Matthew

John Patton Mosaic Select: What's in, What's Out?

165 posts in this topic

That's right. I was referring to Lou playing Varitone on this...Yanow mistakes it for a Baritone Sax. I don't get how he pulls that out of it...did he even listen to the record? The varitone gives it a lower ocatave on some occassions, but it surely doesn't sound like any Bari I've ever heard! :wacko:

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Oh God, no! How could anyone confuse a Varitone attachment with a bari sax!?! That's just nuts. AMG seems like they try to "bite off more than they can chew" if you ask me. There are always tons of errors and those errors are after they fix a bunch of earlier ones.

Later,

Kevin

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How could anyone confuse a Varitone attachment with a bari sax!?!

Dude, you live by the Eb, you die by the Eb. Simple as that.

Hell, if Art Pepper had played tenor, he'd have probably gotten through all his mess and still be alive. AND deep!

Don't let the few fool you - God is a Bb kinda God when it comes to horn players. He just lets the few special ones through the gate so it's not TOO easy.

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BTW, for the record, "Along Came John" has been officially out of print for many months already.

Really? How much is it fetching on ebay?

How are the mighty fallen when this specialist company rushes to release things that have been technically out of print for months rather than decades.

It's just not serious.

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Granted, there are three dates which people could buy as imports...........

I'm not going to pout, though. If there was to be a box, it should be ALL of his work, not just bits and pieces........ Yet I am glad there is something that's coming out.

Edited by Stefan Wood

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The set works for me. Three of the albums will be new to me.

I'll still be searchin' for "Got A Good Thing Goin' ", though

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I'm surprised Along Came John is OOP. Man, that really came and went. Plus, I bought early of course so I got the SHITTY first cover! Matter of fact, I've never seen a corrected cover, did they ever do one???

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They did a corrected cover and there was a way to get one posted on the BNBB. I never bothered, though.

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Me neither. Actually, I have the JRVG which is beautiful. But I'd like to have the corrected domestic. That's one thing I always held my tongue about on the BNBB. But now that it's closed what the hell... Blue Note's quality control was fucking horrible. That patton cover, the Dialogue fiasco, ect. Didn't anybody over there check this shit out? I've never bought such botched up domestic jazz reissues. I've never had a problem with any other company.

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Soul Stream,

Blue Note quality control is the pits, but they are not the only ones. Verve has yet to resolve the fact that the 2-CD reissue of Coltrane has the wrong version of 'Big Nick'.

At least BN corrects the problems, but those corrections were only for BN board members or anyone hipped to the corrections by a BN board member. Both Dialogue and Along Came John could be replaced by sending it in to BN, but you had to know about it - the general public did not.

The correction to The Soothsayer was the worst. They fixed it, but just dumped the corrected version out there with no sticker or anything. You could only know by buying the CD and looking closely at the center. I doddled about sending it in, and now I don't know if it can still be done at the new address.

Does anyone have their new address, by the way?

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I had forgotten how to get the corrected version of "Dialogue." I sent Blue Note an e-mail....nothing. Jerks. I later found out about sending them a card with your address was the fix, ect. However, without confirmation from Blue Note, I doubted anything would happen.

Sound is one thing. But a screwed up cover is obvious to anybody looking at it. How hard is it? One thing I'll boast about the japanese product. They are sticklers for detail. Why we can't be is beyond me.

Andy you're right about on "those in the know (BNBB members)" getting better treatment.

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I missed the ALONG CAME JOHN cover problem. What was the actual fault?

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I missed the ALONG CAME JOHN cover problem. What was the actual fault?

If I remember correctly, the cover had a faux blue-tint that was not on the original cover.

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I've been in Michael Cuscuna's office and seen all the shit he has to check out as reissue producer. I am not excusing him for the errors, it's his job to catch them all; however, I think he has too much to do for one man. The worst thing is that a lot of the errors are fixed and still get put out.

For instance, most of the graphical errors happen after he signs off. They piss him off tremendously! "Along Came John" is a perfect example. Michael gets these printer "proofs". They look like the cover but there's all kinds of colored bars on edge of the paper. He approves it and off it goes to the printer. However, he approves a hard copy and a soft copy goes to the printer. If the keeper of that soft copy sends the wrong file... you can see where this goes, right? Like I said, the end error is ultimately his fault: he's the producer. What should have happened is that he should have checked the first production batch of discs and fixed any errors but I get the feeling that he doesn't always do a lot of "post-release" checks. That's also why "Dialogue" got screwed up. It was obvious when you listened, but does everyone listen? I don't think so. I don't know how anyone in his position could possibly listen to all the pre-CD mastered DATs, review all the copy, listen to all the post-production samples and re-read all the liners etc. of every CD he's got a hand in. On top of that, he's still in the studio on occasion (supposedly with Blanchard for his BN debut) and he has a LIFE.

FWIW, I recently pleaded with Michael to send me some advance copies of these upcoming SACDs. I want to make sure these get done right. With their projected $20+ price tag, people are gonna scream bloody murder if they're screwed up. I like Michael and I'd like to help him avoid that if I can.

BTW, those "Booby Hutcherson" and "Bobby Hucherson" spelling errors as well as many of the recording date screw-ups (like the RVG of "Midnight Blue") are correct in Michael's files on his computer so the process of getting what he has on his computer over to the printers seems to be the process they need to fix, if you ask me.... Hmmm... they need a good computer guy.... Nah! They couldn't afford me!:D

Later,

Kevin

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I know the guy's busy....but is he a one-man show? No interns...?"hey kid, sit down and listen to "Dialogue" like your life depends on it. Welcome to the music business."

All I know is I have a defective "Along Came John" and "Dialogue". Sure, I can send in a proof of purchase, boxtop and 50 cents with a self-addressed stamped envelope.... But that's not my point.

Now that I'm off the BNBB I feel a little more freedom to complain about their b.s. as a paying customer. Get it right Blue Note. Cuscuna or not. They're putting out a VERY limited amount of reissues per year. Someone can get the job done correctly. Excuses don't hold a lot of water in the business world. Blue Note should be no exception. Plus, they're not even "man" enough to recall their defective product!!! Bullshit for the unexpecting. Hallmarks of a company that doesn't give a rat's ass about their consumers. As they've so aptly shown in pre and post-Norah. I can see even less attention to detail on reissues now.

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I know the guy's busy....but is he a one-man show? No interns...?"hey kid, sit down and listen to "Dialogue" like your life depends on it. Welcome to the music business."

All I know is I have a defective "Along Came John" and "Dialogue". Sure, I can send in a proof of purchase, boxtop and 50 cents with a self-addressed stamped envelope.... But that's not my point.

Now that I'm off the BNBB I feel a little more freedom to complain about their b.s. as a paying customer. Get it right Blue Note. Cuscuna or not. They're putting out a VERY limited amount of reissues per year. Someone can get the job done correctly. Excuses don't hold a lot of water in the business world. Blue Note should be no exception. Plus, they're not even "man" enough to recall their defective product!!! Bullshit for the unexpecting. Hallmarks of a company that doesn't give a rat's ass about their consumers. As they've so aptly shown in pre and post-Norah. I can see even less attention to detail on reissues now.

SS, man, you're posting with a bitter taste in your mouth and it shows. Chill out and stop looking to vent about the board's ugly death.

I cannot stress enough to you how much Michael Cuscuna cares about his work. He is just as upset at any screw-ups as you are.

You may not believe me or you may not care but I think it needs to be stressed that these mistakes have not nor have ever been "fluffed off" like the guys at Blue Note don't care. THEY DO CARE.

But I'll leave this discussion this way: SHIT HAPPENS!! (Man, I always wanted to type that at the Blue Note board) IT HAPPENS TO EVERYONE. Are you trying to tell me that you can honestly sit there and say you've never made a mistake at your work? Can anyone ever make that statement? Cuscuna and everyone at Blue Note are human beings. They make mistakes. If there are insufficient checks and balances, be it man or machine, those mistakes will slip through to the final product. It's part of life... just like Blue Note's fucked up way of killing their board.

Later,

Kevin

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Well, like I said Kevin, being off the BNBB makes me feel a little more at ease in vocalizing my past dissatisfactions. Kind of like bitching about your old girlfriend's bad habits once you broken up. I wouldn't qualify it as bitterness, just a chance to say what you've always wanted to. Although it might come off as such. Matter of fact, I think I'm probably the one of the least affected by the end of the BNBB. I haven't felt like it's changed anything for me. I actually like this board better believe it or not. Admittedly it hasn't helped my view of Blue Note, but I think my points are good ones nonetheless.

I think you're a little defensive about Michael Cuscuna and it shows. ;) You have a personal relationship with him and I don't. You might feel a need to vouch for his intentions. No vouching needed, his intentions are unquestionable in the world of jazz. That said, accountability for mistakes and making sure they don't repeat is something Tom or someone at Blue Note should address. Leaving bad product out in the marketplace isn't good business. I'm not sure how you would defend that Kevin?

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That's right. I was referring to Lou playing Varitone on this...Yanow mistakes it for a Baritone Sax.

Hey, the "v" and the "b" are next to each other on the keyboard. Could be a typo, and proofreading ain't exactly the strong suit at AMG.

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Yeah, but he states that in two different reviews, so I'm doubting that was the case unless lightning struck twice. Good guess though.

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Soul Stream,

More likely, Yanow hadn't a clue what a varitone was and thought it was a typo...

I think Michael does a great job, and I certainly can believe a lot of the errors happen after he's signed off.

But as you pointed out, I'm sure they could find a couple of enthusiastic interns to do quality review of the final product before it hits the streets in exchange for a few comp copies of said CDs. Aric would have killed for the job. He probably was not the best person to do it, but I'm sure there are others out there...What about the Blue Note Street Team?

Edited by bertrand

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Yeah, I don't really want to dredge up the ol' Blue Note quality blah, blah, blah. I guess I started it, so I'd like to make an effort to return this thread to it's original intent.

I think a full Mosaic of Patton's work would be justified. The Mosaic Select is fine for certain artists with a limited catalog. Grachan, Carmell...but Patton is a different story IMHO. The titles that were selected are a little curious to say the least. Hop, skip and jump around someone's extensive Blue Note output seems odd...what's the point? If it was to make the domestic unavailable they succeeded a bit, but regress with Along and Let Roll, plus Understanding is easily found. No new tracks is a put off for me to buy it. It just doesn't add anything new or complete Patton's legacy.

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I'll still be searchin' for "Got A Good Thing Goin' ", though

Guess I'll only have to look for this one until April 22. It's part of Blue Note's next Rare Groove release. :D

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...If it was to make the domestic unavailable they succeeded a bit, but regress with Along and Let Roll, plus Understanding is easily found. No new tracks is a put off for me to buy it. It just doesn't add anything new or complete Patton's legacy.

"Let 'em Roll" will not be included in the set, per the email I received from Mosaic (although, it wouldn't have bothered me - that's my favorite Patton session :) )

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If nothing else, I would've liked to have seen a box of all the sessions of what I refer to as the Holy Trinity of Greeeaze: Patton, Green, & Dixon. I can think of a few off the top of my head:

Oh Baby

Along Came John

The Natural Soul (Lou Donaldson)

Blues for Lou

Steppin' Out (Harold Vick)

The Way I Feel

I'm sure there are others, none of which I can recall immediately.

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I've been in need of a little greeze lately and have been eyeing THE NATURAL SOUL. Also thinking about BOSS TENORS IN ORBIT!, what's the grease factor on that one?

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