Jazz in Transition: Chambers, Coltrane, et. al.

[Mark Stryker]

I'm trying to determine if the April 20, 1956 sesson from Boston/Cambridge was technically a Paul Chambers date or if it was released as a collective without an individual leader. This online discography lists it under P.C.'s name, but I'm wondering if this is accurate or not. Also wondering if it was literally recorded in Boston or Cambridge. (I've seen it both ways.) Finally, is this date currently available on CD somewhere. Last I saw it was on the Paul Chambers Mosaic Select. Can anybody shed more light?

Paul Chambers Sextet

Curtis Fuller (tb) John Coltrane (ts) Pepper Adams (bars) Roland Alexander (p -2) Paul Chambers (b) Philly Joe Jones (d)

Boston, MA, April 20, 1956

1.High Step

Blue Note BN-LA 451-H2

2.Trane's Strain

Transition TRLP 30; Blue Note BN-LA 451-H2

3.Nixon, Dixon And Yates Blues

Blue Note BN-LA 451-H2

* Blue Note BN-LA 451-H2 Paul Chambers/John Coltrane - High Step

* Transition TRLP 30, (J) GXF 3126 Various Artists - Jazz In Transition

Edited July 15, 2012 by Mark Stryker

[brownie]

The session first turned up (one tune: 'Train's Strain') on the Transition TRLP30 anthology as a leaderless date.

All the three available tunes then appeared in 1975 on the Paul Chambers/John Coltrane 'First Step' BN twofer.

By then 'Train's Strain' was changed to 'Trane's Strain'.

Dan Morgenstern in the liner notes to 'High Step' indicates This session is usually credited to Curtis Fuller but it has also been listed under the leadership of Paul Chambers.

It seems the session has since been listed under PC's name for convenience sake.

[Mark Stryker]

The session first turned up (one tune: 'Train's Strain') on the Transition TRLP30 anthology as a leaderless date.

All the three available tunes then appeared in 1975 on the Paul Chambers/John Coltrane 'First Step' BN twofer.

By then 'Train's Strain' was changed to 'Trane's Strain'.

Dan Morgenstern in the liner notes to 'High Step' indicates This session is usually credited to Curtis Fuller but it has also been listed under the leadership of Paul Chambers.

It seems the session has since been listed under PC's name for convenience sake.

Thanks for this. Michael Weiss sent me some info from this LP set, but it confuses the issue compared to the info included with the Paul Chambers Mosaic Select from a few years ago -- both "High Step" and the Mosaic were both produced by Michael Cuscuna. The LPs give two possible recording dates, including April 20, 1955 (instead of 1956, which is accepted in many more recent discographies and reissues) and the LPs also say the recording location is either Detroit or Boston. I spoke directly with Curtis Fuller about this (the only one still alive from the session, including the original producer)and all Curtis remembers is flying out to Boston and flying right back for the date. He doesn't remember it as "his" date. Very murky.

[Chuck Nessa]

BN also tacked this session onto this cd:

This 1989 issue gives April 20, 1955 as the date.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Chuck Nessa

[Dan Gould]

That's how I got it.

[Stonewall15]

The Transition discography that I have shows the recording date for TRLP-8 as 20 April 1955. TRLP-8 was never released but Train's Strain was released on TRLP-30 and the other 2 songs in the Paul Chambers Mosaic set. I do not know if the 2 songs, High Step and Nixon, Dixon and Yates Blues, were part of TRLP-8 but I suspect so. The discograpy shows TRLP-8 as a Pepper Adams session titled "Quintet Introducing Curtis Fuller". I would sure like to know the whole story on TRLP-8 as I am a long-time Transition collector.

There is another unissued Transition session- TRLP-18 by Jay Migliori, titled "Jazz Down Beat" recorded 7 Nov 1955. One song (I think) is on TRLP-30- Something's Gotta Give. I would also like to have more info on this session- was it ever issued under Migliori's name or what?

Another question- TRLP-12 titled "These Things By Dave Coleman" was supposedly recorded and then erased. One song, Backstreet (under the names of Dick Wetmore and Tommy Ball), in on TRLP-30 and may be from this session. Are any more of the Coleman songs issued somewhere else? Also- who is Dave Coleman? All I know from the TRLP-30 notes is that he is a composer- Google lists many Dave Colemans.

TRLP-11, possibly is Charles Mingus at Newport, 17 July 1955- a Voice Of America radio broadcast- never issued. Tapes supposedly are in the Library of Congress. Again- any info on this item?

TRLP-30 provides tantalizing clues to the above questions. The ultra-rare Japanese-issued CD of TRLP-30 (TOCJ-5889) includes an-unissued Tiny's Blues from the TRLP-1 LP session, as does the Fresh Sound CD (FSR-CD530) of TRLP-1 Herb Pomeroy and His Stablemates (Jazz In A Stable).

Any help from you Transition experts out there will be highly appreciated. Dan.

[Fer Urbina]

According to The John Coltrane Reference,

Curtis Fuller told Michael Cuscuna that this session was to have featured Fuller and Pepper Adams (with a tentative title of Salt and Pepper) ... Jepsen's Jazz Records 1942-1962... contains the entry "Curtis Fuller-Pepper Adams: 1956/1957, Transition LP8" with no titles (this LP was never released).

As for the date of recording,

The earlier date [April 20, 1955] was based on information producer Michael Cuscuna found on the original tape boxes, which were dated "April 20" with no year listed; however, April 1956 is far more likely than April 1955 (five months before Coltrane joined Miles Davis). Pepper Adams said that the session was recorded November 1955 in Boston... Either date, November 1955 or April 1956, is possible (or there may even have been sessions on both dates).

F

[Mark Stryker]

According to The John Coltrane Reference,

Curtis Fuller told Michael Cuscuna that this session was to have featured Fuller and Pepper Adams (with a tentative title of Salt and Pepper) ... Jepsen's Jazz Records 1942-1962... contains the entry "Curtis Fuller-Pepper Adams: 1956/1957, Transition LP8" with no titles (this LP was never released).

As for the date of recording,

The earlier date [April 20, 1955] was based on information producer Michael Cuscuna found on the original tape boxes, which were dated "April 20" with no year listed; however, April 1956 is far more likely than April 1955 (five months before Coltrane joined Miles Davis). Pepper Adams said that the session was recorded November 1955 in Boston... Either date, November 1955 or April 1956, is possible (or there may even have been sessions on both dates).

F

thanks much for this. getting a little closer i think. i emailed Cuscuna for any clarification he might be able to bring at this point and i'll go back to Curtis one more time to see if some of this context jogs his memory a bit more.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Mark Stryker

[John L]

It makes sense that it could have been Curtis Fuller or Pepper Adams' date, as Coltrane and Chambers were not nearly as well known at the time.

[Mark Stryker]

It makes sense that it could have been Curtis Fuller or Pepper Adams' date, as Coltrane and Chambers were not nearly as well known at the time.

Disagree. Curtis was not known at all at that point beyond Detroit. Assuming the 1956 date is correct, Pepper didn't have a national reputation yet either, since he didn't join Kenton until right after that session and hadn't made an impact on record yet either. Meanwhile, P.C had been in New York for at least a year and he and Trane were with Miles.

Cuscuna tells me he doesn't have any more info on this (other than what's been repeated above), as he "hit a wall" on this particular issue years ago.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Mark Stryker

[John L]

It makes sense that it could have been Curtis Fuller or Pepper Adams' date, as Coltrane and Chambers were not nearly as well known at the time.

Disagree. Curtis was not known at all at that point beyond Detroit. Assuming the 1956 date is correct, Pepper didn't have a national reputation yet either, since he didn't join Kenton until right after that session and hadn't made an impact on record yet either. Meanwhile, P.C had been in New York for at least a year and he and Trane were with Miles.

Cuscuna tells me has not more info on this (other than what's been repeated above), as he "hit a wall" on this particular issue years ago.

Thanks. My bad. I don't know why I was thinking that Fuller and Adams had already established their reputations in the mid-50s.

[Mark Stryker]

It makes sense that it could have been Curtis Fuller or Pepper Adams' date, as Coltrane and Chambers were not nearly as well known at the time.

Disagree. Curtis was not known at all at that point beyond Detroit. Assuming the 1956 date is correct, Pepper didn't have a national reputation yet either, since he didn't join Kenton until right after that session and hadn't made an impact on record yet either. Meanwhile, P.C had been in New York for at least a year and he and Trane were with Miles.

Cuscuna tells me has not more info on this (other than what's been repeated above), as he "hit a wall" on this particular issue years ago.

Thanks. My bad. I don't know why I was thinking that Fuller and Adams had already established their reputations in the mid-50s.

No worries. The minutia here can drive you crazy ...

[JSngry]

Possible scenario? Pepper's get the Kenton gig lined up ready to go, Tom Wilson figures get a session in the can now, release it once the name's out there?

When facts are absent, make something up!

[Gheorghe]

Well, to me it´s Paul Chamber´s date, may it be correct or no. It´s just how I grew up with that album. Certainly I had that BN 2-LP set "High Steps" when I was a teenager.

But later it set me up that there is only a part of the whole "Whims of Chambers" session. So I got the CD "Whims of Chambers" and the CD "A Jazz Delegation from the East", to have the whole music.

When I started to collect music, BN was in a rough state. Most part of the cataloge was OOP, that really set me up. The only way for a youngster like me to get into the word of BN was purchasing those not very attractive 2-LP samplers. They also had artists who never recorded for BN, like the 2-LP set of Wes Montgomery. Well, that´s how it was.

[Stonewall15]

The Transition discography that I have shows the recording date for TRLP-8 as 20 April 1955. TRLP-8 was never released but Train's Strain was released on TRLP-30 and the other 2 songs in the Paul Chambers Mosaic set. I do not know if the 2 songs, High Step and Nixon, Dixon and Yates Blues, were part of TRLP-8 but I suspect so. The discograpy shows TRLP-8 as a Pepper Adams session titled "Quintet Introducing Curtis Fuller". I would sure like to know the whole story on TRLP-8 as I am a long-time Transition collector.

There is another unissued Transition session- TRLP-18 by Jay Migliori, titled "Jazz Down Beat" recorded 7 Nov 1955. One song (I think) is on TRLP-30- Something's Gotta Give. I would also like to have more info on this session- was it ever issued under Migliori's name or what?

Another question- TRLP-12 titled "These Things By Dave Coleman" was supposedly recorded and then erased. One song, Backstreet (under the names of Dick Wetmore and Tommy Ball), in on TRLP-30 and may be from this session. Are any more of the Coleman songs issued somewhere else? Also- who is Dave Coleman? All I know from the TRLP-30 notes is that he is a composer- Google lists many Dave Colemans.

TRLP-11, possibly is Charles Mingus at Newport, 17 July 1955- a Voice Of America radio broadcast- never issued. Tapes supposedly are in the Library of Congress. Again- any info on this item?

TRLP-30 provides tantalizing clues to the above questions. The ultra-rare Japanese-issued CD of TRLP-30 (TOCJ-5889) includes an-unissued Tiny's Blues from the TRLP-1 LP session, as does the Fresh Sound CD (FSR-CD530) of TRLP-1 Herb Pomeroy and His Stablemates (Jazz In A Stable).

Any help from you Transition experts out there will be highly appreciated. Dan.

Anything new on this Transition Records issue?

[mjzee]

According to the Cuscuna/Ruppli BN discography (2001 edition), it lists the date as April 20, 1956, and states "Note: This session was first intended to be released as by Curtis Fuller & Pepper Adams."

[medjuck]

The Pepper Adams discography "Joy Road" quotes Adams as saying it was '56 and all of Miles's group except Miles was supposed to support Adams and Fuller but Red Garland didn't show up. Adams remembers it as after he moved to NY in January '56. The Miles quintet was in Boston at Storyville.

Edited June 7, 2014 by medjuck

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

my favorite is Watkins at Large

[Stonewall15]

Still looking for TRLP-8 and TRLP-18.