Don Preston

[medjuck]

I was perusing a Steve Lopez  column  in the LA Times about people who can no longer afford to live in LA when I realized that I was reading about Don Preston! 

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-lopez-preston-housing-20170930-story.html

I should be used to it by now but I keep being shocked by learning  how people whom I think of as major musicians  end up in poverty. 

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by medjuck

[mjzee]

Thanks for posting that.  Sobering.

[Scott Dolan]

Sobering, indeed. 

King Kong...

Brilliant keyboardist. 

[Chuck Nessa]

Some jazz instincts exhibited here:

[JSngry]

3 hours ago, medjuck said:

I should be used to it by now but I keep being shocked by learning  how people whom I think of as major musicians  end up in poverty.

Sometimes people are stupid, sometimes they're just naive, sometimes they really do get stabbed in the back, but always - always - somebody ends up with that money. Money is a game - a serious game, but a game nonetheless - and very few people know the rules soon enough to have a really solid game. Say what you want to about Miles and all of his career choices, he knew the rules of the money game. His estate, say what you will about their choices, but they do not seem to be losing at the money game. This is important.

Kinda shocked that Don Preston is 85, though. Not because he shouldn't be, but just because...it doesn't seem 48 years since 1969, when I first heard the Mothers Of Invention. That's damn near half a century.

But an 85 year old person who continues to contribute to society should not have to worry about having a place to live. That's just wrong. Fame and fortune, that's some more games, but the basic security and peace of mind that comes from knowing you have a place to live in a world in which you still contribute...basic human decency, imo.

[Chuck Nessa]

What he said.

[medjuck]

Do you guys mean they were paid enough and worked enough in heir prime but just didn't manage money well?  (I'm not arguing-- I don't know.) IIRC Dicky Wells quite the Basie band to go work in the post office where he'd have a steady income. 

[Scott Dolan]

I can only speak for myself, but no, I'm not saying that at all. 

I have no idea how he, or anyone else, ends up in that situation. The possible reasons are endless. 

I'm only saying that it's sobering to realize such a talented and respected musician could end up there. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by Scott Dolan

[Larry Kart]

Ran into Preston circa 1969 when I was doing an interview with Zappa and the Mothers, among the first I'd ever done at Down Beat. Zappa couldn't have been a bigger dick -- utterly unresponsive/fluffing me off, and finally he just walked away after a few minutes.  Maybe I wasn't, in my relative callowness, an interviewer in the Orriana Fallaci  class, but Zappa was just getting off on being a ass----. This was by the side of a outdoor pool at a suburban Chicago hotel, where the band was staying before playing at Ravinia Park that night. Preston, who was sitting nearby, saw what happened and after Zappa left, he proceeded to gather much of the rest of the band, who had been lounging by the pool, to talk to me. Got all the stuff I needed from them and from the concert that night. IIRC, Preston was very shrewd and bright. Also, it was fairly clear that he and the rest of the band regarded Zappa with no fondness whatsoever. 

[medjuck]

2 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

I can only speak for myself, but no, I'm not saying that at all. 

I have no idea how he, or anyone else, ends up in that situation. The possible reasons are endless. 

I'm only saying that it's sobering to realize such a talented and respected musician could end up there. 

I probably should have made it clear I was asking Jim and Chuck. 

2 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

Ran into Preston circa 1969 when I was doing an interview with Zappa and the Mothers, among the first I'd ever done at Down Beat. Zappa couldn't have been a bigger dick -- utterly unresponsive/fluffing me off, and finally he just walked away after a few minutes.  Maybe I wasn't, in my relative callowness, an interviewer in the Orriana Fallaci  class, but Zappa was just getting off on being a ass----. This was by the side of a outdoor pool at a suburban Chicago hotel, where the band was staying before playing at Ravinia Park that night. Preston, who was sitting nearby, saw what happened and after Zappa left, he proceeded to gather much of the rest of the band, who had been lounging by the pool, to talk to me. Got all the stuff I needed from them and from the concert that night. IIRC, Preston was very shrewd and bright. Also, it was fairly clear that he and the rest of the band regarded Zappa with no fondness whatsoever. 

I got a pretty good interview with Zappa once but was a little shocked (even then) about the way he talked about women.  It was backstage  at The Rockpile in Toronto and all The Mothers as well as Blood Sweat and Tears were there.  Had a pretty good discussion with all of them about music and they told us about a band  they'd all heard in Chicago called CTA and how many horns they'd have if all three bands played together.  

[Chuck Nessa]

I was reacting to Jim's last paragraph.

[mjzee]

2 hours ago, medjuck said:

I got a pretty good interview with Zappa once but was a little shocked (even then) about the way he talked about women.  It was backstage  at The Rockpile in Toronto and all The Mothers as well as Blood Sweat and Tears were there.  Had a pretty good discussion with all of them about music and they told us about a band  they'd all heard in Chicago called CTA and how many horns they'd have if all three bands played together.  

CTA (Chicago Transit Authority, later just Chicago) opened for the Mothers at the Fillmore East one weekend.  My brother saw them and liked them so much he bought their first album; this was before any of their singles became big.

4 hours ago, medjuck said:

Do you guys mean they were paid enough and worked enough in heir prime but just didn't manage money well?  (I'm not arguing-- I don't know.) IIRC Dicky Wells quite the Basie band to go work in the post office where he'd have a steady income. 

 

[uli]

4 hours ago, JSngry said:

 

 when I first heard the Mothers Of Invention. That's damn near half a century.

 

as the artcle sez, they are noe the grandmothers of invention and preston plays the bebot

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by uli

[mjzee]

Thanks for posting that; very enjoyable.  Who is the guitarist?  Tom Fowler on bass?  Couldn't see the drummer.

Update: As revealed at the end, it was indeed Tom Fowler.

Edited October 5, 2017 by mjzee

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

insane

THE FZ TRUST SHOULD GIVE HIM $$$$, BUT THEY WONT

[Scott Dolan]

11 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

Ran into Preston circa 1969 when I was doing an interview with Zappa and the Mothers, among the first I'd ever done at Down Beat. Zappa couldn't have been a bigger dick -- utterly unresponsive/fluffing me off, and finally he just walked away after a few minutes.  Maybe I wasn't, in my relative callowness, an interviewer in the Orriana Fallaci  class, but Zappa was just getting off on being a ass----. This was by the side of a outdoor pool at a suburban Chicago hotel, where the band was staying before playing at Ravinia Park that night. Preston, who was sitting nearby, saw what happened and after Zappa left, he proceeded to gather much of the rest of the band, who had been lounging by the pool, to talk to me. Got all the stuff I needed from them and from the concert that night. IIRC, Preston was very shrewd and bright. Also, it was fairly clear that he and the rest of the band regarded Zappa with no fondness whatsoever. 

From everything I've gathered, that's why that original Mothers lineup did not last very long. Seems as though Frank may have at least learned something from that experienced, as most of the musicians he employed after that spoke quite highly of him. 

[Gheorghe]

I´ve stayed in the same place for a very long time so can´t even imagine how difficult and painful it must be for an 85 years old to move to another place.

I love changes in jazz movement, but hate any changes in personal live, places to live, so I really feel sorry for that man whom I don´t know, which is my fault cause I really don´t know much about other music than so called jazz. The only "Prestons" I got acquainted with where one Eddie Preston on trumpet, on some Mingus stuff from early 1970, but not very profilic, and .....indirectly as the title of a tune "Billy Preston" on some Miles Davis album from the early 70´s. This latter one I think did other stuff than jazz, so I know about his name mainly from the title on the Miles album (Get Up with It maybe?).

Edited October 5, 2017 by Gheorghe

[mikeweil]

Money may be a game to many, but its consequences are way too serious for many people to let the game go on like this. We are going to face the same sittuation over here, actually many people already are. A percussionist colleague of mine in Munich just lost her loft where she lived and taught and practised, and it will ruin her existence if she doesn't find another place. I switched to a day job as music will not yield enough income, especially for a character like me who hates to compromise. Everything "culture" that costs more than it earns is considered a luxury or taken for granted by most. 

A game is fine as long as you have the choice to participate or not, but if a whole world is subjected to that game, where is your choice? Live or die? Welfare, charity? (Sorry for the political overtone of this post, but music and its circumstances are political just as everything in the world.)

Edited October 5, 2017 by mikeweil

[AllenLowe]

my sense is that Zappa did not treat that early band (which was my fave; saw them live in 1968) well, especially financially.  And just when they were starting to have success, he let them go.

[JSngry]

15 hours ago, medjuck said:

Do you guys mean they were paid enough and worked enough in heir prime but just didn't manage money well?  (I'm not arguing-- I don't know.) IIRC Dicky Wells quite the Basie band to go work in the post office where he'd have a steady income. 

I just mean that money is power, and that power concedes nothing without a struggle. That struggle can take the form of negotiating for better pay as a band or as a sideman, better contract terms, better personal management, better personal discipline, better acceptance of the moral ambiguity that comes with reaping the fuller monetary rewards of capitalism...very few people have money to begin with, even fewer get it without some kind of work/struggle, and even fewer people get to hold on to it with the passage of time, because the cliché that you have to spend money to make money, is just....fraught with all kinds of peril!

As for Zappa, he always had good representation, and if the early Mothers lost money, I don't know how much of his money he actually lost. Some, I'm sure, maybe a lot, but otoh, credit, backers, investors, etc. Part of the game. For a nearly-eternal sideman like Don Preston, it's not unlike being a replaceable Cubicle Cog. You are valued while you are there, but you can always be replaced, especially if and when the company "pivots", so your "value" is never going to be what you think it should be.. How much money he made on all these gigs, I don't know. Some paid more than others, no doubt.

The fact that Don Preston is 85, still working, and still (barely) able to pay rent is a testament to his personal tenacity. The fact that him and his wife were almost able to buy a house tells me that he knew and still knows what the deal about this is. The fact that it didn't happen is sad, and not all chances like that for people like this come around regularly. Owning property is a real source of at least some power, and it is not power that ahs always been anywhere near commonly available.

So...what it means is that for every p[person, there's a story. Ian Underwood went into studio work, and as far as I can tell, is not scuffling like Don Preston. But Don Preston worked with John Carter for years, so high reward, low return, something like that. Jimmy Carl Balck ended up like Jimmy Carl Black because...well, because he was Jimmy Carl Black.

All I know for sure is that there's no such thing as "lost money"  except in the abstract (and that is where the real game gets played...you only have "real money" once you cash some of it out...until then you have credit and leverage, and all that, the ability to move that abstract money around in a transactional manner...but then again, that's "real" too, so...whatever).  Point just being, if a bandleader gets ripped off, if a sideman gets underpaid, hell, if a promoted books a hall and doesn't recoup, somebody gets that money that those parties didn't get. That's why contracts are signed, retainers paid, deposits required, unions formed, etc. out of recognition that there will be money, and this is how it will be distributed.

And STILL people get screwed!

Now, L.A. real estate, that's another story, and no, I don't know too much about that, other than California in general, before the "Great Recession" (and boy, it was great, wasn't it!!!!), people would sell, like, 1000 Sq.Ft  crackerboxes for "millions", come out here and buy suburban mansions, and then fret because the upkeep was so high. DUH!

The lack of affordable housing for seniors and the working poor is not political, and it's not financial - it's moral. It's a consequence of what we as a society find morally acceptable. I we agree that it's morally acceptable to conduct consensual real-estate transactions between capable parties, but not to ensure that contributing member of society have sensible housing at their disposal, those are two collective and distinctive moral choices, and I for one do not see the conflict between the two.

[Scott Dolan]

Didn't Ian Underwood compose the soundtrack for Braveheart? 

[JSngry]

James Horner, per IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112573/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

maybe he got some orchestration credits or something? I don't know.

 

Ah, further down the expanded page:

Ian Underwood

...

instrumental soloist: synth programming, London Symphony Orchestra.

Yeah, Ian should be doing ok, barring anything bad: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0881005/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr343

[medjuck]

IIRC Ian Underwood was on many of the film scoring sessions I attended.  I have a vague recollection that Don Preston was on some also but I may be confusing the two. 

[Scott Dolan]

Ah, I see Underwood was also involved with the Titanic and Avatar soundtracks. 

I'd assume behemoth projects like this tend to pay very well. 

[JSngry]

If they're union gigs (and I would assume they are), remuneration would be both proper and timely. And first-call people can "demand" more than union scale. Supply/demand/Available budget (and I've never yet to see a project that had an already large-ish budget that couldn't manage to find a few buck more for this and that...sure, there will be bitching and moaning, but there will also be a few extra bucks available if they REALLY want something).

But keep it in perspective - what guys like Underwood get, people who serve in secondary or lower roles, is but a fraction of the overall budget. The budgets are huge in these things because, well, look at the credits, look at all the people who do work on these things. I'd imagine there are more that don't get shown in the credits. So something like "special programing" or "instrumental soloist", yeah, that's going to pay good, sometimes REAL good, but...that income alone is not going to get you rich. Maybe buy a house and live decently, yes. But the piece of the overall pie that its is really not significant. Not that it should be, but do know that "working a lot" and/or "working a lot of lucrative gigs" is in no way a guarantee or predictor of lasting financial security, especially if somebody takes that income and tries to grow it through investments of whatever nature. And a cat like Ian Underwood, he may or may not get equipment gifted to him by leading companies for testing/promotional use, but most people don't.

Just saying, like it or not, money is a game, and if getting it is hard enough, keeping it is that much more difficult, and growing it is, as they say, a "risk". There is risk involved, they tell you that right up front, so don't say you weren't warned. If you strongly believe in truth and beauty and commit your life to the pursuance of same, you can see where there might be, uh.... a conflict or three along the way.