JSngry

Let's Reopen Old Wounds!

233 posts in this topic

http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cf...p;art_aid=20524

I was clearing out a few PMs and came across one from this guy waaaay back in the day. I agreed to talk, but never heard anything back from him. Seems like he had more pressing matters to deal with, which I understand. But I was curious if he ever wrote anything. Sure enough, he did.

Check it out, and relive the angst!

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You have to sign up to view that. Can you post the article itself?

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Ahhh, those were the days!

Norah Jones is a very successful singer/pianist with a bluesy, slightly jazzy, very commercial sound that has put Blue Note on the map.

R-i-i-i-i-g-h-t ... :crazy:

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This guy wasn't interested in giving us a fair shake so really what's the point?

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I don't recall the backlash to Norah being so horribly negative--it was more sarcastic with lots of clowning around. Not "hatred."

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I like how immediately after Norah Jones won a Grammy and all of a sudden BN was in the spotlight.... They became understaffed to the point where they couldn't afford to maintain the forum. That's such a line of B.S.!!!! C'mon...I'm no conspiracy theorist. But please, any CEO worth their weight in Starbucks would know they don't want to offend the new 1,000,000 Norah Jones fans checking out the BN site only to find complete mayhem and "less-than-Norah-ecstasy" being spoken on their forums. Let's be realistic ya'll!!! Snorah Jones soccer moms and Hank Mobley freaks don't mix!

Let's put it this way.... Now that they've sold a bazzillion Norah records....I guess they can hire an intern to watch and maintain a forum. Guess it'll be up again any day now.... :g

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And they seemed oblivious to the uproar they had caused their fan base...

The heck they didn't know about the uproar <_< -- or at least they shouldn't have had any excuse for not knowing.

Tom Evered (tomatbluenote) should have known -- he posted there enough to know the value and loyalty of (at least some of) the BNBB community.

And -- what's his name?? -- the sysadmin of the old BNBB (I hesitate to use the word "moderator" - cuz there was so little "moderating" going on). Presumably he would have known too. Although in his defense, I'm sure he was overworked, underpaid, and probably (almost certainly) one of those who were laid off at the time.

One thing's for sure, it certainly was a culture clash. Anybody remember Musicboy? Yeah, that happened here, long after the BNBB's demise -- but that was tangentially related to the Norah thing too, in its own way.

But the thing is, I really DON'T think it was all just anti-Norah bashing that brought everything down. Personally I think it was the complete lack of moderation that created a climate for "absolutely anything goes". That, plus a political forum (or was it politics in the "general discussion" forum?? - I forget if there was a separate area for politics), that REALLY allowed things to spin out of control, long before the Norah thing happened.

(Remember, here our political forum isn't visible until after you become a member (thank god!), and even then you can opt in or out of seeing the political forum. The number of "politics trolls" is pretty reasonable around here, for the most part.)

Here's a short but interesting view of the whole thing (at the time), from the perspective of the Steve Hoffman Forum. Note: the second(!) post in the thread mentions Norah.

Edited by Rooster_Ties

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I just think it boils down to....

We didn't dig Norah and she was making them a shitload of money.

Case closed.

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...oh yeah...

Plus that forum was super fucking out of control.... :g

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...oh yeah...

Plus that forum was super fucking out of control.... :g

Heh heh... those were the days eh?

Seriously, we know this guy don't we? Why is his name familiar?

By the way I take this with a pinch - journalists are usually referred to as 'hacks' rather than 'geniuses' for a reason and this is just a bit of creative-writing style page filler.

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And they seemed oblivious to the uproar they had caused their fan base, because quite honestly, these weren't their fan base anymore. Their fan base were the people buying Norah Jones records. These other people were part of some other time and place. They were good for a couple of thousand in sales, but in their entire history didn't buy as many albums as Norah Jones sold in a few short weeks.

At least we're still important enough for Blue Note to continue the flow of RVG reissues.

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Nostalgia rules! :(

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One thing's for sure, it certainly was a culture clash. Anybody remember Musicboy?

:rfr

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So a psychiatrist said that there is a strong male identity to jazz forums and the members feel threatened by females.

Comments?

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Must be one of those girly-man psychiatrists. :g

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I just think it boils down to....

We didn't dig Norah and she was making them a shitload of money.

Case closed.

I dug Norah, and I think I said so at the time. I still dig Norah. Her new album is quite good. She certainly didn't deserve to be such a polarizing figure.

It's not mentioned in the article, but I do remember provoking the ire of Tom Evered when I commented that EMI seemed to be downplaying Norah's ethnicity. My point was that with the paucity of Asian Americans in the pop music world, it would be nice to note that one of the top selling recording artists of the moment was - in fact - Indian (or part-Indian). This had nothing to do with the whole Norah/Ravi thing, but rather the fact that the cover photo for "Come Away With Me" looked like it had been specifically designed to lighten Norah's skin color. Tom FREAKED at this observation, and claimed that it wasn't anybody at Blue Note or EMI that was trying to surpress Norah's ethnic background. (But then why was it such a revelation that Norah is Ravi's daughter? Why not just mention it straight out in the press release on her website?)

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I just think it boils down to....

We didn't dig Norah and she was making them a shitload of money.

Case closed.

I dug Norah, and I think I said so at the time. I still dig Norah. Her new album is quite good. She certainly didn't deserve to be such a polarizing figure.

It's not mentioned in the article, but I do remember provoking the ire of Tom Evered when I commented that EMI seemed to be downplaying Norah's ethnicity. My point was that with the paucity of Asian Americans in the pop music world, it would be nice to note that one of the top selling recording artists of the moment was - in fact - Indian (or part-Indian). This had nothing to do with the whole Norah/Ravi thing, but rather the fact that the cover photo for "Come Away With Me" looked like it had been specifically designed to lighten Norah's skin color. Tom FREAKED at this observation, and claimed that it wasn't anybody at Blue Note or EMI that was trying to surpress Norah's ethnic background. (But then why was it such a revelation that Norah is Ravi's daughter? Why not just mention it straight out in the press release on her website?)

I don't recall that exchange. I'm guessing the writer of this article completely missed it.

I think Norah is the one who originally suppressed the information about being Ravi Shankar's daughter, not Blue Note.

edit - I also don't think most people here really "hated" Norah, it's simply the fact that she wasn't what we consider(ed) to be an artist that belonged on Blue Note. Stick her on any of the other EMI labels, and I'm sure the BNBB discussions about her would have been quite different.

edit 2 - Now in hindsight it seems more clear that she was simply the first step in a different direction that Blue Note was ultimately taking. Had she not been successful, maybe this would have never happened, but BN has had alot more Norah-related releases since then (Amos Lee, Keren Ann, Bees on a Cake or whatever they're called), none of which most here would consider to be jazz material.

Edited by Aggie87

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I recall whan Norah Jones got multiple nominations for the Grammys shortly before the Board's end, there was much cheering on the BNBB !

Obviously the powers that were did not care about the positive reactions!

In the end, the closure was a good thing!

Our new home is much better :tup

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Nostalgia rules! :(

Thing is, I actually prefer this board. I guess I sometimes feel nostalgic for BNBB as my doorway to jazz discussion on the Internet, but... hardly ever think about it that way now.

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I recall whan Norah Jones got multiple nominations for the Grammys shortly before the Board's end, there was much cheering on the BNBB !

IIRC, it was generally in the line of "The commercial success is good for Blue Note, in that they can put more money into jazz reissues". There wasn't much enthousiasm for Norah Jones and her music.

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