last moment to make a bid? I recently made to high bids, the most I was willing to pay for albums, and when the auction ended for both, I lost out. Someone came in with less the 2 minutes and out bid me on both items. This leads me to believe, waiting till the end would give you a better chance of winning. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

[Brad]

What I like to use to do is not bid until the last second and then bounce. The other theory is bid early and bid what you'd want to pay and then forget it. Otherwise you get into a war and you pay more than what you wanted to pay for an item or what it's worth. Unfortunately, I don't have as much time as I used to do, so I just bid when I see an item and let it ride. But if it's something you really want and have to have, you have to be vigilant and be ready to bid at the last second, especially on rare items. A lot of bidders just like to pounce. I'm not sure I answered your question. It depends on your style. It also depends on the item. For rare Mosaics, that tend to get expensive, I say wait till the last possible second.

[Jim Alfredson]

That's usually the modus operandi for anything you really want to win on Ebay, unless there's a Buy It Now option. It's called sniping, it sucks, but it's the nature of the beast.

I usually bid within 1 minute of the auction closes. Since I have a broadband connection, I sometimes bid about 15 seconds before it ends. Of course, you always risk something happening and your bid not going through with that tactic.

[connoisseur series500]

I don't think it really matters when you put your bid in.

I've won many auctions by just putting in the highest price I'm willing to pay and just leave it. Then I've won others by sniping at the end.

As I type this, I just lost out on a book because I was sniping and my first sniped bid wasn't high enough. I timed out before I could increase it.

The bottom line is that if there are a host of others desiring the same thing then you are likely to lose out employing either method. If you are the only one or there are just a handful of interested bidders then either method will succeed.

I don't know if there's a single correct way to do it and ensure success. I don't think so.

[Jazzmoose]

I have one rule: bid only once on an item. I'll admit, I've broken my own rule a few times, but I usually regret it. Either bid early whatever your top price is and forget it, or bid late, in the last few seconds. Unlike Jim, I have no problem with sniping, and it's my preferred method if I really want something. It sounds underhanded if you're only used to the typical "going, going, gone" auctions, but eBay is a timed auction, and that's an entirely different beast. Think of it as a "sealed bid" auction, and get your bid in at the deadline. Of course, none of this guarantees a win. There is a way to pretty much guarantee a win, but only an idiot would use it: bid $10,000 on any CD you want, and you're probably pretty safe. Of course, if some other fanatic tries it as well and bids $9,000, you're going to have a very small, very expensive music library...

By the way, if you're going to go with sniping, I do recommend a sniping service. Unless you enjoy sitting at your computer on eBay at all hours of the day.

And Jim, a true sniper would laugh at calling a bid with 15 seconds to go a "snipe". If it ain't under 10, it doesn't count. My best, with manual sniping is one second. And I have dial-up.

[Jazzmoose]

As I type this, I just lost out on a book because I was sniping and my first sniped bid wasn't high enough. I timed out before I could increase it.

Well, actually, that's the whole point to sniping. With a properly executed snipe, not only do you not have time for a second bid, no one else has time to respond if your snipe is successful. The key to a successful snipe is this: you must calculate your true maximum bid. If you were actually willing to bid more, and didn't, then you shouldn't have been sniping. If you bid your true maximum bid, and someone else bids more, you should be confident that they overpaid. As the snipers maxim goes: Bid once. Bid your max. And bid at the last possible second.

[Peter Johnson]

And Jim, a true sniper would laugh at calling a bid with 15 seconds to go a "snipe". If it ain't under 10, it doesn't count. My best, with manual sniping is one second. And I have dial-up.

Agree...I usually open two windows, side-by-side, and refresh one in the last 30 seconds of an auction if I want something. I've got my max in the other window ready to go...and then BAM! Of course, sometimes I mess up the windows and hit the wrong "place bid" button, without putting in an amount. Ugh. I've done the one-second thing too...it's nuts, really!

[Rooster_Ties]

As the snipers maxim goes:  Bid once.  Bid your max.  And bid at the last possible second.

This is totally the way to go. Bid once. Bid your own personal maximum bid. And bid at the last possible second.

Of course, this gets to be a pain, especially if you happen to have a life - and can't sit by your computer at any given instant, poised and waiting to bid.

That's why there's 3rd-party sniping tools and sites. The one I use is "www.auctionstealer.com". They give you 5 free snipes per month, and I've used them for well over a year, and probably closer to 2 years. I don't bid on eBay all that often, so I usually fnd that I rarely need more than 5 snipes in any given month. But for those bidding on more stuff, they have subscription rates that more than pay for themselves (I suspect), when you weigh them against the money you save by sniping. You see, by bidding at the very, very end -- you will often win auctions at lower prices than you might otherwise win. Here's their FAQ...

What is sniping?

All sniping means is you wait till the last possible second to place your bid on an online auction. This not only masks what items you are bidding on but it also gets you the same item at a much better price. Sniping goes on every day of every week and now you can do it too.

Why should I snipe?

Bidders that have been using auction sites for years have learned that by waiting till the last second you can save money and not deal with the headache of a bidding war. Why pay more...if you don't have to? By placing your bid through AuctionStealer you will end up on top.

What will this service do for me?

AuctionStealer is an online auction sniping program which automatically places your bid at the last possible moment. You simply enter in the auction item number, your max bid, and the buffer time (number of seconds before the end of the auction) and AuctionStealer handles the rest. Your item will constantly be monitored for changes in price and you can be notified by email if any drastic changes occur.

In the last few seconds of the auction (between 15 and 3), AuctionStealer places your bid for you and determines the outcome. Our system currently can submit your bid in as little as a half a second at times. AuctionStealer will help you win more auctions and at a better price.

Why use AuctionStealer?

Hands down we have the best system. No one else in the online sniping business can place a bid as fast as AuctionStealer.

The price is unbeatable. FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE! You could go out and buy software for as much as forty dollars, but why? You will still need to have your computer turned on and an internet connection will need to be available. AuctionStealer doesn't require anything from your PC at the end of the auction. With our high speed internet connection and servers we will place your bids faster and better.

If you use the conventional sniping method, you must be at your computer and online. Now sit back, relax and enjoy the rest of your week. AuctionStealer places bids twenty four hours a day, seven days a week.

Why is it free?

We believe that everyone should be able to take advantage of our services even if you only bid on one or two items a year. We have placed banner advertisements through out the site which AuctionStealer is using to generate revenue and we also have a pay service called the Priority Service which gives you access to more advanced tools/features.

The best thing about auctionstealer is that your PC doesn't have to be on or connected to the internet. Their servers do the sniping for you. You do have to give them your eBay password (so they can bid for you within the last 10 seconds), but I did this probably 18 to 24 months ago, and have never had a problem.

[jazzhound]

figure out what the item is worth then add 50%

[Stefan Wood]

I think it is also worth it to be patient. Even "rare" lps will show up again.

[Hardbopjazz]

I think it is also worth it to be patient. Even "rare" lps will show up again.

This is true. I had placed bids on 2 LP with a starting price of 4.99. I made a max bid of 24 dollars for both. Went to bed with 1 hour to go and both were still at 4.99. When I woke up, I lost both.

Wait till they appear next time. I'll hold my bidding till the end.

[Jazzmoose]

I think it is also worth it to be patient. Even "rare" lps will show up again.

No doubt. My "want list" is way too long to go batshit on one auction; there's always something I want...

[BeBop]

How does bidding at the last minute, second, nanosecond increase your chances (assuming bidders are rational)?

Perhaps that's the answer; bidders aren't rational.

So, the theory behind sniping is apparently that one is bidding against parties who have not put in their "maximum" bid and who aren't paying attention at the last second (or have a dial-up connection or don't employ a sniping service). It all seems rather infantile. "I'm going to hide in the weeds and jump out and trump your bid by $0.04 at the last second, then dance and clap with glee."

To the extent I bid, I just bid the most I am willing to pay and leave it at that. My bid doesn't go up unless someone else escalates it. And if they're willing to pay more than my max, it's all theirs. I don't have time (which, incidentally, is money) to monitor the entire eBay community.

There are some items I have seen once or never in six years (or however long it's been since I started with Yahoo! Auctions, eBay and the like). Life's harsh. The antics of snipers ease the pain - they're quite amusing as they work through their frenzy and often overpay, at least by my valuation. And that's their right.

Don't mean to disparage anyone's activities, but I do find myself amused and confused by it all.

[Jazzmoose]

BeBop, the rationale is indeed that many bidders do NOT bid their true maximum. The bidder who bids half what they are willing to pay and thinks they're going to get a great deal is at the mercy of the sniper.

Secondly, while cheating on eBay may not be rampant, it isn't rare, either. I've seen auctions where the seller under another name, or a friend of the seller, bumps up the bid incrementally until the other bidders max is revealed, then cancels their bid that passes it because "it was a mistake". The bidder may not be bidding against anyone, yet still pays their max because of cheating. Sniping eliminates this possibility.

And it may seem infantile to you, but for most bidders, winning the auction is actually the point...

(Edited to add....)

By the way, my actual bidding is quite similar to yours. It's just that I make my bid through auctionstealer.com and let them handle the snipe. There's no monitoring involved. It's just bid and forget it.

Edited March 1, 2004 by Jazzmoose

[Hardbopjazz]

I'm baffled. I lost another auction. I was the only bidder till less then 10 seconds. The opening bid was $15 for an OOP Argo LP. I made a max bid of $26 for it. There was less then 10 seconds left and someone, with just one bid beat me out. How can you defend against sniping or whatever. Now the winner had over 1500 auctions to his name. Maybe there is a fine art to this. I refreshed with just over 10 seconds left and I was still the only bidder. The next thing I know, the auction ended and I was not the winner.

Edited March 2, 2004 by Hardbopjazz

[Rooster_Ties]

Nothing to be baffled about. Hardbopjazz, I'll bet you a dollar that the guy who won used a third-party sniping tool/site, and he simply had a higher maximum bid than you did.

Repeat after me...

Bid once, bid the very most you're willing to pay for the item, and bid within the last 10 seconds of the auction.

This doesn't mean you'll win every auction, but you will win more auctions that you might otherwise, and you'll pay less over time too.

There's no way to "defend" against someone bidding more than you at the last second, even if you also bid at the last second. It just means that someone had a higher max-bid than you did, and there's always that danger.

The only way to perfectly defend against not loosing auctions is to bid super-mega-high max-bid prices, like $10,000, so that you are the high-bidder, no matter what anyone else bids (even at the last second).

[BeBop]

Jazzmoose,

Thanks for the explanation. Truly helpful. Not likely to change my bidding approach, but I'm down to bidding once every six months or so anyway.

[Hardbopjazz]

Nothing to be baffled about. Hardbopjazz, I'll bet you a dollar that the guy who won used a third-party sniping tool/site, and he simply had a higher maximum bid than you did.

Repeat after me...

Bid once, bid the very most you're willing to pay for the item, and bid within the last 10 seconds of the auction.

This doesn't mean you'll win every auction, but you will win more auctions that you might otherwise, and you'll pay less over time too.

There's no way to "defend" against someone bidding more than you at the last second, even if you also bid at the last second. It just means that someone had a higher max-bid than you did, and there's always that danger.

The only way to perfectly defend against not loosing auctions is to bid super-mega-high max-bid prices, like $10,000, so that you are the high-bidder, no matter what anyone else bids (even at the last second).

Roster, when auction ended, there only 2 bids. Mine which was the opening, and this other person. He made have thrown in a very high bid.

I don't think I can put in a $10,000 bid. I would have the fear that he would do the same with a $9,000 bid. I guess I could always refuse to buy the item.

[J.A.W.]

I guess I could always refuse to buy the item.

...and be suspended or banned from eBay.

[Hardbopjazz]

I guess I could always refuse to buy the item.

...and be suspended or banned from eBay.

Yes true. But $10,000 is too much for an LP.

[J.A.W.]

I guess I could always refuse to buy the item.

...and be suspended or banned from eBay.

Yes true. But $10,000 is too much for an LP.

Easy solution: don't bid $10,000.

[Rooster_Ties]

Come on, people. If you don't have the highest bid, then somebody else is gonna win. What's so hard to understand about that?? If you absolutely can't stand to loose in a particular auction, then bid as much as the GNP. Otherwise, bid as much as you really would want to pay for an item, and either that's the highest bid, or it isn't. Nothing to be "baffled" about, no matter who bids when.

Back to the discussion of "sniping"...

The whole point of sniping is that you don't show your cards (or even anounce your interest in an auction), until the very last second - or last 10 seconds. If an auction doesn't have any bidders at all, then someone who stumbles on the auction in the last hour or two may bid $5 or $10 for something, thinking that they are picking up a bargain. If your highest bid for this item is $25, then by waiting until the very end, you don't give anyone else a chance to chip away at your bid, until they finally outbid you. This happened to me once, before I started using a third-party sniping tool.

About two years ago, I had already discovered that bidding at the very end was the way to go -- because I had been outbid before at the very end, several times. (And I always ended up loosing at a price-point that was below my absolute maximum bid, if I had been given the chance to bid again (one more time), after the final bids came in at the last second.)

True Story: (and there's a lesson to be learned here): So, a couple of years ago, there's this eBay auction for this really obscure OOP classical CD that I've been looking for, for 3 or 4 years. (The disc had three obscure 20th-century trumpet concertos.) I've never actually seen the disc before (or seen it on-line anywhere either), and I REALLY wanted it, come hell or high water. But the auction closed in the middle of when I literally had to be on-stage for a performance of the Brahm Requiem (I sing in the Kansas City Symphony Chorus).

So, 2 hours before the auction closes, there's still no bids on the CD, and the minimum bid required is only $5. Now I really want to make sure I win this thing, so I bid $50 for it, thinking that I'll probably get it for $5 (if nobody else bids on it), or maybe $10 or $12 at most (if anybody else even notices it).

So I get home from the gig with the symphony, and -- yes -- I had won the auction. But some guy was also REALLY interested in the disc, and in the last 10 minutes of the auction, he had bid 15 or 20 times for it, chipping away at my maximum bid, dollar by dollar, until he finally gave up at $46 or $47 dollars. OUCH!!!!

This was a couple years ago, before I discovered the sniping tools (I use www.auctionstealer.com). But if I had been able to place my bid for this CD at the very last second (last 10 seconds), this guy would have only probably bid $8 or $10 (one of his opening bids, when nobody else had bid on it, including me), and I would have won the CD for something much closer to $10 or $12, or certainly less than $20. But, because I bid 2 hours earlier, then I gave the guy the chance to keep bidding against me, bid by bid, dollar by dollar. And if I hadn't bid $50 (which I never dreamed it would ever even come close to), I would have lost. Also, I could have just as easily bid $40, or $35. I only picked $50 - just cuz that seemed like a reasonable "crazy" amount (but nothing as crazy as $10,000).

This is why I always try to bid at the very, very end. I'm sure I lost $25 or even $35 or $40 that night, on this one auction, simply because I placed my bid early.

Edited March 2, 2004 by Rooster_Ties

[marcoliv]

i wasn't aware about sniping tools and now i understand how the hell i lost 2 items lasting less than 10 seconds...

thanks Rooster for the advise!

Marcus Oliveira

[Hardbopjazz]

Now made it very clear Rooster.

Thanks.

[Jazzmoose]

Another perceived advantage to sniping, particularly on auctions with no bids late in the game: This is just going by gut feeling, so it's probably bullshit, but I swear it seems like one bid attracts others. The more bids an item has going into the last day, the more people seem to want it. If there are no bids until the last minute, it goes cheap, even if the same item had multiple bidders competing the last time around! Like I say, this is totally anecdotal, and probably just my imagination, but what the hell...