Rendell Carr 5tet rides again

[Big Beat Steve]

Common business sense having gone out the window?

I fully understand your feelings.

[JSngry]

They've been doing that for years. And they do send you an email notification when the item comes back in.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

That's what the woman on the phone said too, "That's been the way they do things here from before I started working here". My response was, "Well, that doesn't make it right. It's bad business".

I have this nasty part of my day that prevents me from waiting for Dusty's next "Back in stock" E-mail - it's called work.

They can notify me but with the pent up demand this set is garnering, I doubt that I'll get it the next round.

[JSngry]

Jesus, just have the email come to your phone if there's that much urgency.

I mean, I had that Rufus Harley album with Sonny Stitt fail my first order of it, and they put me on that notify list. It took more than a year, but when they got one back in, I got that email.

It's good sense, really. It's better for them to hit you back and say hey, we got this,now do you still want it? than to say, hey this cat ordered it, let's just bill and send. In the interim, you find the same item someplace else and then one day there's a box waiting for you and you get all WTF? and call them up and tell them hey fockers, i already got his, i didn't ask you to send it again, and then there's all that drama that nobody needs.

Besides, they deal in limited quantities. The one that they sent you that you didn't want and now they have to wait for you to send it back, could have already found a stable home and they've gotten their money.

This is the way they've always done it. Seriously.

[Dan Gould]

I feel Kevin's pain but I lean towards Jim's view, it can take an unknown amount of time for anything to come back into stock and do people stop searching in the interim, particularly in this day and age when you have the world at your fingertips?  

What would be helpful would be an email that explains, "not in stock, we're canceling the order and putting you on the email notification list when it comes back."  Keeping the customer in the dark about that is not kosher.

[sidewinder]

The 1000 copy limit on this box is causing as much chaos and gnashing of teeth as Brexit. Should have been 5000.

Even with the Jazzman site ordering direct on release day, it would appear that there was only a very short window of opportunity.

Edited December 11, 2018 by sidewinder

[Big Beat Steve]

1 minute ago, Dan Gould said:

What would be helpful would be an email that explains, "not in stock, we're canceling the order and putting you on the email notification list when it comes back."  Keeping the customer in the dark about that is not kosher.

That's the point.

[Dan Gould]

9 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

That's the point.

Yeah but not really. Kevin wants them to keep a list of pending orders for when they get it back, and issue an email notification to people who requested one if and only if there are copies left over.  That's like a hierarchy of waiting. 

[sonnymax]

On 12/9/2018 at 5:02 PM, Dave James said:

If you're truly desperate, both these titles are on iTunes.  "Shades of Blue" will run you $7.99 and "Dusk Fire", $9.99.

And all five LPs are available to stream from Spotify © 2018 Universal Music. 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I order stuff online all the time. Stuff I order is out of stock by the time they get to my order all the time. What happens almost everywhere, is that I get an E-mail that the item is backordered. Normally, I can either wait or E-mail them or visit the website to cancel that order. If your item is backordered for a certain period of time, most websites automatically cancel your order and notify you that the item is no longer available. This is a system in use at most online vendors. This is normal business operation for online vendors with variable inventory. Clearly Dusty Groove is not normal.

1 hour ago, Dan Gould said:

Yeah but not really. Kevin wants them to keep a list of pending orders for when they get it back, and issue an email notification to people who requested one if and only if there are copies left over.  That's like a hierarchy of waiting. 

I believe that it would be more like honoring the orders already placed and not giving equal treatment to someone who may have gotten on the wait list the day before. It should have nothing to do with a waiting list. If the "In stock" button was the "Send In Stock Notice" button (like it has now), we wouldn't be having this conversation.

BTW - check this out: https://www.discogs.com/The-Don-Rendell-Ian-Carr-Quintet-The-Complete-Lansdowne-Recordings-1965-1969/release/12863758

[clifford_thornton]

yeah I suspected that a lot of shops did get their distro orders filled and are just doing speculator markup bullshit. So lame.

as for Dusty, they probably only got a few in. Whenever I try to buy something from them and it's out of stock, I'm automatically put on the notification list. Standard practice as it's been since the '90s.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

All of this stuff about it being "the way it always was" does not somehow make this the proper way to do it. This box is a limited edition that's in big demand right now and if they somehow manage to get in another couple of boxes, there is very little likelihood that I will get one. I'm just not that on top of my personal E-mail waiting for Dusty Groove E-mails with bated breath. And no, I am not giving Dusty Groove my work E-mail.

A lot of people have bashed Mosaic for their perpetual backorder system but, hell, as screwed up as they are at times, at least they have a backorder system. And if you use a credit card, they don't even charge you until they get it in and it ships. Imagine that. How would everyone feel if over the years Mosaic Records used the system Dusty Groove is using? Say there's a box set running near the end of its run and you place an order but it's temporarily out of stock. Mosaic cancels your order and expects you to wait until it's back in stock, then re-order it. I bet you'd be pretty upset if you missed that notification and missed out on that box... the box that you already ordered.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Kevin Bresnahan

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

 The next morning, I got a notice that it was actually out of stock and that I'll be notified when it comes back in stock. Little did I know what that actually meant.

It actually means exactly what it said - that you're item was out of stock and that you will be notified when it comes back into stock. And then, if you are still interested and have not found it someplace else (and I don't know about you, but for stuff like this, that I know will be a limited release, I keep looking until I find one, I don't wait for somebody to get back to me. I'm kind of adult like that, really, taking responsibility for getting the outcome I desire and not being dependent upon the vaguires of international commerce and limited availabilities, it's my job to get it, and to keep looking until I do).

It sounds like they told you how it was gonna go, and that's how it's going, and that you "assumed" something other than the reality. I mean, hope IS a motivator, but no, it is not a strategy.

Besides, Dusty no doubt sells enough used material and definitely has a business model of keeping limited inventory, so it probably makes sense to them to treat all orders the same - that Kenyatta/Stitt LP took over a year to come back around, and they did what they said they were going to do. If they get more of this thing (whatever it is, UK Hardbop or something like that?) in this afternoon, they will again do exactly what they said they were going to do.

There practice is long-standing and has remained consistent. Proceed accordingly and don't expect them to change. When you get the initial invoice and it shows anything out of stock, not available, etc. start looking elsewhere or else just wait. And don't order a Filet o'Fish and then bitch that it's ain'g got no beef.

 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

1 minute ago, JSngry said:

It actually means exactly what it said - that you're item was out of stock and that you will be notified when it comes back into stock. And then, if you are still interested and have not found it someplace else (and I don't know about you, but for stuff like this, that I know will be a limited release, I keep looking until I find one, I don't wait for somebody to get back to me. I'm kind of adult like that, really, taking responsibility for getting the outcome I desire and not being dependent upon the vaguires of international commerce and limited availabilities, it's my job to get it, and to keep looking until I do).

It sounds like they told you how it was gonna go, and that's how it's going, and that you "assumed" something other than the reality. I mean, hope IS a motivator, but no, it is not a strategy.

Besides, Dusty no doubt sells enough used material and definitely has a business model of keeping limited inventory, so it probably makes sense to them to treat all orders the same - that Kenyatta/Stitt LP took over a year to come back around, and they did what they said they were going to do. If they get more of this thing (whatever it is, UK Hardbop or something like that?) in this afternoon, they will again do exactly what they said they were going to do.

There practice is long-standing and has remained consistent. Proceed accordingly and don't expect them to change. When you get the initial invoice and it shows anything out of stock, not available, etc. start looking elsewhere or else just wait. And don't order a Filet o'Fish and then bitch that it's ain'g got no beef.

 

When you act like this, I really wonder why Jim has you as a moderator. You don't moderate at all. You preach.

That's it - you read it from Jim. He's right and everyone else is wrong.

[JSngry]

I am preaching to you, Kevin, yes YOU! - not as a moderator, but as a fellow citizen who works to get the shit I want instead of just clickin' and hopin' (as per the old Dusty Springfield song we all know and love) - that you need a better grasp of the way shit works at Dusty Groove and to act like a grown-ass adult about getting the shit you want.

The first thing is fact, the second a suggestion, but in both cases, yes, I am right. Not because I say so, but because that is the way shit works. Don't take my word for it, just look at your experience and ask yourself, hmmm, maybe I should have a reality based Plan B instead of a hope-basedon-unfounded-expectations Plan Cypher.

I have called Dusty Groove in the middle of the afternoon and had them pull an item from the shelf while I placed the order online - and did not get off the line until we were all on the same page about order placed/order pulled because that's how bad I wanted that item. They thought it was weird, but I know how they do - they pull shit from the shelves to pull orders and if they process your order at 5:15 in the afternoon and some random pedestrian buys it in the store at 5:14, hey, fuck you, that item is now out of stock. They ain't no warehouse outlet mega-barn, they're a basic brick-and-mortar, and what they have on the shelf is what is on the site, and vice-versa. Period. That's how they do, so that's what you gotta do if you want it bad enough. And if you don't want it bad enough to do it like that, don't go there. Buy your shit someplace else. Either way, man up and stop whining.

And for real dawg, you can't get email on your phone?

 

[Dan Gould]

No Kevin I think Jim is saying:

This is the way Dusty rides. Has always been so.  Not gonna change.

You would like it to be different and meet your standards that you think are reasonable but the fact is that DG doesn't do back orders. Period.  And they are pretty up front about it, aren't they?  The comparison to Mosaic isn't fair because one set up a backorder system and one did not.

 

[JSngry]

And as far as Mosaic, their backordering is perfectly fine with me, because that's how they ride. What's pissed me of is the recent trend towards ninny-level "oh gosh are we going to do it or not, let's ask all our littel friends what we should do because oh gosh, i don't know, this is all too hard, oh gosh. OK NEVER MI?ND WE GET MERCH, but now oh bopther what to do NOW?

I mean, that's not very business like nore Mosaic like, really. Just make a decision and stick with it. Go out of business, go to a pre-order model, just pick something and stick with it. I think most people will tell you that consistency and predictability of outcome is why keeps a customer. It's when shit starts getting hinky that people waiver and bail.

 

[JSngry]

Let's pretend...they got 5 copies in and got 15 people who wanted it, leaving 10 people who didn't. Are ya' with me so far?

Now, let's assume that at some point they were able to get 3 more at some point, somehow. This is a limited edition, right? AND an import. AND currently going for $1,000,000.00 (+ shipping) on the resale market! https://www.discogs.com/sell/item/845164128

Ok, they know that they are going to sell those 3 somehow, So what are they going to do, go back and check timestamps on all orders and send out 3 emails to the three oldest orders? And then wait for how long? And sit on that eminently saleable merchandise for how long to send out to unfilled order #4 becuase #2 emailed backl a week later and said, oh, sorry for the delay, I was on vacation, and besides I found one laready/ Etcetcetcetc.

That kind of strategy is #1 inefficient for anybody, and #2 not really vaible for a shop like DG. The only inventory that is not on the web site (that I know of) is the really trashed LPs and stuff in the "bargain basement" (and when my daughter was in there, we Skyped as she thumbed though some of that...and I had her pull a few things. You gotta hustle!).

Point being, turnover and cash flow. Sell what you have and try to only8 have what you can sell. They're still in business, hey.

[jlhoots]

Just keep it on your "watch list" at DG. Works for me. 

[JSngry]

8 minutes ago, jlhoots said:

Just keep it on your "watch list" at DG. Works for me. 

Either Amazon is totally clueless (my guess) or else there's a repressing coming on December 14: https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Lansdowne-Recordings-QUINTET-RENDELL/dp/B07J2T5DDT/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1544567075&sr=1-1&keywords=don+rendell

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Supposedly I got one winging its way to me now. Maybe Dusty reads these posts?

If anyone else wanted a copy, try ordering one from Dusty and then call the store so they pull it off their shelf. That's what I just did.

Sorry - it's back to being out of stock already.

[JSngry]

See, doesn't it feel good to be proactive about it instead of just whining?

[clifford_thornton]

I would assume someone didn't pay for one and it went back out into the store.

[JSngry]

Carpe diem!

[Kevin Bresnahan]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

See, doesn't it feel good to be proactive about it instead of just whining?

Who are you kidding? I just got lucky. That's all. Nothing proactive about it... oh, and just in case I'm not clear, "whining" is not what I was doing and you know it. You just won't admit it. You like Dusty so they can do no wrong. I pointed out that their ordering system is messed up but you disagree. We'll just agree to disagree here.