Mark Stryker

"We Three" label confusion

21 posts in this topic

I'm hoping somebody can clear something up for me. Yesterday I bought a used LP of the Roy Haynes' trio record "We Three" with Phineas Newborn and Paul Chambers. Great side, of course. I've had it forever as an OJC LP and on CD, but this appeared to be an original copy and it was at a killer price -- $3 -- and even though it physically looked a bit scuffed and the cover spine was maybe 60 percent split, it was still impossible to pass up. As it turns out, it sounds great, with just a bit of surface noise. It's a mono recording, by the way.

OK, here's the question. On the front of the jacket, the label is listed as New Jazz. However, on the back, the label is listed as Status. The inner label on the record is the orange Status liner with that familiar logo (the s-that's-also-an-arrow.) I always thought this record first came out on New Jazz (purple label), which is the indication of my OJC. I know that New Jazz and Status were both Prestige subsidiaries. So what gives with this LP? Why does it say different things in different spots? Frankly, it looks like a fuck-up, which I suppose is entirely possible -- like a misprinted stamp or something that gets recalled right away. Perhaps it's worth more on the collector's market because of the mistake.

So, if anybody out there wants to offer me an obscene amount of money for this, I'm all ears.

Explanations anyone?

Edited by Mark Stryker

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I'm hoping somebody can clear something up for me. Yesterday I bought a used LP of the Roy Haynes' trio record "We Three" with Phineas Newborn and Paul Chambers. Great side, of course. I've had it forever as an OJC LP and on CD, but this appeared to be an original copy and it was at a killer price -- $3 -- and even though it physically looked a bit scuffed and the cover spine was maybe 60 percent split, it was still impossible to pass up. As it turns out, it sounds great, with just a bit of surface noise. It's a mono recording, by the way.

OK, here's the question. On the front of the jacket, the label is listed as New Jazz. However, on the back, the label is listed as Status. The inner label on the record is the orange Status liner with that familiar logo (the s-that's-also-an-arrow.) I always thought this record first came out on New Jazz (purple label), which is the indication of my OJC. I know that New Jazz and Status were both Prestige subsidiaries. So what gives with this LP? Why does it say different things in different spots? Frankly, it looks like a fuck-up, which I suppose is entirely possible -- like a misprinted stamp or something that gets recalled right away. Perhaps it's worth more on the collector's market because of the mistake.

So, if anybody out there wants to offer me an obscene amount of money for this, I'm all ears.

Explanations anyone?

The original is definitely on New Jazz. Status releases are, for the most part, reissues from the Prestige/New Jazz catalog. They came out in the mid 1960's. They were sold at budget prices, usually $1.50 - $2.00. Often, the covers and labels don't match. This may be because they had some covers left over, and pressed up a few Status records to go in them, or perhaps it was too expensive to change the cover art. I have seen Status records in New Jazz covers, I have seen Status records in covers that have a Status sticker pasted over the New Jazz logo, and I have seen Status records in Status covers. Such is typical of a small operation like Prestige. The Status pressings, like many New Jazz pressings, are noisy - usually hissy, because they are pressed on low grade vinyl.

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I've got a Prestige catalogue from Spring 1964. The prices it gives are

PR 7000 Series 4.98

NJ 8200 Series 3.98

MV 1-39 Series 3.98

SV 2000 Series3.98

Gospel 60000 Series 3.98

Folklore 14000 Series 4.98

Int 13000 Series 3.98

Int 25000 Series 4.98

BV 1000 Series 3.98

Irish 35000 Series 3.98

Lively Arts 30000 Series 4.98

Near East 45000 Series 3.98

So most of Prestige's labels were priced lower than PR, but not much.

Status doesn't appear in that list. It had probably been phased out by then. Most of those labels were on their way out. A catalogue for August/September 1964 contains only material on Prestige (4.98), Bluesville (3.98) and Folklore (4.98).

MG

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After a bit more research, it appears that there were actually some LPs released on the Status label.

The NJLP series ends at 8303. According to the Prestige discography, 8304-8327 were issued on Status with an ST prefix. Most of these are straight reissues of PR7000 series releases, though there are some compilations of material previously issued on 10" or whatever, an MV reissue, one from TruSound, and a couple of themed various artist compilations . But there are four that seem never to have been issued before the Status issues.

8314 Red Garland - Little darlin' - previously unissued material from the Prelude live session

8321 Latin Jazz Quintet - Latin soul - unissued material from the "Hot sauce" sessions

8322 John Wright - The last amen - Wright's penultimate album for the company

8326 Red Garland - Live - more material from the Prelude

None of these ST83XX series appears in the Spring 1964 catalogue. They must either have already been deleted by then or the catalogue simply didn't list the cheapos. All the John Wright LPs had been deleted by then, however, so I rather think that Prestige was having a major catalogue clearout in 1963 and 1964.

I don't know whether these ST issues looked like New Jazz or whatever. The Fantasy twofer of the Latin Jazz Quintet (PR24128) states that "Latin soul" was issued on New Jazz 8321. I rather suspect they loked like Status issues - orange label with the arrow "S" - and the same trademark on the sleeve.

MG

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In 1969 I bought Herbie Mann's Flute Souffle mono for probably $1.99 when the record stores were clearing out their mono copies of everything.

Both the front and back of the album cover say Status, but the record itself is a blue label Prestige. It's always sounded OK to me.

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Here is the complete list of the 8300 series on the New Jazz/Status labels (8200 series were released on the New Jazz label). Of the Status titels, 8303, 8304, 8305, 8306, 8314, 8315, 8316, 8317 and 8318 have not been released earlier (8304 and 8305 have partly been released as 16-RPM).

Apart from these "original" titels, the Status label, as Stereojack pointed out, was mainly used for reissues of earlier New Jazz/Prestige titels. By the way, some (earlier) New Jazz titels were in fact reissues as well of earlier Prestige titels, for instance Ray Bryant Trio (NJ 8227), The Sounds Of Yusef (NJ 8261) and Jackie McLean - Lights Out (NJ 8263).

NJLP 8301 Clifford Brown Memorial (not released)

NJLP 8302 Zoot Sims - Trotting (not released)

ST 8303 Ahmed Abdul-Malik - Spellbound

ST 8304 Phil Woods/Red Garland - Sugan

ST 8305 Curtis Fuller And Hampton Hawes With French Horns

ST 8306 Kai Winding/Gerry Mulligan/Red Rodney - Broadway

ST 8307 Hampton Hawes/Freddie Redd - Move!

ST 8308 Wynton Kelly With Steve Lacy

ST 8309 Zoot Sims/Phil Woods/Jon Eardley - Koo Koo

ST 8310 Frank Wess/Thad Jones - Touche

ST 8311 Hank Mobley - 52nd Street Theme

ST 8312 Jackie McLean - Alto Madness

ST 8313 The Billy Taylor Trio At Town Hall

ST 8314 Red Garland - Lil' Darlin'

ST 8315 V.A. - My Fair Lady

ST 8316 Mal Waldron - The Dealers

ST 8317 V.A. - Body And Soul

ST 8318 V.A. - Guitar Soul

ST 8319 V.A. - Lusty Moods

NJLP 8320 Clea Bradford With Oliver Nelson And Clark Terry

NJLP 8321 The Latin Jazz Quintet - Latin Soul

NJLP 8322 John Wright - The Last Amen

NJLP 8323 Jackie McLean And Co.

NJLP 8324 Oliver Nelson - Screamin' The Blues

NJLP 8325 Red Garland - High Pressure

NJLP 8326 Red Garland Live!

NJLP 8327 John Coltrane/Frank Wess - Wheelin' And Dealin'

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8321 Latin Jazz Quintet - Latin soul - unissued material from the "Hot sauce" sessions

The cover scans of Latin Soul I have seen and the sources I have list this as a New Jazz issue with that number.

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I've been swamped with Detroit Jazz Festival coverage ever since posting my initial question, so I haven't been able to respond until now, but I wanted to thank everyone for their detailed responses -- I learned a lot. Interestingly, I happened to see Ira Gitler at the festival -- he wrote the original liner notes for "We Three" -- and when I asked him about the label/jacket/liner issue (front of the jacket saying New Jazz; back of the jacket saying Status), his best explanation was that it was simply a screw up.

MS

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I've got a Prestige catalogue from Spring 1964. The prices it gives are

PR 7000 Series 4.98

NJ 8200 Series 3.98

MV 1-39 Series 3.98

SV 2000 Series3.98

Gospel 60000 Series 3.98

Folklore 14000 Series 4.98

Int 13000 Series 3.98

Int 25000 Series 4.98

BV 1000 Series 3.98

Irish 35000 Series 3.98

Lively Arts 30000 Series 4.98

Near East 45000 Series 3.98

So most of Prestige's labels were priced lower than PR, but not much.

Status doesn't appear in that list. It had probably been phased out by then. Most of those labels were on their way out. A catalogue for August/September 1964 contains only material on Prestige (4.98), Bluesville (3.98) and Folklore (4.98).

MG

MG, as Stereojack said, the Status issues were from the mid-60's. '65-ish, I think.

As far as the notion that the mis-matching of labels and covers was a "screw-up"... I don't think so. Just factories using up their inventories of materials (I doubt they really gave a rat's ass about everything matching). The same phenomenon is well-documented as occuring at Blue Note and other labels.

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After a bit more research, it appears that there were actually some LPs released on the Status label.

The NJLP series ends at 8303. According to the Prestige discography, 8304-8327 were issued on Status with an ST prefix. Most of these are straight reissues of PR7000 series releases, though there are some compilations of material previously issued on 10" or whatever, an MV reissue, one from TruSound, and a couple of themed various artist compilations . But there are four that seem never to have been issued before the Status issues.

8314 Red Garland - Little darlin' - previously unissued material from the Prelude live session

8321 Latin Jazz Quintet - Latin soul - unissued material from the "Hot sauce" sessions

8322 John Wright - The last amen - Wright's penultimate album for the company

8326 Red Garland - Live - more material from the Prelude

MG

As Mike said, the LJQ was first out on New Jazz.

Same is true of "Red Garland- Live" and the John Wright LP, according to my Goldmine guide. "Lil' Darlin'" may be the only one that was Status-only... not sure.

Edited by Jim R

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After a bit more research, it appears that there were actually some LPs released on the Status label.

The NJLP series ends at 8303. According to the Prestige discography, 8304-8327 were issued on Status with an ST prefix. Most of these are straight reissues of PR7000 series releases, though there are some compilations of material previously issued on 10" or whatever, an MV reissue, one from TruSound, and a couple of themed various artist compilations . But there are four that seem never to have been issued before the Status issues.

8314 Red Garland - Little darlin' - previously unissued material from the Prelude live session

8321 Latin Jazz Quintet - Latin soul - unissued material from the "Hot sauce" sessions

8322 John Wright - The last amen - Wright's penultimate album for the company

8326 Red Garland - Live - more material from the Prelude

MG

As Mike said, the LJQ was first out on New Jazz.

Same is true of "Red Garland- Live" and the John Wright LP, according to my Goldmine guide. "Lil' Darlin'" may be the only one that was Status-only... not sure.

That's definitely what it looks like. I'm going by the Michel Ruppli Prestige dioscography from 1980. I do know that he had imperfect info on a number of points, regarding sessions not issued at the time, but I assumed that as far as what had actually come out, he was accurate.

MG

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Gang:

Just to be clear again about my particular LP: The issue is not a mismatched inner LP label and jacket cover: It's the fact that the front of the cover says New Jazz and the back of the cover says Status.

MS

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Wasn't New Jazz the budget label for Prestige?

Is this true? I always thought that New Jazz handled the more "out" jazz while Prestige handled the more "mainstream" jazz. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Wasn't New Jazz the budget label for Prestige?

Is this true? I always thought that New Jazz handled the more "out" jazz while Prestige handled the more "mainstream" jazz. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct.

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Wasn't New Jazz the budget label for Prestige?

Is this true? I always thought that New Jazz handled the more "out" jazz while Prestige handled the more "mainstream" jazz. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct.

Right, but the New Jazz was not the budget label. (Athough the questionnable quality of the last New Jazz could make us think about cheap reissues :rolleyes: hissssssssssssssssssssssssssss)

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I've got a Prestige catalogue from Spring 1964. The prices it gives are

PR 7000 Series 4.98

NJ 8200 Series 3.98

MV 1-39 Series 3.98

SV 2000 Series3.98

Gospel 60000 Series 3.98

Folklore 14000 Series 4.98

Int 13000 Series 3.98

Int 25000 Series 4.98

BV 1000 Series 3.98

Irish 35000 Series 3.98

Lively Arts 30000 Series 4.98

Near East 45000 Series 3.98

So most of Prestige's labels were priced lower than PR, but not much.

Status doesn't appear in that list. It had probably been phased out by then. Most of those labels were on their way out. A catalogue for August/September 1964 contains only material on Prestige (4.98), Bluesville (3.98) and Folklore (4.98).

MG

When i read it, i definitely think that you are the Captain, MG. I'm only the Co pilot :lol:

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Jump bumping this conversation to the present... I love reading through these archives to

discover the wealth of research of board members.

I recently acquired two vintage John Wright Prestige pressings that share the same

characteristics of LPs previously mentioned in this thread - Status Front Covers/Back Covers/Catalog

numbers (ST-XXX) but with Yellow& Black fireworks labels (matrix numbers in the 7000s) on the actual vinyl.

Both LPs were beat to hell but they much better than they looked.

Given, we can estimate that Status was the budget label for Prestige c 1965 -can my two John

Wright sides be considered cut outs (and hence close to first pressings)?

best

trevor

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On 9/1/2007 at 8:17 PM, Stereojack said:

 

 

The original is definitely on New Jazz. Status releases are, for the most part, reissues from the Prestige/New Jazz catalog. They came out in the mid 1960's. They were sold at budget prices, usually $1.50 - $2.00. Often, the covers and labels don't match. This may be because they had some covers left over, and pressed up a few Status records to go in them, or perhaps it was too expensive to change the cover art. I have seen Status records in New Jazz covers, I have seen Status records in covers that have a Status sticker pasted over the New Jazz logo, and I have seen Status records in Status covers. Such is typical of a small operation like Prestige. The Status pressings, like many New Jazz pressings, are noisy - usually hissy, because they are pressed on low grade vinyl.

Trying to figure out why my copy of Bill Jennings/Jack McDuff's Glide On with the Prestige 7177 cover has a Status label record inside leads me here. Someone wrote "1967" on the back cover, which would jive with what you mention about the mid-60s release dates for the Status pressings using leftover covers.

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O.K. It's time to say it. If a person wants to reply to a long post, there is no need to quote the whole thing. It bloats most threads on here and is tedious. All one needs to say is something like "Further to your post, Charlie, ... ". I have no idea how much storage capacity this site has, but at least 1/3 of the data must be this repetition.

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