JSngry Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Or put another way - the names and faces of "the experts" (and who determines just who "the experts" are) change, but the bullshit stays the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) ...and bullshit it is. Reminds me of the adjunct professor who taught jazz piano at the college I went to (Knox College) back in the late 80's and early 90's. He thought he was all hip, and was really damn proud of all his chord substitutions (which were, I'll admit, pretty cool). But I remember playing some relatively "inside" Sun Ra for him (something off of "Purple Night" or "Blue Delight" probably) - and him recoiling in horror at how the piano player kept fucking up the form - and didn't seem to have any idea what he was doing hardly at all. Even at the naive age of 20 or so, I remember thinking "WTF??" . Edited January 24, 2006 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 This last Saturday night, after listening to Geoffrey Keezer's Trio at the Kitano, Harold Mabern got up to the mike and said ( to Geoffrey's slight embarassment ): "I've only heard three geniuses in my life; Charlie Parker, Phineas Newborn and Geoffrey Keezer." Then they played four handed piano, on a song of Harold's. It was that kind of night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neveronfriday Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 One of the few mistakes Ray Brown made in his later days was to let Keezer into his trio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Oscar as #1?!? i can totally see that, if youre the run of the mill NPR jazz lover- but in reality, Art Tatum is #1, and #2, and #3..........7,000. Then Lennie Tristano is 7,001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 One of the few mistakes Ray Brown made in his later days was to let Keezer into his trio. You can't argue about taste, not Ray's or mine or yours - Ray had his reasons, and I think Keezer was the greatest he had during the last ten years of his life. I talked to Benny Golson a few months ago and he, too, said Keezer is a genius. They can't be all wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Where did Herbie Nichols rank on this list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 For living jazz pianists, how come nobody's mentioned Horace Silver? They should have included "funkiness" as a criterion. Then Horace, Duke, Les McCann could have made the list and Monk would have been higher. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Anybody got the full list, and can post it here??? Yeess!! Pleeeeaaaazzze! So that we can get an education from the top jazz minds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 so negative, boys - I hope Roger Williams is on the list - me and Sal were listening to him just the other day - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) by the way, just to get some perspective here - Hal Leonard rejected my book on 1950s jazz, even though the editor recommended it, because his boss said it was about "has beens and never was" - (note that it includes Mingus, Gil Melle, Paul Bley, Teddy Charles and many others) - Edited January 24, 2006 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 The reason Benny Green is even on the list (not to mention being #6) is quite simple: The "top jazz minds in the worlds of education, publishing and entertainment" work for his record label. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkaven Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Isn't it a vanity piece? Isn't its real purpose to elevate the reputations of the putative experts as experts? Once again, popularity is slyly substituted for excellence (as often wealth is subsituted for importance). And popular misconceptions pass as "expert" judgments. This is another way that the best artists become relegated to the arts ghetto. Luke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Here's a good review of the book (source) Gene's List by Shaun Brady Books Already on the defensive with BRAC breathing down its neck, Willow Grove may not be the best place to go looking for a fight. But Beaver College piano prof Gene Rizzo drops into the local Barnes & Noble with that most divisive of tomes, the list book. Rizzo's slim volume, The Fifty Greatest Jazz Piano Players of All Time (Hal Leonard, 222 pp., $19.95), is a fairly demure opening salvo, featuring brief bios on each entry and little in the way of explanation for the rankings. Yet the book offers plenty to spur debate, given that Rizzo's tastes fall well on the conservative side of even the Wynton Marsalis Official Jazz Standard. Thelonious Monk is placed way down at number 15 on a list that includes latter-day bop revivalists like Monty Alexander and Benny Green in its top ten. (Green's entry is largely spent marveling at his youth, despite the fact that, at 42, he's older than Coltrane was when he died. Don't look for relative toddler Jason Moran's name between these covers.) Sticking to the Ken Burns narrative, Rizzo's conception of jazz excludes most of the innovations of the past 50 years, ignoring free improv by relegating Cecil Taylor to the "Honorable Mention' appendix and not even granting Marilyn Crispell a spot on the "Top Ten Women' afterthought. Rizzo begrudgingly allows Keith Jarrett to sneak in at number 50, well below a host of semi-obscure post-Shearing easy listening types. As the author notes, "the quantification of talent is tricky business," but for those itching for battle I offer my own pet talking point: Where the hell is Andrew Hill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 OK, a little searching on-line, and I discovered that Monty Alexander is ranked #5 on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 from the table of contents: 1 Oscar Peterson 3 2 Bill Evans 7 3 Bud Powell 11 4 Art Tatum 15 5 Monty Alexander 19 6 Benny Green 23 7 André Previn 27 8 Tommy Flanagan 31 9 George Shearing 35 10 Red Garland 39 11 McCoy Tyner 43 12 Gene Harris 47 13 Kenny Drew 51 14 Hampton Hawes 55 15 Thelonious Monk 59 16 Ahmad Jamal 63 17 Billy Taylor 67 18 Horace Silver 71 19 Hank Jones 75 20 Chick Corea 79 21 Tete Montoliu 83 22 Phineas Newborn, Jr. 87 23 Teddy Wilson 91 24 Nat "King" Cole 95 25 Erroll Garner 99 3 26 Cedar Walton 103 27 Count Basie 107 28 Dave Brubeck 111 29 Cyrus Chestnut 115 30 Lennie Tristano 119 31 Fats Waller 123 32 Dick Hyman 127 33 Wynton Kelly 131 34 Dave McKenna 135 35 John Bunch 139 36 Kenny Barron 143 37 Bobby Timmons 147 38 Duke Ellington 151 39 Earl Hines 155 40 Jimmy Rowles 159 41 Ray Bryant 163 42 Herbie Hancock 167 43 Jelly Roll Morton 171 44 Al Haig 175 45 Derek Smith 179 46 Ralph Sharon 183 47 Mary Lou Williams 187 48 Willie "The Lion" Smith 191 49 Roland Hanna 195 50 Keith Jarrett 199 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 the list can also be found here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Funny to see Dick Hyman, but no James P. Johnson, Luckey Roberts or Joe Turner. Stop! I can´t criticize a list that includes Tete Montoliu... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Dryden Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Allen: That was a pretty funny post about your top jazz minds, but didn't Leslie Gourse die in 2004 or so? I'd love to compare my collection of jazz piano CDs and LPs to some of the bozos that took part in this survey. If anything, there was a bias against a lot of the older players. Since Nat king Cole helped inspire so many pianists, it is hard to imagine him listed so low. Ralph Sharon and John Bunch make the cut? Good musicians, but not top 50 material in my book. Much as I like Bud Powell, there is no way I'd rank him above Art Tatum (who should have been #1 in the first place). A better book would have been to name one's own top fifty and defend it, rather than hide behind a huge survey and state "The people have spoken." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 well, she was still a great jazz mind - I agree with you - and I think it's silly to rank them in order, whch makes it seem like a track event - and some of those names make NO sense, unless there has been money exchanged - I'm surprised we don't see George Winston near the top - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) but, as I said, at least he included Al Haig, a central figure who is too often forgotten these days - unless he was referring to the former Nixonian - Edited January 24, 2006 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) Since we´re all criticizing this list, why don´t we start a thread listing OUR 50 FAVORITE pianists and then make a top-50 list? "OUR" regardless we´re great jazz minds or not. "FAVORITE" as opposed to "Greatest Ever" or "Most Influential". It would take some time to each one of us to go into our archives and pick 50 piano players, but it would be fun (IMHO) EDIT: to correct spelling Edited January 24, 2006 by EKE BBB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Stop! I can´t criticize a list that includes Tete Montoliu... Well I can critize a list that does not include Martial Solal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Stop! I can´t criticize a list that includes Tete Montoliu... Well I can critize a list that does not include Martial Solal... OK, let´s not start a "Best European Jazz Pianist Ever" thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 OK, let´s not start a "Best European Jazz Pianist Ever" thread. a tough decision between Andrzej Kurylewicz, Andrzej Trzaszkowski, Krzystof Komeda, Iancsi Körössy,... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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