33 1/3 LP's, what was the max length per side?

[Hardbopjazz]

During the days of LP's 50's and 60's, what was the maximum amount of music you could squeeze on a side? Looking at my CD's from Blue Note, Prestige and other labels, the longest one I saw so far was about 46 minutes, minus the alt takes and stuff.

[Rooster_Ties]

Aren't there some Mosaic LP's from the Miles 65-68 box with the complete long version of "Circle in the Round" on one side on on LP?? From my CD's, that clocks in at 33:32.

Wasn't there something I read in the Mosaic liner-notes about the sound quality being a tiny bit substandard on the LP version, because of the track length???

[jazzbo]

That cd version of Circle in the Round includes material that was not on the lp version. I think the lp version was about 26 minutes long.

I think the longest I've seen would have been about 28 or 29 minutes per side; some of the live Miles lps were pretty darned long-sided. . . that's not really or just barely "fifties or sixties" but I don't think there was a technological change that allowed the longer sides, just an ideological one.

Edited April 16, 2004 by jazzbo

[Hardbopjazz]

Aren't there some Mosaic LP's from the Miles 65-68 box with the complete long version of "Circle in the Round" on one side on on LP??  From my CD's, that clocks in at 33:32.

Wasn't there something I read in the Mosaic liner-notes about the sound quality being a tiny bit substandard on the LP version, because of the track length???

Yeah, that's with today’s technology. As the years went on, the amount of time of a side seemed to increase.

Edited April 16, 2004 by Hardbopjazz

[Dr. Rat]

Isn't Elvis Costello's Get Happy about 70 minutes?

--eric

[RDK]

Yeah, but as the length increased, so too (often) did the sound quality suffer. In order to squeeze the extra-long groove in, one had to severely limit the bass frequencies since they take up more space on the record. Later on, computerized record cutting helped the sound quality problem somewhat, but in cases of very long LP sides you can really hear the benefits of CDs.

[Christiern]

A thirty minutes side invited distortion, but LPs were not necessarily short on running time because anybody worried about the sound; the AFofM contract defined a "session" as either 15 minutes of usable recording or three hours of studio time. Exceed either and you go into another session, even if you only record five more minutes. Thus most recordings were done in two sessions (i.e. 30 minutes of music). Of course there was always a little give and take, but an inflexible union rep might show up.

When I recorded in New York or at Rudy's studio in Englewood Cliffs, I never saw a union rep, but one showed up when I did a series of New Orleans sessions for Riverside. He kept looking over my shoulder, at my recording sheet, but I have to admit that I fooled him by keeping notes in Danish, writing out the real recording time while noting a lesser one in digits. Not ethical, but fudging was common practice and without it fewer albums would have been produced.

Musicians were generally aware of this but they also knew that we were a low-budget label, so they made it a priority to get a good album out there.

Some record companies played it by the book and issued LPs with 15 minutes per side.

[Rooster_Ties]

Some record companies played it by the book and issued LPs with 15 minutes per side.

30 minute albums bite, IMHO. (With a few exceptions, here and there, of course.)

[Alexander]

Some record companies played it by the book and issued LPs with 15 minutes per side.

30 minute albums bite, IMHO. (With a few exceptions, here and there, of course.)

I actually think that the 40 minute album is the perfect length. Too many recent jazz CDs go on WAY too long!

[Hardbopjazz]

So labels like Prestige and Blue Note didn't care so much for the sound quality, it was a union thing?

[PHILLYQ]

I recall Miles' 'Get Up With It', which came out on vinyl in the early '70s, having sides that clocked in at slighty more than 30 minutes per side. The cuts in particular are 'Caypso Frelimo' & 'He Loved Him Madly'.

[jazzbo]

You're right, I'd forgotten how long those were. . . . And no lack of bass if you ask me!

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I used to have an LP of Def Leppard's "Hysteria" that clocked in at around 62 minutes and I remember when it was issued that they had a tough time fitting it all onto one LP. If my memory serves, the grooves went so far into the vinyl that one of my record players picked up the needle before the record was done.

Later,

Kevin

[Claude]

Here's a discussion on the same subject on another forum:

LPs: Longest Recording Time

[PHILLYQ]

Claude,

Everytime I see that picture I imagine the black hat and the broom for her!

[Tom in RI]

Seems to me that the Todd Rundgren lp cited in Claude's link was the record holder at the time of its release. The Savoy twofer of Milt Jackson and Lucky Thompson, Second Nature, had sides between 26-28 minutes, and stellar music too boot. According to Allmusic this twofer included 4 sperate 1956 lp's. Still one of my favorite records.

Edited April 16, 2004 by Tom in RI

[Jazzmoose]

Isn't Elvis Costello's Get Happy about 70 minutes?

--eric

Yeah, and it sounded fine. The liner notes made a big deal about the improved technology or something as I remember. I'd look it up, but alas, lost all the jackets off of my old rock LPs in an apartment flood years ago...

[brownie]

My LP copy of Cecil Taylor's '3 Phasis' from New World records clocks in at 57:12.

Side A runs 28:22, side B runs 28:50.

[Christiern]

Years ago, to improve the sound on longer-playing LPs, one of the companies introduced "variable groove," where the lathe varied the distance between grooves according to the sound (of course there is only one groove per side, but you know what I mean). I recall that it helped, but so many new "techniques" were introduced by the various record companies back then, so one was always a bit skeptical. Some of the fancy names were just that, and any improvement one heard was strictly in one's mind. B)