Guest Chaney

Funny Rat

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The quintet is the Chemistry session, right? (Warleigh, Watts, Wheeler, Clyne, Stevens). Did they fix the printthrough problem on the original LP for the CD reissue?

It's the same band, but I'm unfamiliar with the Chemistry session. From what my research yields, it seems like the same thing. Anyone care to chime in?

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Incidentally just a reminder that the Derek Bailey/Anthony Braxton encounter is Album of the Week, if anyone feels like chiming in. & a request: if anyone's got the Watson Bailey bio handy, could they check to see if it has anything of interest to say about the disc & type it in? Thanks. (Yes, I know that most people here hate Ben Watson's writing. Still, it's worth seeing what he's written about this one, esp. as I recall he's keen on it.)

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Re: Chemistry: the EFI website doesn't have a page for it but it says on the Stevens page:

1975, Chemistry, Vinyl VS 102/Konnex KCD 5045.

I have the LP--it's three tracks, including a nice Ornette tribute. Bad print-through problems though (the "pre-echo" you hear on some LPs due to poor tape storage) so I was wondering if this persisted on the CD. Regardless, one of my favourite Stevens albums, with some great Warleigh on it, a rather elusive figure (I'm most familiar with him for the flute on Nick Drake's Bryter Later!).

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For Kagel fans, Winter & Winter is releasing this in a few months:

The Mauricio Kagel Edition

CD I: »Pandorasbox«, »Tango alemán«, »Bestiarium«,

CD II: »(Hörspiel) Ein Aufnahmezustand«

DVD: »Ludwig van« A report by Mauricio Kagel

910 128-2

On December 24, 2006 the great contemporary composer, performer and film director Mauricio Kagel celebrates his 75th birthday. Winter & Winter publishes in a special hard cover package three most important, handpicked, historic works produced by WDR, an extraordinary German radio station which is most important for the realization of Kagel's works in the last fifty years.

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Re: Chemistry: the EFI website doesn't have a page for it but it says on the Stevens page:

1975, Chemistry, Vinyl VS 102/Konnex KCD 5045.

I have the LP--it's three tracks, including a nice Ornette tribute. Bad print-through problems though (the "pre-echo" you hear on some LPs due to poor tape storage) so I was wondering if this persisted on the CD. Regardless, one of my favourite Stevens albums, with some great Warleigh on it, a rather elusive figure (I'm most familiar with him for the flute on Nick Drake's Bryter Later!).

Well, the index # is the same--it's the same album. If there's a print-through problem, then it's generally inaudible; I only gave it a cursory (and probably distracted) spin today, and nothing really jumped out at me (besides--how severe are the LP problems? Other albums with this issue--Ornette's Soapsuds, Soapsuds comes to mind--the CD reissue, anyway--aren't so 'infected' as to be completely distracted).

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The pre-echo only mattered a lot on the bass features on Side A, since it was very audible in the silences between each outcrop of activity.

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The pre-echo only mattered a lot on the bass features on Side A, since it was very audible in the silences between each outcrop of activity.

Tape print thru is not necessarily a result of "bad storage". In the '60s tape "sensitivity" outpaced hardware technology and it could lay down the pre-echo instantaneously. This problem was exaggerated by "spacey" music without a regular pulse and was largely solved by the introduction of Dolby and DBX.

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Re: Chemistry: the EFI website doesn't have a page for it but it says on the Stevens page:

1975, Chemistry, Vinyl VS 102/Konnex KCD 5045.

I have the LP--it's three tracks, including a nice Ornette tribute. Bad print-through problems though (the "pre-echo" you hear on some LPs due to poor tape storage) so I was wondering if this persisted on the CD. Regardless, one of my favourite Stevens albums, with some great Warleigh on it, a rather elusive figure (I'm most familiar with him for the flute on Nick Drake's Bryter Later!).

Warleigh plays some scorching alto on The Dedication Orchestra's 'Spirits Rejoice' album. A particularly brilliant feature on Dudu's 'B My Dear'.

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Yep, I have that one too. Why so little Warleigh on record?

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isn't warleigh on some late soft machine albums (which i do not know), too

will look that up

(also love his alto playing on bryter layter (especially on chime of the city clock))

edit: (from the discography at calyx.club.fr)

SOFT MACHINE - Land of Cockayne, 1981 (EMI) [CD: OneWay'96]

Karl Jenkins (syn/elp/p [10]) - John Marshall (d)

with: Allan Holdsworth (g [4/7/8/9]) - Jack Bruce (b [1/2/4/7-9]) - Alan Parker (g [1]) - John Taylor (elp [4/7/9]) - Ray Warleigh (as [5/9/10]/bfl [2/6]) - Dick Morrissey (ts [1/7/8]) - Stu Calver (bv [1/8]) - John Perry (bv [1/8]) - Tony Rivers (bv [1/8]) - orchestra [1/3/4/8]

Rec: 16 Jun-19 Jul 1980 - Loc: Pye & Riverside Studios, London - Eng: John Temperley & Terry Evenett [Pye], Neil Richmond [Riverside] - Pr: Mike Thorne

Tracks: 1. Over 'n' Above [KJ] (7:24) - 2. Lotus Groves [KJ] (4:57) - 3. Isle Of The Blessed [KJ] (1:56) - 4. Panoramania [KJ] (7:07) - 5. Behind The Crystal Curtain [KJ] (0:54) - 6. Palace Of Glass [KJ] (3:22) - 7. Hot-Biscuit Slim [KJ] (7:27) - 8. (Black) Velvet Mountain [KJ] (5:10) - 9. Sly Monkey [KJ] (5:00) - 10. 'A Lot Of What You Fancy...' [KJ] (0:35)

Edited by Niko

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Yep, I have that one too. Why so little Warleigh on record?

Not sure - I should ask around - I don't even know if he's still playing. As soon as I heard him play on 'B My Dear', I wanted to track him down to try and do something! Great player. In fact - with that mention of Trevor Watts above - there were some damn good alto players around here in the 70s/80s/90s!

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isn't warleigh on some late soft machine albums (which i do not know), too

will look that up

(also love his alto playing on bryter layter (especially on chime of the city clock))

edit: (from the discography at calyx.club.fr)

SOFT MACHINE - Land of Cockayne, 1981 (EMI) [CD: OneWay'96]

Karl Jenkins (syn/elp/p [10]) - John Marshall (d)

with: Allan Holdsworth (g [4/7/8/9]) - Jack Bruce (b [1/2/4/7-9]) - Alan Parker (g [1]) - John Taylor (elp [4/7/9]) - Ray Warleigh (as [5/9/10]/bfl [2/6]) - Dick Morrissey (ts [1/7/8]) - Stu Calver (bv [1/8]) - John Perry (bv [1/8]) - Tony Rivers (bv [1/8]) - orchestra [1/3/4/8]

Rec: 16 Jun-19 Jul 1980 - Loc: Pye & Riverside Studios, London - Eng: John Temperley & Terry Evenett [Pye], Neil Richmond [Riverside] - Pr: Mike Thorne

Tracks: 1. Over 'n' Above [KJ] (7:24) - 2. Lotus Groves [KJ] (4:57) - 3. Isle Of The Blessed [KJ] (1:56) - 4. Panoramania [KJ] (7:07) - 5. Behind The Crystal Curtain [KJ] (0:54) - 6. Palace Of Glass [KJ] (3:22) - 7. Hot-Biscuit Slim [KJ] (7:27) - 8. (Black) Velvet Mountain [KJ] (5:10) - 9. Sly Monkey [KJ] (5:00) - 10. 'A Lot Of What You Fancy...' [KJ] (0:35)

Wow - cool lineups!

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I saw Warleigh perform with the Dedication Orchestra last year.

I've never heard that last Soft Machine album, but it's been regarded as the group "in name only."

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RAY WARLEIGH plays on the KENNY WHEELER's DREAM SEQUENCE that PSI (EVAN PARKER'S label) has published in 2003.

Edited by P.L.M

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Also IIRC on Nick Drake's Bryter Later. Some Westbrook too, no?

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Also IIRC on Nick Drake's Bryter Later. Some Westbrook too, no?

allmusic.com gives a (relatively) long list of recordings with Warleigh, most of it however is more or less pop... (and a short biography) there is an album as a leader... btw as miles davis is already spinning in his grave today, whatever Nick Drake to wanted tell us with it - its called bryter layter :) (the album title "five leaves left" comes from an "announcement" in a pack of cigarette papers)

i think its difficult to tell exactly where Soft Machine was not really itself anymore... (the departure of David Allen? Kevin Ayers? Robert Wyatt's singing? Robert Wyatt? Hugh Hopper?)... (for me, personally, the beginning of the end is the departure of kevin ayers and the real bitter dead end is karl jenkins and mike ratledge doing adiemus)

edit: i know David Allen is spelled differently :)

another edit: "ray warleigh's first album" was recently reissued on CD it seems...

Edited by Niko

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Yeah, the original Warleigh was on Philips. Have not heard it myself, but the LP used to run a fair chunk of change...

Spelling edit on the Drake, thanks for catching that. Not that I'm a big Drake fan (sold all the LPs years ago)...

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Someone here is bound to be in the know (although a lot of internet discographies are in the dark)--anyone have any opinions on the available CD issues of Musica Elettronica Viva material?

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Also IIRC on Nick Drake's Bryter Later. Some Westbrook too, no?

allmusic.com gives a (relatively) long list of recordings with Warleigh, most of it however is more or less pop... (and a short biography) there is an album as a leader... btw as miles davis is already spinning in his grave today, whatever Nick Drake to wanted tell us with it - its called bryter layter :) (the album title "five leaves left" comes from an "announcement" in a pack of cigarette papers)

i think its difficult to tell exactly where Soft Machine was not really itself anymore... (the departure of David Allen? Kevin Ayers? Robert Wyatt's singing? Robert Wyatt? Hugh Hopper?)... (for me, personally, the beginning of the end is the departure of kevin ayers and the real bitter dead end is karl jenkins and mike ratledge doing adiemus)

edit: i know David Allen is spelled differently :)

another edit: "ray warleigh's first album" was recently reissued on CD it seems...

yes, on Mike Westbrook's METROPOLIS:

Mike Westbrook - (Piano)

Nigel Carter - (Trumpet)

Kenny Wheeler - (Trumpet, Flugelhorn, Mellophone)

Harold Beckett - (Trumpet, Flugelhorn)

Henry Lowther - (Trumpet, Flugelhorn)

Dave Holdsworth - (Trumpet, Flugelhorn)

Malcolm Griffiths - (Trombone)

Paul Rutherford - (Trombone, Euphonium)

Paul Nieman - (Trombone)

Derek Wadsworth - (Trombone)

Geoff Perkins - (Bass Trombone)

Mike Osborne - (Alto Sax, Clarinet)

Ray Warleigh - (Alto Sax, Flute)

Alan Skidmore - (Tenor Sax, Soprano Sax)

George Khan - (Tenor Sax)

John Warren - (Baritone Sax)

John Taylor - (Electric Piano)

Gary Boyle - (Guitar)

Harry Miller - (Bass, Cello)

Chris Laurence - (Bass Guitar, Bass)

Alan Jackson - (Drums)

John Marshall - (Drums)

Norma Winstone - (Vocal)

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i think harry miller also plays e-bass on metropolis. i didn't realize john taylor was on it-i thought westerbrook played all the piano. great album, metropolis...

citadel/room 151 or whatever was such a disappointment compared to it. i like love songs a whole lot also.

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Someone here is bound to be in the know (although a lot of internet discographies are in the dark)--anyone have any opinions on the available CD issues of Musica Elettronica Viva material?

I only have Spacecraft/Unfied Patchwork Theory. The former is from the early days and it hurts listening to Ivan Vandor squalling on the alto sax. The latter is from 1990 or so and includes Steve Lacy and Garrett List and is quite good.

Allan Bryant has released some archival stuff, but I haven't heard it.

There's a couple of BYGs: The Sound Pool and Leave the City.

Alvin Curran on Leave the City (quoted in The Wire):

"Oh my god, that's a false MEV. Those are some French kids who robbed the name. They were once with us, they were a bunch of hippies from Paris, they took the name and turned this thing out. It was horrible. It's a bunch of hippies playing flutes. Sorry about that.

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Someone here is bound to be in the know (although a lot of internet discographies are in the dark)--anyone have any opinions on the available CD issues of Musica Elettronica Viva material?

Alvin Curran on Leave the City (quoted in The Wire):

"Oh my god, that's a false MEV. Those are some French kids who robbed the name. They were once with us, they were a bunch of hippies from Paris, they took the name and turned this thing out. It was horrible. It's a bunch of hippies playing flutes. Sorry about that.

Ha! I was looking into that one, too (one of the few I could track down). Thanks for the reply, btw.

Edited by ep1str0phy

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jw001.jpg

I saw Brotzmann/Parker/Wertmuller at the Vision fest in 2001.

Will never forget Brotz jumping up into the air playing his tenor on the final note.

He was happy and talkative at the end of the gig. Which was rare when I actually used to get the chance to see him regularly.

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Someone here is bound to be in the know (although a lot of internet discographies are in the dark)--anyone have any opinions on the available CD issues of Musica Elettronica Viva material?

yeah, stay away from the BYG ones as mentioned. the Alga Marghen one is OK (Spacecraft/Unified Patchwork Theory), they were supposed to do 10 MEV CDs, but that doesn't seem to be moving along very fast. the best releases to come out on CD so far are the ones on Allan Bryant's IRML label:

http://www.forcedexposure.com/labels/irml.html

we have the first one of these on sale for $7, not sure if I pointed people here to our sale section or not, but it's here:

http://www.erstwhilerecords.com/distro/sale.html

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