Hardbopjazz Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 I have a friend that started listening and buying jazz. I lent him John Coltrane's "Giant Steps". At first he couldn't get into it. I told him, listen to it a few more times. He gave it back to me this morning. He said it grew on him and that would be the next CD he is going to buy. Now would "A Love Supreme" be too much for a newbie to understand? How far along does it take to fully understand a piece of work like Trane's "A Love Supreme." He saw me listening to it this morning. He wanted to check it out. I said it might turn you off to Coltrane. This piece is his signature work, and very model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Too early for ALS, IMO. How's about Blue Train? (I'm sure you meant "modal") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Or someone other than Coltrane? I recently just discovered Mogie's "Take Twelve", and WHOAAA DOGGIES!!! That's a burner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmirBagachelles Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Could it not depend on what they were into music-wise before being open to the idea of jazz? Hard-core? The Cowsills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted April 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Could it not depend on what they were into music-wise before being open to the idea of jazz? Hard-core? The Cowsills? Not sure what he listens to outside of jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Toss'm some Mobley and Dexter Gordon. Even non-jazzers can get into Go! How about Mingus Ah Um? Then there's always Ellington... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmirBagachelles Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Yeah go w/ Mingus. He is the all-time swinging cool pounding awesome MAN. If you can't get pulled into Mingus' beat the first few times around, then maybe you are not ready for jazz, or a pulse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Weil Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 The obvious one would be Kind of Blue (nul points for originality, but still). The other thing that comes to mind is some kind of Bluenote hardbop record, Art Blakey, Horace Silver, you know the drill... I'd have thought Giant Steps is "harder" than the above. Simon Weil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 This is where broad comps come in very handy. You could stick to a label comp - Blue Note, Verve, Prestige, etc - or even something like the Ken Burns Jazz box. I mean, there's 80 years of musical history and while someone might dig mid-period Coltrane they might also dig early ("trad") jazz, bebop, big band, organ grooves, or one of the many types of fusion. With a sampler, you can figure out what *style* you like and then get more specific from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted April 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Kind of Blue was the first CD I lent him. I thought of playing a joke by giving him Unit Structures. But I might set him back. I lent him Lou Donaldson's Lou Takes Off. Nice record to keep the interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave James Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 I've given this a fair amount of thought over the years and it seems to me that the best possible intro to jazz involves music that's fairly heavy on melody. Most people seem to be able to hang their hat on that hook and it tends to lessen the typical "that's just noise" reaction that harder core jazz tends to elicit. For that reason, if it were me, I'd steer clear of Coltrane or Mingus at the outset and think more along the lines of Webster, Hawkins, Prez or Duke. After someone has absorbed this kind of music, I think it's natural to move into more improvisational arenas. I think the key thing is to not overwhelm someone with music that they probably won't understand. As we all know, one must crawl before they walk and walk before they run. Up over and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 (edited) ...and if you do decide to make a comp, please include Blue Roll by RRKirk (RipRigPanic/Edith [latter actually]) just for fegging with your victim. This one is INSANE. It still drives me up the wall after all these years. Jump up from whatever your sitting, standing, lying, or kneeing on and DANCE the room till it shakes baby! Wooo! I included it on a comp for someone who hadn't had much exposure to jazz and she loved it A LOT. The other tracks were more predictable, rather cool generally, the smoother stuff. Started with Vince Guaraldi - Oh Good Grief, ended with Trane doing Welcome though... Edited April 19, 2004 by couw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Skid Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 If your friend has any interest in guitar, how about Jimmy Smith's The Sermon? I agree with Dave -- the melody is important. This one has some great melodies, and some great grooves as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 I second BLUE TRAIN, it's very melodic, which as mentioned above is more acceptable to the jazz newcomer. Great exposure to Lee Morgan and Curtis Fuller as well as Coltrane. This one did it for me! Now I'm addicted to that classic hardbop Blue Note sound. Unless he has an interest in the organ I would steer clear of the B3, even Jimmy Smith (sorry B3er.) Although I'm a certified greazehead, B3 nut, it took a while to warm up to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maren Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Could it not depend on what they were into music-wise before being open to the idea of jazz? Hard-core? The Cowsills? Very good point! I have friends for whom "melody" would be completely the wrong approach (guess their motto might be "I hate jazz -- it's so relaxing!"). Much better, with a hard-core or Sonic Youth fan, to plunge ahead with "Rip Rig & Panic" or "A Love Supreme"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Toss'm some Mobley and Dexter Gordon. Even non-jazzers can get into Go! How about Mingus Ah Um? Then there's always Ellington... You got that right. I throw on some Hank or Lee Morgan, and it's tough for most people not to feel the groove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Wow...I'd give a new listener A Love Supreme before I gave them Giant Steps. I never thought the former was all that difficult to follow. That said, i agree totally with the camp that says it depends on what they listen to already. My Favorite Things and Kind of Blue were perfect for me. I know some who would latch on quicker with the Brotzmann I'm listening to right now. Just depends... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 RRKirk - Blue Roll I tell you, that's da shit man. If you don't like it, you're not born for ... well RRK playing that particular song really... hum, still I think it is an awesome introduction to what heights the music can reach. It introduces some quaint sounds, has some of the bluesiest playing I have EVER heard, and it is a damn nice tune to top. Play Blue Roll 20 times in a row and seperate the interested from the believers. the latter will have tears of joy in their eyes, the former of boredom. I never told you it was going to be easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trane123 Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Gave a friend of mine a copy of Trane's Ballads CD. She thought it was great. "Wonderful falling asleep music" was I believe the exact quote... Thats OK...whatever works. It's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete C Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 It's impossible to generalize about when anybody is "ready" for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Play them something you really like and explain why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 I'd suggest Horace Silver' "Song For My Father," or any other of Horace's classic BN stuff. They will catch on real quick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrome Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 It might be worthwhile to go "backward," if you will ... start out with stuff that is more modern, with more of a "pop" sensibility ... Charlie Hunter, MMW, Bad Plus, Stefon Harris, Joshua Redman's "Elastic," Uberjammish John Scofield, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 "take five" man -- thats the way to start! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 (edited) It might be worthwhile to go "backward," if you will ... start out with stuff that is more modern, with more of a "pop" sensibility ... Charlie Hunter, MMW, Bad Plus, Stefon Harris, Joshua Redman's "Elastic," Uberjammish John Scofield, etc. That might be a good idea but it's really tough to say. Your approach would probably vary depending on the individual that your dealing with. Probably something with a good groove and not too out there unless the person in question is very receptive. Edited April 21, 2004 by chris olivarez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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