Esparanza Spalding beats out Justin Bieber for 'best new artist&#3

[Dave James]

I actually find her too goofy to be attractive -

What's your opinion of Goldie Hawn?

[Christiern]

My review of the 2011 Grammy show is on my blog.

[rachel]

The rules were changed a couple of years ago. An artist now must release at least 1 but not more than 3. There ya go.

[7/4]

personally I would have voted for 7/4.

what are you trying to say kid? spit it out already.

[Larry Kart]

I actually find her too goofy to be attractive -

What's your opinion of Goldie Hawn?

Reportedly, she smells bad, doesn't bathe very often.

[Dave James]

I actually find her too goofy to be attractive -

What's your opinion of Goldie Hawn?

Reportedly, she smells bad, doesn't bathe very often.

Now we're talkin'. Makes me feel like I've retreated to the late 60', the same place where goofiness and pretty women were not mutually exclusive.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Dave James

[Larry Kart]

In today's NY Times, Nate Chinen refers to Spalding as "the precociously gifted, 26-year-old bassist."

Precocious? At Spalding's age, Clifford Brown was dead.

A little perspective please.

[Dan Gould]

In today's NY Times, Nate Chinen refers to Spalding as "the precociously gifted, 26-year-old bassist."

Precocious? At Spalding's age, Clifford Brown was dead.

A little perspective please.

OK, here's one perspective:

There was only one Clifford Brown. I don't know if she's gifted or not but does every (relatively) young new artist have to be compared to the giants? Or can they just be "gifted"?

[Larry Kart]

Yes, gifted -- but not "precociously" so when someone is already 26. Speaking only of bassists, Scott La Faro was dead at age 25, Albert Stinson at 24.

Also, leaving short life-spans aside, look at any list of notable jazz musicians and see how much many of them had accomplished by age 26. Chinen's "precociously" is P.R. talk.

Lee Morgan -- now he was precocious. Bix recorded "Singin' the Blues" when he was 24. Pres recorded "Shoe Shine Boy"/"Lady Be Good" when he was 25. Earl Hines was 25 and Louis Armstrong 27 when they recorded "Weatherbird Rag." Lee Konitz was 21 when he recorded with Miles' Birth of the Cool band; Davis was 22. And on and on.

[JSngry]

Yeah, but that was when playing jazz was something you could do pretty much anytime you wanted to, 24/7/365.

[Mark Stryker]

Yes, gifted -- but not "precociously" so when someone is already 26. Speaking only of bassists, Scott La Faro was dead at age 25, Albert Stinson at 24.

Also, leaving short life-spans aside, look at any list of notable jazz musicians and see how much many of them had accomplished by age 26. Chinen's "precociously" is P.R. talk.

Lee Morgan -- now he was precocious. Bix recorded "Singin' the Blues" when he was 24. Pres recorded "Shoe Shine Boy"/"Lady Be Good" when he was 25. Earl Hines was 25 and Louis Armstrong 27 when they recorded "Weatherbird Rag." Lee Konitz was 21 when he recorded with Miles' Birth of the Cool band; Davis was 22. And on and on.

A jazz musician could be "precocious," "gifted" or "precociously gifted" at 20. But by the time that musician is 26, he/she could still be described as gifted, but given historical precedent, no longer precociously so. Having said that, and leaving final critical evaluations aside, I might be inclined to cut the writer some slack in this instance. He was writing on deadline and "precociously gifted" is the kind of phrase that rolls off the tongue without you really comprehending the full implications or inconsistencies implied. I've certainly been there.

Let's blame the editors along the way for not questioning whether 26 is perhaps too old to be considered precocious as a musical performer in any genre. (Interestingly, painters and novelists could still be considered precocious at that age.)

Edited February 15, 2011 by Mark Stryker

[Larry Kart]

Yeah, but that was when playing jazz was something you could do pretty much anytime you wanted to, 24/7/365.

Nobody stopping you these days unless what you're talking about is wanting to do other things instead. I do know a lot of very good young players who play jazz a whole lot of the time -- and not in a self-consciously "in the tradition" manner.

Now if you're talking about the importance of there being a "scene" of some sort to bounce off of, absolutely -- and these players do have one. Chicago -- that toddlin' town.

[JSngry]

Not just a scene, but a lifestyle, one where you could fall out of bed at any time of the day or night and fall into a session going on somewhere, with or without there being a "gig" attached to it. Living in a world like that made being a legend (and maybe even a dead one) by 25 quite possible.

This world is not that world. Nowadays cats might not even get out of school until they're 22 or 23, and in school often ends up being the most like the days of yore than anything else they'll experience in their life, except, of course, that it is in school.

Now if you're talking about the importance of there being a "scene" of some sort to bounce off of, absolutely -- and these players do have one. Chicago -- that toddlin' town.

Chicago ain't the world. Hell, Chicago ain't even America.

It might be a toddlin' town, but it's a totterin' world elsewhere.

[Larry Kart]

Not just a scene, but a lifestyle, one where you could fall out of bed at any time of the day or night and fall into a session going on somewhere, with or without there being a "gig" attached to it. Living in a world like that made being a legend (and maybe even a dead one) by 25 quite possible.

This world is not that world. Nowadays cats might not even get out of school until they're 22 or 23, and in school often ends up being the most like the days of yore than anything else they'll experience in their life, except, of course, that it is in school.

Now if you're talking about the importance of there being a "scene" of some sort to bounce off of, absolutely -- and these players do have one. Chicago -- that toddlin' town.

Chicago ain't the world. Hell, Chicago ain't even America.

It might be a toddlin' town, but it's a totterin' world elsewhere.

Didn't say Chicago was the world or even America, but it ain't nothing, aesthetically and otherwise, and has been something for about the last fifteen years. As I see it, the reasons for this are perhaps fairly simple in principle but tricky in practice -- DIY presenters who are mostly musicians themselves and who really do "curate" things, fairly and around core, shared-but-broad musical principles (which encourages audiences that have been trained or led by being exposed to what they've already heard to take chances on players and music they don't yet know, which then in many cases becomes music they will seek out); decent places where those presenters can present things without any or any significant interference; all or almost all receipts go right to the players; a city where players can find neighborhoods to live in and where day jobs (if that's your route and/or need) can be found as well. And no doubt many more things -- all of them intertwined, and perhaps more delicately intertwined and balanced than I want to think about.

Aside from the somewhat (though not solely) given quality of the players -- "not solely" because I've seen a good many already good players come here in the last decade or more and become better very rapidly because of who they interact with here and because of the scene's sound communal ethos -- the key factor I think is those DIY presenters, guys like Mike Reed and Josh Berman at The Hungry Brain, Dave Rempis at Elastic, Mitch (I'm blanking on his last name) at The Hideout, Frank Rosaly and Nick Mazarella at The Skylark, Jeff Kimmel at Heaven Gallery, etc., etc. How well they do the often difficult things they do, and how much seemingly ego-free energy they put into doing it when (except for Mitch, who doesn't play I don't think) they're all very active musically themselves, is kind of mind-boggling.

Can any of this be transferred (in any sense) elsewhere? I have no idea. But it has been working for some time.

P.S. About a year-and-half ago, some bigwigs from the Doris Duke Foundation came to town to mount a symposium on how to "save" jazz in Chicago (or some version of that topic). Maybe a hundred or so interested types (some invited by the DDF, others invited by those who already had been invited) gathered at tables at a downtown venue to talk and share (actually, it was more like "share") ideas for many hours, And what turned out to be almost comically force-fed (if not merely faked-up) key conclusion that the DDF people told us we had collectively reached? Chicago needed to build its own version of Jazz at Lincoln Center, a big, modern, centrally located edifice where concerts could be presented. Aiee!!

Further, someone involved told me how much money it cost to put together this (at best) pointless symposium -- I think it was about $400,000. Imagine what could have happened in a single year (in terms of works commissioned, interesting bands/players brought in from elsewhere, special concerts mounted, etc., etc.) if that money instead was put in the hands of the people who already knew what they were doing. But, no -- the goal was to reinvent the wheel; or rather, to pretend that one was interested in wheels when one was really interested in edifices, power, and staff salaries.

[Guest Bill Barton]

I'm somewhat blown away by the fact that many jazz fans seem intent on debating Spalding's merits as an artist instead of congratulating her on something that is a bit of a coup. On the Jazz Programmers List recently more time was spent dissing Bieber's fans for dissing Spalding than in congratulating her. Fickle bunch...

[clifford_thornton]

In today's NY Times, Nate Chinen refers to Spalding as "the precociously gifted, 26-year-old bassist."

Precocious? At Spalding's age, Clifford Brown was dead.

A little perspective please.

I was talking to Alvin Fielder once and mentioned "the young drummer Mike Reed." Alvin's response was something like "he's in his thirties at least, so he's an old guy now!" and proceeded to ask whether there were any real young (under 23) drummers making a splash, and I actually couldn't think of any.

[Jim Alfredson]

Congrats to her. Hopefully this will lead to some more exposure for jazz, though I doubt it.

[JSngry]

Not just a scene, but a lifestyle, one where you could fall out of bed at any time of the day or night and fall into a session going on somewhere, with or without there being a "gig" attached to it. Living in a world like that made being a legend (and maybe even a dead one) by 25 quite possible.

This world is not that world. Nowadays cats might not even get out of school until they're 22 or 23, and in school often ends up being the most like the days of yore than anything else they'll experience in their life, except, of course, that it is in school.

Now if you're talking about the importance of there being a "scene" of some sort to bounce off of, absolutely -- and these players do have one. Chicago -- that toddlin' town.

Chicago ain't the world. Hell, Chicago ain't even America.

It might be a toddlin' town, but it's a totterin' world elsewhere.

Didn't say Chicago was the world or even America, but it ain't nothing, aesthetically and otherwise, and has been something for about the last fifteen years.

What it is is Chicago, the one place where things are (pretty much) what they used to be (after a fashion).

Everywhere else, even/especially what's left of NYC, not nearly so much.

Everywhere else, 26 is still pretty young for a "jazz musician" to have developed a more-or-less "original style" and have gotten enough of a national spotlight to win a Grammy as Best New Artist in the face of PreFab Industry Favorites.

"Precocious", like most adjectives, is relative. I don't know but that it might not be just a tad hype-ish myself, but comparing the relatively recent "now" with the historical "then" to reach some sort of baseline as to what the word is relative doesn't strike me as a particular efficient or accurate methodology of measurement.

[Larry Kart]

In today's NY Times, Nate Chinen refers to Spalding as "the precociously gifted, 26-year-old bassist."

Precocious? At Spalding's age, Clifford Brown was dead.

A little perspective please.

I was talking to Alvin Fielder once and mentioned "the young drummer Mike Reed." Alvin's response was something like "he's in his thirties at least, so he's an old guy now!" and proceeded to ask whether there were any real young (under 23) drummers making a splash, and I actually couldn't think of any.

Yes, Mike is in his mid-30s, but of very worthwhile drummers I know and get to hear a good deal, Marc Riordan (also an excellent pianist) is 29, and Dylan Ryan is 27. Other notable youngish players I'm aware of are altoist Nick Mazzarella (27), trumpeter Jaimie Branch (27) and Brooklyn-based trumpeter Jacob Wick (26).

[JSngry]

I'm somewhat blown away by the fact that many jazz fans seem intent on debating Spalding's merits as an artist instead of congratulating her on something that is a bit of a coup.

She sings. She's young. She's female. She's not afraid to bring recent "pop" flavors into her music. She doesn't appear to be afraid to have people like her who don't "understand" her music. She doesn't appear to fear being popular.

Why should (most of) today's jazz fans congratulate her? She stands for - and does - everything they don't dig.

[JSngry]

Congrats to her. Hopefully this will lead to some more exposure for jazz, though I doubt it.

My wife, an otherwise beautiful spirit and exemplary human being, enjoys watching Extra! every night. Well, last night I decided to watch it with her, just to see the day-after Grammy coverage, just to see if..you know...

"Upset of the night" wasn't ES, it was whoever won the Album Of The Year Award.

Bieber was everywhere, including mugging with the New Artist Trophy. "Can I take it home?", he said to chuckles aplenty and phlashing phlashbulbs.

Esperanza got to say "Hi" & "Thank you" to the Extra! reporter. That was it.

Bieber, otoh, was in there everywhere they could fit him.

Between the fix being in and "jazz fans" (mostly) wanting death warmed over in some form or fashion, I doubt it too.

[Larry Kart]

I'm somewhat blown away by the fact that many jazz fans seem intent on debating Spalding's merits as an artist instead of congratulating her on something that is a bit of a coup. On the Jazz Programmers List recently more time was spent dissing Bieber's fans for dissing Spalding than in congratulating her. Fickle bunch...

Right -- anyone's merits as an artist are beside the point.

[JSngry]

Let's be real here - her "merits as an artist" are such that she would be considered for a Grammy as Best New Artist, meaning that I don't think that she's in any way a "jazz heavyweight in the traditional sense".

I also don't think that she wants to be, or the she needs to be, or that she needs to want to be.

But I do think that she merits consideration as a talent, an artist even, and that her music is far more likely to serve as a "gateway to the harder stuff" far more than either pale imitations of the real harder stuff and/or anything else "jazzy" that's being sold today.

And honestly, I like most of what I've heard by her, precisely because it's not anything/everything that "jazz fans" are all about these days. It's about a young 21st Century woman with some decent enough jazz skills as part of her overall musical palate who sounds like.... a young 21st century woman with some decent enough jazz skills as part of her overall musical palate. There will be more like her to come, I'm sure. Let's hope so.

I've heard plenty of great music made by crippled human beings, but sometimes it's nice to hear good music made by non-crippled human beings. All things considered, I'm ok with that...

[AllenLowe]

I'll go with the cripples

[AllenLowe]

spalding is a solid mediocre by any standard, perfect for an Obama Arts White House, I am sorry to say.

now if you want talent, Janelle Monae should have won