mikeweil

I'm afraid this thread is once again goin' severely (there ain't no grinnin' off-topic-smiley, unfortunately, this one needs a day off badly)

Dan, that's a very rare bird you caught there! Could you post your impressions, please, especially if and how much of Thad Jones is on this album? Thanks!

Must be a real influential player , this Coleman ... now what was his first name?

Had a listen to Bittersuite in the Ozone (which also was on Moses own label Mozown) and recommend it. Open, free form playing combined with nice compositional touches, experimental but not extreme. Billy Hart plays drums here, Moses plays vibes and percussion, a little piano, and vocalizes. Jeanne Lee is on board, Randy Brecker, John D'Earth, the underrated Daniel Carter, Howard Johnson, Jack Gregg and Eddie Gomez, Mike Lawrence, Dave Liebman, and most of all, pianist Stanley Free, who dominates side B with a long piece dedicated to him: his open, lyrical free playing is so enchanting it is reason alone for me to keep this album. Why isn't there more of this extraordinary pianist? And what happened to Moses? I had his two Open Sky trio LPs with Frank Tusa and Dave Liebman, but sold them, was a type of music to me that's more interesting to play than to listen to. The most recent outing I have is a percussion duo LP with Billy Martin (of Medeski, Martin & Wood) dating back to 1987, released on a German label.

Always at your service, Jim, it's a nice disc. Here's a quote from the Frank Strozier Discography: Date: November 2, 1977 Location: Blank Studios, NY ldr - George Coleman; t - Danny Moore; as - Frank Strozier; ts - George Coleman, Junior Cook; bar - Mario Rivera; p - Harold Mabern; b - Lisle Atkinson; d - Idris Muhammad; per - Azzedin Weston a. On Green Dolphin Street - 11:02 (Bronislau Kaper, Ned Washington) b. Frank's Tune - 08:00 (Frank Strozier) c. Big George - 04:55 (Shirley Scott) d. Joggin' - 05:06 (George Coleman) e. Body And Soul - 10:33 (Edward Heyman, Robert Sour, Frank Eyton, Johnny Green) Affinity (Eng.) CD: CDAFF 764 - More From the Horn f. Revival - 05:34 (George Coleman) All titles on: - Thesis CD: THJ 82032 - Affinity (Eng.) CD: CD Charly 83 - Big George - Affinity (Eng.) CD: CDAFF 766 - Stablemates: Junior Cook Quartet/George Coleman Octet - Affinity (Eng.) LP 12": AFF 52 - Big George - Affinity (Eng.) LP 12": AFF 178 - Big George Part of this session was recorded on November 3, 1977. Azeddin Weston appears on Joggin' only. This session was originally recorded for but never issued by the Vee Jay label.

If so, why are we still waiting for a CD reissue of this? It's on the top of my wish list!

... turns out I still have that "Bittersuite" LP - I'll give it a listen sometime tomorrow and post my impressions.

It may be part of that game called learning to play the saxophone - getting caught up in phrases and techniques your teacher uses. Regarding the Coleman/Alexander comparison, it just struck me that one of my favourites, Jane Ira Bloom, is another Coleman disciple, and she sounds completely like herself, not a bit like Coleman! So it can't, of course, be Coleman's "fault", but maybe Alexander's "folly"?

Do you remember if they were different from the later covers, and if there were any Warhol covers among them? It's very hard to find them pictured anywhere; the first edition of Michel Ruppli's Prestige discography listed them in the session entries, but not in a separate series list, at least I found none of it in the book.

Now I understand why Pony Poindexter was so disappointed when his Pony Express LP came out on Epic, with considerable delay and not on Columbia as promised - in his view they were preferring Paul Winter, who was also playing soprano, but was white, playing bossa nova and had just performed at the White House!

I'd rather prefer the way we handle our arguments here - I never was any good at carrying weapons of any kind - maybe because it's not that rough over here: the only occasion when I witnessed a brawl was in an American club! Jim, your post affirms what I thought about all jazz (and other) musicians (myself included): They spend their lives trying to develop and get across some ideas they had at the very start of their careers. You refine, polish, try different angles, but the basic ideas remain the same. That fits your thought that the initial core of an individual sound is there from the beginning. Garrett, Coleman, Osby and Thomas are good examples; I would add Joshua Redman to the list, Jane Ira Bloom, James Carter, perhaps Tad Shull - not all of these are under 40. It's a pleasure to watch these players grow. The list of names on the threshold of total individuality is very long - and very subjective, of course: Eric Alexander, Chris Potter, Javon Jackson, Mark Turner, Mark Shim, Vincent Herring, maybe some of these have already crossed the line for some ears on the board. As long as there are some to watch ...

Links: The Soul Manifesto, Rodney Jones' official website; Wanted to link to the CD on the Highnote webpage, but it's not listed. I'll keep an eye on it.

I find this discussion about Eric Alexander very interesting, believe it or not. I had similar feelings - still have - when I listen to him, couldn't express it that way. I'm not too harsh with "younger" players, experience tells it takes time to develop your personal voice, and we are severe critics because we all know the strong individuals that were there before us, and this makes it even harder. We can't but compare. I think it is both important to simply enjoy what you like or stay critical if you think it's derivative - and that happens only when it doesn't really touch you, reach you. I think we're basically on terms with this. Maybe we should start a thread discussing players under 40 years of age that we think are (still) derivative, and those who stepped beyond? Now that would be interesting. Bev, Jim, what's your opinion?

No, I'm not Miles Davis telling John Coltrane to simply take the horn out of his mouth when he does not know how to stop. No need for apologies - we all get carried away sometimes, I'm not not taking all of this too seriously, except for the basic message that sometimes it takes one or two chorusses, sometimes it takes 56 to get it across, as we all know. Not the slightest bit of boredom or hositlity intended! Keep swingin', all of us! B)

Never had any serious doubts about this!

And this is the cover designed by some T. Tanaka & F. Fujiyama for the first release of this Grant Green session in Japan, highly derivative of Warhol's covers:

I'm afraid my eloquence is not sufficient to give an appropriate and exhausting outline of the pros and cons of elaborate vs. simple speech bla bla bla - I guess you'll have to figure it out yourself ... Seriously, I dig these posts, but I sincerely think some of it could have said in a much simpler fashion without losing any of the depth of the subject. I basically agree with both of you, Jim and Bev.

Here are the ones I found: 16-1: Milt Jackson Quartet & Modern Jazz Quartet - Concorde 16-2: ??? 16-3: Miles Davis All Stars - Bags' Groove & Miles Davis & The Modern Jazz Giants 16-4: J.J. Johnson/Kai Winding/Bennie Green - Trombones & Trombone by Three 16-5: George Wallington Quintet/The New York Scene & ??? 16-6: Curtis Fuller and Hampton Hawes with French Horns & Prestige All Stars - Dakar (both were Teddy Charles produced sessions) In a way, a very early ancestor of the two LPs on one CD format, although some of these were first issues of these sessions, 16-6 was a first issue for sure. The first four were reissues of material previously availbale in various formats. Anybody fill in the gaps?

couw's posting of a rare Prestige 16 2/3 rpm record cover designed by Andy Warhol was the inspiration for this thread: let's compile a gallery of all covers Andy Warhol designed for Blue Note, Prestige, any other labels ... I'm sure it will be nice to look at. I'll start with the cover couw found - thanks for posting this rare bird, I like it, but these horns somehow look (ancient) Greek to me, not like trombones, he must have been suffering a heavy Picasso influence at the time!

It certainly would be a nice pair for the first 2004 Connoisseur batch: McCoy Tyner - Cosmos Andrew Hill - One For One But there is more unreleased Andrew Hill material from around the time of theses sessions, so maybe a different pairing of sessions would be appropriate. What about the unreleased last Shorter Blue Note session with Tyner etc. mentioned on the BNBB or here before? I'd buy any of these without hesitation.

Seems there are only few singers doing it with an organ group, I have an Etta Jones with Larry Young, but who else? This seems to be one worth checking out:

Jim, maybe you have this disc, which incidentally has Rodney Jones in the band as well:

After an intensive listening session with this disc let me say: Do not expect a sequel to Infinite Search! And do not expect a quintet record! Basically it is a trio with Garbarek, Vitous and DeJohnette. Corea and McLaughlin appear on two tracks each, one of these is the only quintet track - with the three brass players added, who otherwise appear on the other McLaughlin track and one of the trios. And there is a duo of Vitous of McLaughlin. I didn't expect the youthful energy of Vitous' debut record, but a little more taking chances than is heard here. Garbarek is the winner here to my ears because he goes the farthest oustide. The trios are the most convincing. The brass leaves a feeling of having either more of them - they seem to have been intregrated in the live recording process - or do away with them - they do not play written parts it seems, but have some room for improvisation as well, and if so, there is not enogh of them. Two things I do not like at all: - DeJohnette's ride cymbal sound - it keeps bugging me because it has not very much color, but that's his taste in cymbals. This is the first time I could really hear the Vernel Fournier influence in his playing. - Corea: I think he is superfluous on this disc. Some phrases are played as if he wants to demonstrate he can far as far out of time as possible, almost like a classical pianist trying to play a romantic rubato passage to prove he is free from earthly connections. He sounds as if he is still looking for his real place in this music. McLaughlin too, but he takes off from his stylistics of the Infinite Search sessions and interacts more with Garbarek. Corea somewhat sounds to me as if he is searching for a place in the music where to strike a chord. There should have been more work together as a quintet to make that really convincing - music of this order does not happen with only a day or two in the studio. I'll keep this disc, but it shows you shouldn't change your mind in the middle of recording - this sounds more like a first step on a promising path, or rather two paths: either the trio of Vitous, Garbarek and DeJohnette, or an interactive group with some orchestral players involved - McLaughlin would fit here better than Corea, I think. I'm very curious about other opinions on this record!

Oh, there's an easy way to prevent this: KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!

Got it today but want to give it some spins before I comment on it. Does the interview or any other source say anything about these three brass players on the CD? Were they overdubbed, "added as an afterthought", as Al Kooper put it with his Super Session horn overdubs?