Question re Dusty Groove

[mjzee]

If Dusty Groove rates a used LP's condition as very good, is it...well...very good?

[Chuck Nessa]

YMMV, but they are honest folks. I have no idea of your version of VG.

[clifford_thornton]

Ostensibly by Goldmine standards their VG is accurate, but if it was my money I'd wait around for a NM or VG++ copy. Unless we're talking flat edge Blue Notes or other 'collector' items, the price point variance is likely not wide enough not to spend an extra few bucks on something nice.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I once bought a VG record from them and it had a very long and visible scratch across one whole side that resulted in audible clicks throughout the playback. When I asked them about it, they gave me the old "Goldmine grading system says that's VG" line. Well that being the case, I will no longer buy anything VG from them again. Stick to VG++ and NM.

[mjzee]

Good to know.  The 3 titles I was considering are all "VG."  Thanks to all.

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, a click through one side would be a VG– at best so that is pushing it. Their NM- is generally okay but everyone makes mistakes. I almost never buy (knowingly) anything less than NM- condition from anyone. 

What were the titles? Maybe I have and can part with them.

[mjzee]

I have no real urgency to buy them; they were at a good price and seemed interesting:

Hank Jones - Arigato (Progressive), $2.99

Randy Weston w/ Billy Harper (Arista Freedom) - Carnival, $2.99

Hank Jones - Just For Fun (Galaxy), $1.99

[clifford_thornton]

Don't have those but if I did I'd just give them to you 

Will keep an eye out; NM- copies shouldn't be too hard to come by. I've seen the Weston numerous times.

[JSngry]

The older the record is, the more you're gonna want to consider the presence or absence of that "+".

What I find on their older records is that a simple "VG" usually ends up being noisy but playable, like if I got the same record at a thrift shop, I'd be pleased.

an older record from them that is "VG+" is gonna be less noisy, but still noisy, and definitely playable. If i got the same record at a thrift shop, I'd feel like I had scored.

What it comes down to me is what your needs are for any given record at any given price point. If you want a kinda hard to find record just to have a play copy, you know, put it on to play while you work around the house or in your garage or whatever, then VG will get you what you want, and usually for a good enough price. If you want something exclusively for "critical listening" and don't have the chops to deal with a lot of noise while doing critical listening, then, no, VG will not get it for you, and VG+ might pose challenges.

The one thing I've noticed about Dusty Groove & vinyl is that the older the record, the more generous the grading relative to price, so a 1962 VG+ for $7.99 and a 1982 VG+ for $7.99 are not going to give the same results. The older record will usually be noisier in terms of continuous surface noise, whereas the newer record will tend to be more poppy/clicky but relative to a much quieter surface noise. But the older record for $7.99 might still be a deal for that price, whereas the newer record...not so much.

If you don't mind learning the game through trail and error, it gets pretty easy to know what to expect through a formula of age, rarity, condition, and price. That's just how they do it, and you can get some deals great deals there relative to other places once you have realistic expectations. And you can avoid some pissed off disappointments as well.

[JSngry]

I have no real urgency to buy them; they were at a good price and seemed interesting:

Hank Jones - Arigato (Progressive), $2.99

Randy Weston w/ Billy Harper (Arista Freedom) - Carnival, $2.99

Hank Jones - Just For Fun (Galaxy), $1.99

Those are all good enough prices for records which will most likely have a normal or greater number of pops and clicks that come from average playings and handling of their time by average peoples of, but for a few bucks more, better condition copies should be findable enough.

However, if it we me, I'd jump on that Weston/Harper ASAP and then set a task to get a better copy when one comes along...that's a very, very strong record, and unless you're totally anal about "vinyl artifacts" (and some people are, so no judgement implied) or unless the record is TOTALLY trashed, it shouldn't be too much of a problem hearing through the noise. The music is that powerful.

[mjzee]

Kinda figured you'd like the Weston, Jim; I know what a Billy Harper fan you are.  

Thanks for the input.  I'm guessing that DG rates discs based on a visual assessment; they can't be expected to play every one for pops and clicks.

[JSngry]

When I'm in a spending phase, I buy vinyl from DG weekly, sometimes bi-weekly. I've been doing that long enough to pretty much know in advance what I'm getting. since i'm the type of guy who will listen to almost anything except a totally trashed record, I've found them a good alternative to going out in the heat (or the cold) and finding (or not finding) gaps in the collection (and often enough, opportunities to make new spaces for there to be new gaps in the collection)  for prices that are generally equal to what the local used outlets offer, and, honestly, sometimes better, because the local guys tend to value rarity at expense of grading.DG seems like they balance it out more equally.

And here's a tip - if you ever visit them in person, or, like I've done it, have somebody vistit them in person with whom you can Skype), hit the basement. They got stuff for, like, 50 cents or a buck a pop, and none of it is listed online. Most of it is garbage, but not all. I had my daughter pull me an old OG Gerald Wilson PJ that had that steady hiss type surface noise, but at not a too high level, and the LP must've been mastered hell-hot, because the music POPPED out of the speakers, really LIVE sounding. For a buck, hey, not a bad deal.

As for the Weston/Harper...yes, I'm a big Billy fan, but even at that...that's a special record. One of Weston's very best, imo.

[clifford_thornton]

Oh yeah, they are constantly hoovering up huge collections so yeah, visual assessment almost exclusively, or an occasional spot check.

They used to cater more to beat diggers (who just wanted a clean-sounding break) and jazz heads. It also used to be harder to find stuff, at least with the online marketplace, so you weren't sure if you were going to see some private pressed Chicago jazz side again in the near future. Now, the market is wide open and even with rare titles, one usually encounters one or two a year.

[JSngry]

I'd ave gone through life not knowing who Tommy Jones was if not for Dusty Groove.

[clifford_thornton]

I feel that way about this board.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

The problem I had with the record I bought was that it was ~$25 for a Liberty-pressed Blue Note of a Jimmy Smith date. At that price point with their VG grade, I expected better. Now that I know what "VG" really means to them, I will avoid buying those records.

[HutchFan]

When I'm in a spending phase, I buy vinyl from DG weekly, sometimes bi-weekly. I've been doing that long enough to pretty much know in advance what I'm getting. since i'm the type of guy who will listen to almost anything except a totally trashed record, I've found them a good alternative to going out in the heat (or the cold) and finding (or not finding) gaps in the collection (and often enough, opportunities to make new spaces for there to be new gaps in the collection)  for prices that are generally equal to what the local used outlets offer, and, honestly, sometimes better, because the local guys tend to value rarity at expense of grading.DG seems like they balance it out more equally.

And here's a tip - if you ever visit them in person, or, like I've done it, have somebody vistit them in person with whom you can Skype), hit the basement. They got stuff for, like, 50 cents or a buck a pop, and none of it is listed online. Most of it is garbage, but not all. I had my daughter pull me an old OG Gerald Wilson PJ that had that steady hiss type surface noise, but at not a too high level, and the LP must've been mastered hell-hot, because the music POPPED out of the speakers, really LIVE sounding. For a buck, hey, not a bad deal.

As for the Weston/Harper...yes, I'm a big Billy fan, but even at that...that's a special record. One of Weston's very best, imo.

I wholeheartedly agree re: Carnival.  "The Mystery of Love"!!! And that tribute to Duke!!!

Edited July 15, 2015 by HutchFan

[mjzee]

Anyway, I bit.  Also ordered the Hank Jones "Just For Fun" (the other was already sold), and two Heath Bros.: "In Motion" and "Expressions Of Life."

[JSngry]

The problem I had with the record I bought was that it was ~$25 for a Liberty-pressed Blue Note of a Jimmy Smith date. At that price point with their VG grade, I expected better. Now that I know what "VG" really means to them, I will avoid buying those records.

If you were to knowing buy that record in that condition, what price would you think about right? I'd go no more than $15, and would really push for $10 if the noise was that audible for that long. $25 would definitely have me grrrrrrrr-ing.

Then again, people go batshit over Blue Note, so somebody would probably pay $25 for it and get all fetish happy. I am SO not the guy to gauge "current market value", I'm just a hey, I'd like this at this price if it's in this condition type guy, not too much more to it than that for me.

Anyway, I bit.  Also ordered the Hank Jones "Just For Fun" (the other was already sold), and two Heath Bros.: "In Motion" and "Expressions Of Life."

If worse comes to worse, you can always use the cheater-dealer's trick of cranking the treble down during playback.

Tip for the kids - whenever you can get an in-store playtest of an item, ALWAYS ask to have the treble pushed all the way up, and visually confirm that it's been done. You'll probably not listen to it like that at home, but you'll also hear whatever noise is on the record before you get it home. Best of all - you can often get some serious leverage where before there was none!

[clifford_thornton]

Depending on the date and the definition of "Liberty-pressed" (it can mean a few different things to BN collectors), $25 could be about right for a NM- copy of a JOS record, much less one in VG shape.

[felser]

When I'm in a spending phase, I buy vinyl from DG weekly, sometimes bi-weekly. I've been doing that long enough to pretty much know in advance what I'm getting. since i'm the type of guy who will listen to almost anything except a totally trashed record, I've found them a good alternative to going out in the heat (or the cold) and finding (or not finding) gaps in the collection (and often enough, opportunities to make new spaces for there to be new gaps in the collection)  for prices that are generally equal to what the local used outlets offer, and, honestly, sometimes better, because the local guys tend to value rarity at expense of grading.DG seems like they balance it out more equally.

And here's a tip - if you ever visit them in person, or, like I've done it, have somebody vistit them in person with whom you can Skype), hit the basement. They got stuff for, like, 50 cents or a buck a pop, and none of it is listed online. Most of it is garbage, but not all. I had my daughter pull me an old OG Gerald Wilson PJ that had that steady hiss type surface noise, but at not a too high level, and the LP must've been mastered hell-hot, because the music POPPED out of the speakers, really LIVE sounding. For a buck, hey, not a bad deal.

As for the Weston/Harper...yes, I'm a big Billy fan, but even at that...that's a special record. One of Weston's very best, imo.

I wholeheartedly agree re: Carnival.  "The Mystery of Love"!!! And that tribute to Duke!!!

Yeah, that record was my introduction to Weston (I had instantly become a lifelong Harper fanatic from "Capra Black" on that Lee Morgan album, one of my very early jazz purchases), and "Mystery of Love" was a mind-altering experience I've never forgotten.

[Teasing the Korean]

I once bought a VG record from them and it had a very long and visible scratch across one whole side that resulted in audible clicks throughout the playback. When I asked them about it, they gave me the old "Goldmine grading system says that's VG" line. Well that being the case, I will no longer buy anything VG from them again. Stick to VG++ and NM.

I don't doubt you, but that is very surprising.  I have bought VG albums from DG that I thought were graded very conservatively.  

I have also sold lots of LPs to them over the years and likewise graded conservatively.  

[Dan Gould]

Regarding the original question, at the prices listed I'd always pull the trigger if I wanted to hear the music - but part of that is the fact that I dump all LPs into the computer and manually de-pop and burn CDs.  If you're willing to do the work you can get some very nice results, and there is a depop program I occasionally use with hardly any effect to the sound, if a record has  so much damage I just can't take the time to de-click by hand.

This conversation got me thinking about the bastards(tm) and last night I found some blues LPs I am trying to snag.  One that I didn't pull the trigger on does have a listing indicating that they will do play-testing on occasion:

https://www.dustygroove.com/item/760985

(Gold label pressing. Vinyl is nice and clean, but has a mark that clicks on two tracks. Looks bad on the others, but doesn't click.)

(Actually as I re-read that, how is the vinyl nice and clean yet "looks bad on the others but doesn't click"?   )

[clifford_thornton]

Probably has one long mark that clicks on two of five tracks. Or, scattered light marks but no groove wear.

That's a good record; mine has a pink and black cover, and there's a red-and-green one (shades of Song For) that is pretty sick looking.

[mjazzg]

I'm pleased to read these largely positive comments about DG and vinyl as I've just bought vinyl from them for the first time. The clincher for me was their int'l postage rates which are lower compared to everyone else stateside to the extent that they charge less for LP postage than others do to post a CD. How can that be?