Eric Alexander on Improv

[Dan Gould]

Offered up to find out what other musicians say to this 

 

[JSngry]

I think he's explaining himself.

[Dan Gould]

10 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I think he's explaining himself.

But then wouldn't it be succincter to say "rip off George Coleman"?

 

[JSngry]

Far be it from me to put words into his mouth. 

[sgcim]

On 3/17/2024 at 1:28 PM, Dan Gould said:

Offered up to find out what other musicians say to this 

 

I'm glad someone's saying it. Thanks for posting it!

[Rabshakeh]

If you aren't playing changes then you are just playing random sounds and the audience hates it.

[Dan Gould]

5 hours ago, sgcim said:

I'm glad someone's saying it. Thanks for posting it!

What I was hoping for discussion on was his aversion to "telling a story" in a solo.

Pres liked that.

EA ain't Pres.

What's the significance to musicians and others?

And BTW I am pretty sure I have heard a ton of EA solos where he "gets angry" by the end.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Dan - Maybe it's just me, but it seems like you're fishing for some anti-Eric Alexander sentiments here. I don't feel like playing that game.

This video is about a new improv course Alexander is selling to beginners based on his years of teaching the subject. Of course his basic premise is going to be "Play changes", as it is pretty good advice for beginners.

[Dan Gould]

20 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

Dan - Maybe it's just me, but it seems like you're fishing for some anti-Eric Alexander sentiments here. I don't feel like playing that game.

This video is about a new improv course Alexander is selling to beginners based on his years of teaching the subject. Of course his basic premise is going to be "Play changes", as it is pretty good advice for beginners.

Kevin: It's entirely you. I posted because I have been getting EA videos on FB and YT feeds, and been struck by much of what he says.

What struck me most is the dissing of "telling a story" and the implicit contrast with Pres. I think that is a legit question for discussion, however it goes.  As for the purpose of what he is selling its very clear that this approach, even if geared for "beginners" (which I do not think is his only market anyway) is his approach. So, play changes, don't tell a story.

 

(BTW I finally put together that you mentioned that you are more or less retired, and you've put your screen name back. So I guess using your name is OK again.)

Edited March 19, 2024 by Dan Gould

[JSngry]

If you have a story to tell, tell it with whatever tools get it told.

If you don't have a story to tell...nothing to stop you from having a career anyway. 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

5 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

Kevin: It's entirely you. I posted because I have been getting EA videos on FB and YT feeds, and been struck by much of what he says.

What struck me most is the dissing of "telling a story" and the implicit contrast with Pres. I think that is a legit question for discussion, however it goes.  As for the purpose of what he is selling its very clear that this approach, even if geared for "beginners" (which I do not think is his only market anyway) is his approach. So, play changes, don't tell a story.

If you're not looking trying for a negative spin, then why the "rip off George Coleman" comment? I guess in your eyes that's a compliment?

Edited March 19, 2024 by Kevin Bresnahan

[Dan Gould]

4 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

If you're not looking trying for a negative spin, then why the "rip off George Coleman" comment? I guess in your eyes that's a compliment?

Answer to Sangrey's comment "I think he's explaining himself". Also punctuated by a winkie.

 

 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

5 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

(BTW I finally put together that you mentioned that you are more or less retired, and you've put your screen name back. So I guess using your name is OK again.)

I left a job where I had to get a clearance and I was told to minimize my social footprint for that. Now that I am no longer in that job, I can go back to using my name.

[JSngry]

Nothing wrong with trade school. 

[sgcim]

9 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

What I was hoping for discussion on was his aversion to "telling a story" in a solo.

Pres liked that.

EA ain't Pres.

What's the significance to musicians and others?

And BTW I am pretty sure I have heard a ton of EA solos where he "gets angry" by the end.

I remember the story about Pres being asked what he thought of some musician playing some fast, technical solo, and then asking the player,

""Yes Lady, but can you sing me a song?" I always liked that one.

[JSngry]

9 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

And BTW I am pretty sure I have heard a ton of EA solos where he "gets angry" by the end.

Me too!

[Ken Dryden]

My favorite was a musician asking Lester Young the last time they had played together, with Lester replying, "Tonight."

[sonnymax]

On 3/19/2024 at 12:50 AM, Rabshakeh said:

If you aren't playing changes then you are just playing random sounds and the audience hates it.

[Michael Weiss]

I like to tell my students that when they solo they're a guest of the song and to treat their host with respect. As a soloist you're there to enhance the song, not to use it exclusively for harmonic gratification. A tune's identity is more than a set of chord changes.

Charles McPherson, who in addition to being one of the great instrumentalists is also IMO one of the best verbalizers about jazz. From one interview:

"See, here we go with, “There’s a lot of ways to be a typewriter,” because a lot of people chase chord changes. But harmony and chord changes are just there as collateral. They tell you what group of notes might be valid for the moment, but they don’t tell you what’s the best note for the moment. Your eyes can tell you right notes if you know harmony, but your ears — if you got some — will tell you the best notes out of the many right notes. It’s up to the melodic ear to eke out the greatest four or five notes for the moment. That’s when the phrasing and rhythm comes in....

... But Bird and Dizzy played so well and so correctly that it was very easy for the younger players to start treating chord changes as the greatest thing of all. There’s a danger there because chords are not the “reason why.” Chords shouldn’t be the jumpstart of your creation. Your jumpstart of creation is your melodic ear and rhythm.

The chords are there, they’re like parts of speech. Nouns, verbs, prepositional phrases, adverb phrases: they’re meaningless on their own, but they’re there to create sentences, paragraphs and stories. But parts of speech are not the reason for your creation. When you get ready to speak your thoughts and express your feelings, you’re not saying, well now let me use a noun or a verb or an adverb. It’s the same when you play an A minor seven. An A minor seven has no dignity unto itself. It just is what it is. The A minor seven is just acting as part of speech, helping you express your emotion. A lot of the players after bebop on became top heavy with the harmony. Now we have a bunch of players who will basically chase chord changes, that’s all it is. If they’re grammatically correct, they think they’re great, you know? And that’s part of it, of course. At least you’re in the ballpark if you outline the changes. But that ain’t the main event!"

Edited 1 hour ago by Michael Weiss