Larry Kart Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Classic Joe Thomas would be the Keynote Cozy Cole All-Stars 2/44 date with Hawkins, Earl Hines, Trummy Young ("Father Co-Operates," "Thru for the Night" etc.), a 7/44 Pete Brown Keynote date ("It's the Talk of the Town" etc.), a 10/44 Keynote with Red Norvo ("Russian Lullaby" etc.), and his own 8/46 Keynote date ("Black Butterfly" etc.) I have these on LP in the old massive Keynote box and don't know where they can be found now, but I would think Classic Jazz collections under the leader's names would be a place to look. Also, there's some choice Joe Thomas on the Mosaic H.R.S. box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Joe Thomas is also featured on the Coleman Hawkins All Stars date from 1960 (with Vic Dickenson, Tommy Flanagan, etc.) that was recorded for Swingville. This has been reissued on OJC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Yes, but I wouldn't judge Thomas by that recording. As Dan Morgenstern said in the Keynote set, "Thomas developed a drinking problem, and while he still made some good records during the next 15 years [i.e. from 1944 to 1959], there were too few and far between.... [H]is great recordings [were] of the '40s...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 The French recording of Fru and Bird is actually Fruscella with Dave Schildkraut - I am certain of this, and it has been confirmed by Bill Triglia, who was present - I can also recognize Dave's playing from that CD - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Hi Allen - Thanks to you, I got this correct in the two discographies (Fru & Triglia) on my website. Now, whether anyone pays attention is another story..... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 I love Fruscella's playing - interestingly enough, when I asked a few musicians about Fruscella in the late 1970s, when I was living in NYC, two of them said almost the identical thing, that Fruscella had his style together before Miles did. There's also another intersting anecdote (from Triglia) of Fruscella jamming one afternoon at Sonny Rollins apartment. A lot of musicians knew how important Fruscella was. He was also, incidentally, married for a time to a famous singer (Morgana King? I'm uncertain) - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 A "sidebar" to welcome Allen here. Members should check out his books. That Devilin' Tune is the place to start. Like only a few writers, he makes me think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Yes, Morgana King. For those who read French - http://www.jazzmagazine.com/Vies/portraits...a/fruscella.htm Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Was Morgana ever "famous" beyond the Godfather movies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 thanks, Chuck, for the plug - I thought she was mildly famous (is that like being a little pregnant?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Whether or not you have a taste for her stylized throaty approach, Morgana King was an intermittently very popular singer in the jazz-pop field beginning in the mid-'50s (her "A Taste of Honey," as they say, "charted" in 1964). If she was married to Fruscella, her taste in husbands was as musically impeccable as it was flawed in terms of fate -- at the time of his death in a car crash, she was married to trombonist Willie Dennis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Yes, but I wouldn't judge Thomas by that recording. As Dan Morgenstern said in the Keynote set, "Thomas developed a drinking problem, and while he still made some good records during the next 15 years [i.e. from 1944 to 1959], there were too few and far between.... [H]is great recordings [were] of the '40s...." Agree that the later recordings of Joe Thomas show he lost some of his spark but his contribution to that Coleman Hawkins All Stars was noteworthy as I recall. Will spin this again. This is the right time to celebrate Hawkins (and Joe Thomas)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Yes, Morgana King. For those who read French - http://www.jazzmagazine.com/Vies/portraits...a/fruscella.htm Mike Thanks for this link, Mike! Printed it to read on the way home after work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 Yes, but I wouldn't judge Thomas by that recording. As Dan Morgenstern said in the Keynote set, "Thomas developed a drinking problem, and while he still made some good records during the next 15 years [i.e. from 1944 to 1959], there were too few and far between.... [H]is great recordings [were] of the '40s...." Agree that the later recordings of Joe Thomas show he lost some of his spark but his contribution to that Coleman Hawkins All Stars was noteworthy as I recall. Will spin this again. This is the right time to celebrate Hawkins (and Joe Thomas)! Don't want to add to the controversy (?), but I just listened to this today and to my ears, while Joe Thomas' chops aren't what they once were, his solos on "Cool Blue" and "Some Stretching" are worth listening to. I will say that Hawk is the main reason that I'll listen to this the next time out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 Thomas' name came up as one of the lyrical Swing Era players that Fruscella and Don Joseph might have liked and been affected by. There's no "controversy," I think, because his work on that Hawkins album, tasty though it is, doesn't compare to the recordings he made in his 1944-46 prime for Keynote and H.R.S. Check out his solos on "Russian Lullaby" with the Red Norvo Septet and "She Didn't Say Yes" with his own band (both Keynote) or his exchanges with Johnny Hodges on "Sumpin' Jumpin' Round Here" with Sandy Williams' Big Eight (H.R.S.) for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 To add to the "Joe Thomas" section of this thread, there is some very good later (1961) Joe Thomas on Claude Hopkins' 'Swing Time' CD (Prestige 24215). The second half of the CD contains Hopkins' 'Let's Jam' Prestige/Swingville LP with Joe Thomas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 (edited) i have two additions and two questions for this (hopefully not too outdated) thread: the additions: 1) i think jerry lloyd is another trumpet player one might include in the wider fruscella/joseph/sunkel circle... i really like his playing on zoot sims' "zoot sims goes to jazzville" 2) an interesting read which does not mention fruscella but is related to that scene are bassist nabil totah's recollections of zoot sims found in the nabil's tracks section on his website www.totahbass.com a short mention of Fruscella is in a Bill Heine interview found here: http://www.catskillregionguide.com/article...p?id=760&page=5 and the questions 3) how come pianist bill triglia never recorded as a leader? (of course, the simple answer would be that nobody ever felt like putting money into a Bill Triglia record - nevertheless: is there another answer? from what google tells me he still seems to play...) 4) is there any good book (besides reisner's biography of charlie parker, kerouac's subterraneans and the new york bit from kerouac's lonesome traveller) which stresses on the mid 50's Open Door etc scene in New York? hoping for answers... and hi I'm new to this forum Niko Edited February 11, 2006 by niko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPF Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 i have two additions and two questions for this (hopefully not too outdated) thread: the additions: 1) i think jerry lloyd is another trumpet player one might include in the wider fruscella/joseph/sunkel circle... i really like his playing on zoot sims' "zoot sims goes to jazzville" 2) an interesting read which does not mention fruscella but is related to that scene are bassist nabil totah's recollections of zoot sims found in the nabil's tracks section on his website www.totahbass.com a short mention of Fruscella is in a Bill Heine interview found here: http://www.catskillregionguide.com/article...p?id=760&page=5 and the questions 3) how come pianist bill triglia never recorded as a leader? (of course, the simple answer would be that nobody ever felt like putting money into a Bill Triglia record - nevertheless: is there another answer? from what google tells me he still seems to play...) 4) is there any good book (besides reisner's biography of charlie parker, kerouac's subterraneans and the new york bit from kerouac's lonesome traveller) which stresses on the mid 50's Open Door etc scene in New York? hoping for answers... and hi I'm new to this forum Niko Niko - I just found this thread myself, so it's never too late to resurrect it. Yes, Jerry (Hurwitz) Lloyd definitely belongs with the Fruscella/Joseph/Sunkel/Ferrara group of trumpeters, both sound-wise and in regard to their musical associations. Did you ever notice that almost every one of these guys has played with either Stan Getz or Gerry Mulligan, or both? And because of his sound, even though he wasn't one of their circle, we have to include Chet Baker, too, and he was associated with both Getz and Mulligan. Interesting. Sorry I can't answer either of your questions, but I have one of my own: One of my favorite Fruscella tracks is Tony's Blues, from the Coral LP, East Coast Jazz Scene and now on the Jazz Factory box set. Since that came from a live concert, what happened to the other tracks? I can't believe he came on to play only one number. I know Mike Fitzgerald's discography lists only that track, but there has to be more. Anybody know? And welcome to another Fruscella lover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 (edited) sorry for my really long reaction time... besides not knowing the answer I moved to a new appartment in a new town which still keeps me more busy than it should... One of my favorite Fruscella tracks is Tony's Blues, from the Coral LP, East Coast Jazz Scene and now on the Jazz Factory box set. Since that came from a live concert, what happened to the other tracks? I can't believe he came on to play only one number. I know Mike Fitzgerald's discography lists only that track, but there has to be more. Anybody know? i can only guess... the announcement before the track only introduces Fruscella (neglecting the rest of the band), so maybe he was like a guest with the Hank Jones Trio? Might also be that only one tune was recorded for the radio broadcast?... Yes, Jerry (Hurwitz) Lloyd definitely belongs with the Fruscella/Joseph/Sunkel/Ferrara group of trumpeters, both sound-wise and in regard to their musical associations. Did you ever notice that almost every one of these guys has played with either Stan Getz or Gerry Mulligan, or both? And because of his sound, even though he wasn't one of their circle, we have to include Chet Baker, too, and he was associated with both Getz and Mulligan. Interesting. yeah, it's a neat way to incorporate Baker... the Jazz Factory liner notes contain the (somewhat cryptic) remark that Fruscella refered to Baker as to "Chatty" Baker... maybe my English is too bad, but I never understood what that has to tell me... niko Edited March 8, 2006 by niko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 yeah, it's a neat way to incorporate Baker... the Jazz Factory liner notes contain the (somewhat cryptic) remark that Fruscella refered to Baker as to "Chatty" Baker... maybe my English is too bad, but I never understood what that has to tell me... Somebody else's English may also be not so good - I think Chet was occasionally called "Chetty". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 (edited) coming late to this as well, but I know Bill Triglia - Bill is kind of an elusive guy who has worked a bit to avoid the limelight - about 20 years ago a Japanese lable contacted me because they wanted to record him in a trio setting - I set up a meeting in NYC with someone from the label along with Bill, and Triglia seemed interested - after that meeting, I was told by the Japanese rep that Bill refused to answer or return phone calls - Bill himself told me he was nervous about it, did not feel in shape, but I think this reflected something of a pattern. Bill did tell me one great story about going up to Sonny Rollins's apartment (I think in the early 1960s) and hearing Sonny practicing with Fruscella, just the two of them - wish I could have been there - also, another interesting thing about Fruscella - 2 separate contemporaries of Fruscella said virtually the same thing to me about Fruscella at different times, independently - that he was playing in that style BEFORE Miles, and that he had it together as a style before Miles - (the two musicians were Triglia and the drummer Sir John Godfrey) - Edited March 8, 2006 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 coming late to this as well, but I know Bill Triglia - Bill is kind of an elusive guy who has worked a bit to avoid the limelight - about 20 years ago a Japanese lable contacted me because they wanted to record him in a trio setting - I set up a meeting in NYC with someone from the label along with Bill, and Triglia seemed interested - after that meeting, I was told by the Japanese rep that Bill refused to answer or return phone calls - Bill himself told me he was nervous about it, did not feel in shape, but I think this reflected something of a pattern. thank you a lot - this really answers my question - it just didn't make sense that he never recorded as a leader without a story like this.... what a pity somewhere on the web I found Fruscella's Atlantic album being considered the (artistically and commercially) less successful but beautiful Italo-American version of Kind of Blue... I don't find it 100% convincing, nevertheless: similarly, Fruscella has the late Forties quintet session with Chick Maures where Miles Davis has the Charlie Parker collaboration, and he has the larger ensemble with Phil Urso and Herb Geller where Davis has Birth of the Cool... (no sketches of spain or bitches brew though ) (of course, many people played in quintets and in larger ensembles around 1950.... still, to me this makes some sense) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted November 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 WPCR 25153 - Tony Fruscella This one is finally being reissued in Japan again — 2310¥, 24-bit mini-LP, and in January (2007). Put it on your list! Great album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 WPCR 25153 - Tony Fruscella This one is finally being reissued in Japan again — 2310¥, 24-bit mini-LP, and in January (2007). Put it on your list! Great album. !great album! (and beautiful cover, too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Is it just me, or does Fruscella consistently sound like what you'd expect a junkie to sound like if you didn't know what a junkie could sound like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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