Shrdlu

Mingus "Complete Debut Recordings" set

59 posts in this topic

I just picked up on this collection a few days ago. It's going to be a ball to hear it. 12 CD's!

To begin with, I just went for the fantastic 1955 Cafe Bohemia set. I've always loved that session. Eddie Bert and George Barrow are wonderful soloists! And has Mal Waldron ever played better?

Next was a revisit to the Massey Hall Concert, partly to compare the original tracks with the versions with Mingus's overdubbed bass lines, which were used for the LP, of course. Great to hear it all again. Dizzy screaming the Carmen lick, Max's inspired cowbell, Bird still playing fantastically, and all the rest.

It's going to take a long while to hear all the other music - none of which I have ever heard.

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Loads of good stuff on this set plus a couple of interesting misses.

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Is there a track listing of this set anywhere?, I would be curious to see how many sessions with John LaPorta are on there or are there even any?

Edited by Cliff Englewood

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Is there a track listing of this set anywhere?, I would be curious to see how many sessions with John LaPorta are on there or are there even any?

upon a very quick glance on the mingus jazzdisco discography there shouldn't be any... there is some laporta in the small debut records story box... the stuff under his own name is now out in spain... there is one track from the alonzo levister debut album which sound pretty good, but the rest is not on cd, plus there are two or so tracks from vocalist ada moore's album on there which heavily feature laporta iirc (!) but these shouldn't be in the big box since mingus is not on them...(?)

http://cgi.ebay.de/With-Tal-Farlow-Laporta...tem370160341731

wish i had the big box, but i did get some of the contained music on single cds lately, the john dennis album is great (are the solo tracks included?), as is the knepper/maini album...

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The solo tracks are not included in the box set.

I've had this box set since it was released I think, or shortly thereafter. A true cornucopia. Variety and so many great sessions.

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where did you "pick this up?"

One of those Amazon sellers - you know, the ones with the lower prices. My set is second-hand.

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Is there a track listing of this set anywhere?, I would be curious to see how many sessions with John LaPorta are on there or are there even any?

Niko has probably fully answered your questions, but if you need any more info, I will be glad to help.

The online Mingus discography refers to this box set, so I think that has all the answers. I have been playing the disks on the computer with that discograpy on the desktop.

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Is that George Duvivier on the mystery session?

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The solo tracks are not included in the box set.

I've had this box set since it was released I think, or shortly thereafter. A true cornucopia. Variety and so many great sessions.

What solo tracks?

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The solo tracks are not included in the box set.

I've had this box set since it was released I think, or shortly thereafter. A true cornucopia. Variety and so many great sessions.

What solo tracks?

answer to my question, the john dennis solo tracks found on the debut rarities cd..

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Is there a track listing of this set anywhere?, I would be curious to see how many sessions with John LaPorta are on there or are there even any?

upon a very quick glance on the mingus jazzdisco discography there shouldn't be any... there is some laporta in the small debut records story box... the stuff under his own name is now out in spain... there is one track from the alonzo levister debut album which sound pretty good, but the rest is not on cd, plus there are two or so tracks from vocalist ada moore's album on there which heavily feature laporta iirc (!) but these shouldn't be in the big box since mingus is not on them...(?)

http://cgi.ebay.de/With-Tal-Farlow-Laporta...tem370160341731

wish i had the big box, but i did get some of the contained music on single cds lately, the john dennis album is great (are the solo tracks included?), as is the knepper/maini album...

I once emailed Mosaic about maybe releasing the two John LaPorta Debut albums ("The John LaPorta Quintet" and "Three Moods") as well as the Alonzo Levister Debut album featuring LaPorta ("Manhattan Monodrama"). The response I received from "MC" was: "I think the demand for these would be less than what we would have to guarantee Fantasy which consigns them to oblivion unfortunately." I've been particularly interested in hearing that Alonzo Levister album ever since hearing "Slow Dance" recorded by Coltrane ("Traneing In")

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Four of the LaPorta tracks and one Levister are contained in the Debut Records Story box.

Some good deals on this interesting set via Amazon.

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Is there a track listing of this set anywhere?, I would be curious to see how many sessions with John LaPorta are on there or are there even any?

upon a very quick glance on the mingus jazzdisco discography there shouldn't be any... there is some laporta in the small debut records story box... the stuff under his own name is now out in spain... there is one track from the alonzo levister debut album which sound pretty good, but the rest is not on cd, plus there are two or so tracks from vocalist ada moore's album on there which heavily feature laporta iirc (!) but these shouldn't be in the big box since mingus is not on them...(?)

http://cgi.ebay.de/With-Tal-Farlow-Laporta...tem370160341731

wish i had the big box, but i did get some of the contained music on single cds lately, the john dennis album is great (are the solo tracks included?), as is the knepper/maini album...

Thanks for that, I didn't know about the Ada Moore, f13912uf0fd.jpg it sounds interesting more than essential.

I don't know why I have such a Mingus/LaPorta curiosity, and I don't know why I thought they did more together than this.

51WYPC7SXAL._SS500_.jpg

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Four of the LaPorta tracks and one Levister are contained in the Debut Records Story box.

Some good deals on this interesting set via Amazon.

And now for a really dumb question--sorry!--but was there a lot of stuff recorded for Debut that Mingus himself didn't play on? That is, how much Debut material, more or less, was there that was not reissued in the Mingus box? I've never invested in the Debut Story box because I have the Mingus. How much overlap is there? Is it worth having both?

greg mo

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There are a significant number of tracks from other artists and sessions that are not in the Mingus box. However, if you have the Mingus box, and if you have the two Charlie Parker releases that were on Debut, the Max Roach and Kenny Dorham releases, there is less in the box set that you don't have. . . isn't that great a deal. Very nice booklet I'd say, and the box is available at a pretty nice price here and there.

Edited by jazzbo

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There are a significant number of tracks from other artists and sessions that are not in the Mingus box. However, if you have the Mingus box, and if you have the two Charlie Parker releases that were on Debut, the Max Roach and Kenny Dorham releases, there is less in the box set that you don't have. . . isn't that great a deal. Very nice booklet I'd say, and the box is available at a pretty nice price here and there.

there are some nice further tracks on it, like the john dennis solo piece, some of the ada moore, one of the alonzo levister tunes, one tune from sam most's debut album (with pretty amazing clarinet playing), the latter two not available anywhere else for instance... but nothing substantial maybe... (the kenny dorham debut album is great !)

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Some questions regarding this box:

1) I see that there were 5 individual releases of "Debut Rarities." Do these cover everything on the box other than complete albums otherwise available (Ada Moore, Mingus at the Bohemia, etc.)?

2) Is there any way to get the non-overdubbed Massey Hall concert other than on this box?

217DH68MDBL.jpg21NSH7J3YSL.jpg51%2B-UPDkuuL._SX300_.jpg41K4MK3TRRL._SX300_.jpg5149T01N5DL._SX300_.jpg

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Answer to question two is - to my best knowledge - no, not sure if any yurpeen cheapo label has put it out again, but not Fantasy (or by now Concord).

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2) Is there any way to get the non-overdubbed Massey Hall concert other than on this box?

Answer to question two is - to my best knowledge - no, not sure if any yurpeen cheapo label has put it out again, but not Fantasy (or by now Concord).

Actually, the answer is yes: on the yurpeen cheapo label Jazz Factory (not endorsing, just informing). :rolleyes:

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Not entirely sure, but I think Disc 9, Track 1-3 is an example for a session which is not available elsewhere (which would mean "No" to Q1):

Disc 9, 1-3: Don Senay (voc); Thad Jones, Louis Mucci (tp); unknown (brass); John LaPorta, Julius Baker (woodwinds); Billy Taylor (p); unknown (harp); Jackson Wiley (cello); unknown (strings); Milt Hinton, Fred Zimmerman [Charles Mingus?] (b); Joe Morello (d, perc) or unknown (perc); Alonzo Levister (arr)

  1. The Edge Of Love (2:48) (Baker/Ables/Goode)
  2. Makin' Whoopee (2:38) (Donaldson/Kahn)
  3. Fanny (3:01) (Rome)

http://mingus.onttonen.info/details/fantasy/debut.html

(upon first sight, this concerns Disc 9, 1-4, 4 is on the small Debut Records Story Box though, and the final track on Disc 12)

Edited by Niko

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There are a significant number of tracks from other artists and sessions that are not in the Mingus box. However, if you have the Mingus box, and if you have the two Charlie Parker releases that were on Debut, the Max Roach and Kenny Dorham releases, there is less in the box set that you don't have. . . isn't that great a deal. Very nice booklet I'd say, and the box is available at a pretty nice price here and there.

What are (were) the 2 Charlie Parker releases on Debut?

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I think there were six EP records: Bird At St. Nick's Vols. 1-3, and Bird on 52nd St. Vols. 1-3. Not sure how many LPs this material was released on. OJC put out two cds.

Edited by jazzbo

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"Bird at St. Nicks" and "Bird on 52nd Street" - both later reissued as part of the OJCCD series.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 52nd is also in the Dean Benedetti box - Jimmy Knepper source there, I think? They were actually on Debut but labelled Jazz Workshop JWS 500 (Nick's) and JWS 501 (52nd) - not sure it was an actual sublabel or just a series or whatever ... the JWS label proper only came into existence a bit later, I think?

I see Lon posted in the meantime ... so you say they appeared first as three Debut EPs (or 10" LPs)?

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