Michael Fitzgerald

Sifting through stuff, I came across a copy of Abundant Sounds, a tiny (4 folded letter-sized sheets) publication. I imagine that not many people have seen this interview. The interview would have taken place in early May 1964. It was during this Five Spot engagement that Sonny had Grachan Moncur sit in with the group. I believe the Show Boat gig that is mentioned is from August 1963, before the Japanese tour in September. Enjoy. Mike ----------------------------------------------------------- Sonny Rollins Interview [Originally published in Abundant Sounds, vol. 2, no. 3 (July 1964)] Tapeing The Artists (With Abundant Sounds) Sonny Rollins was kind enough to spend quite a bit of time with Abundant Sounds publisher Fred Miles and New York Representative Jean French during his Five Spot engagement. Fred and Jean had our Uher #4000 Report battery tape recorder along and the highlights of their conversation with Sonny follow. FM: I enjoyed hearing you not long ago at the Show Boat. This is a different group, I notice. SONNY: Yes, slightly different and much more, I hope, by the time we go back to Philadelphia. We are trying to introduce another element into the music. FM: I understand you have been to Japan for a while. Maybe you could tell us a little about it? SONNY: Very nice trip. It's a wonderful place. The people are very nice. We had to buy a trunk to bring back all the gifts we had and they liked the music. I stayed over there a little while to study Japanese music and got a little bit of an insight into the ancient classical Japanese music and into Eastern music in general. These bells, of course, are from India. We did not go there this time but I hope to go to India next time. FM: You said something about having something new when you come to Philadelphia once again. Tell us a little bit about that. SONNY: Oh yes. It might be difficult to do it at the Show Boat as we are planning to use an element of drama. We would have to use some kind of a stage to have it done correctly. We can do it here but at the Show Boat it's not as flexible. FM: It's all around you with the people and the circular bar. SONNY: Yes, and the stage is elevated so that we can't come off. JEAN: Have you done any further thinking on the plans that you had a while back on dancers and vocalists? SONNY: Are you a dancer, Jean? JEAN: No, I'm not. SONNY: Just wondered. Yes, well, we would like to use them also. But for that we would have to have a more elaborate place to do it. Whereas most of the clubs, with the exception of the Show Boat, can accommodate what we have now. We do plan to use dancers at special presentations. It's nothing new. We are not trying to say that we are doing something new. FM: Music and dance have certainly gone together for many years. SONNY: Ah, very much so. There is no reason why we cannot have jazz and drama or jazz and dance. JEAN: There is something else that I would like to ask you about and that is your hairdo. There are quite a few people that have not actually seen you in person since your hair has been cut in this fashion. You mentioned something about children in West Virginia? SONNY: She makes me sound like a chick - "Hairdo." Oh yes, I had found out that children in West Virginia wear their hair in this style. I was surprised to learn of this and I was wondering if I began to do it before they did or what the case was. Of course, we know the Mohicans did it first. It's very nice. It's easy for me to keep up. I do it myself. I don't have to go to the barber. It's very economical. I do it myself. It takes a few minutes, plus I think it enhances my continuance on personality. I've always had a feeling to do this. I got the nerve one day and did it. There is no other significance or meaning. FM: I notice the bells - are they something recent? SONNY: These have been recent. These are from India. BELLS: Ring, ring, ring. SONNY: Like them? JEAN: Yes. FM: I notice that there were two different sizes or shapes of bells. Is there any significance? SONNY: Yes, there is. See the one bells, the new ones, the light colored ones? I just put them on for the first time tonight. These were worn by the mendicants, the priests. These are a standard shape bell. You can see that they are very pretty. These are worn by the priests as they go around and if I am not mistaken, people give them food to eat and their whole life is spent just going around and blessing people. FM: They have a nice tone. SONNY: Exactly; and that's why I added them, because this also helps to get the audience in the correct frame of mind and get myself in the correct fram of mind. FM: The others are ball shaped. SONNY: They are almost completely enclosed. BELLS: Constantly ringing through conversation. FM: Sounds somewhat mystical. SONNY: They are; and I'll make you a present of a set if you are going to be around here by tomorrow. Anyplace you hang these up, and everyone that has these bells reports the same thing: that they ring at very rare times and it makes you think. BELLS: Ringing louder. JEAN: How long have you been here? SONNY: Eight weeks all together, Jean. JEAN: Nice stay. SONNY: Yes. It went pretty fast, didn't it? Next week is the last. FM: Then what? Overseas? SONNY: Yes, we want to go to Europe again because we have not been in a while. FM: You have been recording with RCA, I believe. SONNY: Yes, we have one more album with them which we are working on just about now, and there is one that's coming out now which has Herbie Hancock and Elvin Jones and Thad Jones. BELLS: Ring, ring. FM: Just saw Thad Jones in Philadelphia playing with Jerome Richardson and the group, up at the Uptown Theater there. SONNY: He was enjoyable, I know. He is a great musician. I heard him with Monk at Monk's Lincoln Center concert and he was great. So that should be a pretty good date and then we have one more which we are about to do now and then RCA and I will have come to the culmination of our stay together. We will part - friends, I hope. FM: There is definitely a parting there? SONNY: Definitely. The people are nice and I've been able to do what I wanted to do, more or less, but it's just that there are no other jazz musicians at RCA. So we will come to the end of our contract, which was for six albums. As you know, the much talked-about contract that we signed with them, this will be over by the end of June. We have our last date to do by that time. As I said, the company is fine and Mr. Avakian over there has been doing his job very well and I have no complaints. We now want to go with a company which is a little more oriented to the jazz idiom, if you know what I mean. FM: With this interview, I was eager to take this whole portable rig down to a bridge that you are very famous for. Evidently, we didn't, but I was just wondering about this. I read and heard of you practicing down on - what was it, the Williamsburg Bridge? SONNY: The Williamsburg Bridge, right. FM: Did you do this often? SONNY: Well, I did at one time, of course, after I came back to active work, and it became so highly publicized it wasn't so much the ideal spot. It's a nice bridge, though, just to go up and look at. It's a nice walk over that bridge. It's a long walk but it's nice. It has a promenade which is over everything else tso you are up on top of the cars and trains and everything. FM: Was this something that was just done once or twice or did you go repeatedly? SONNY: No, I stayed up on the bridge for six or seven days a week for quite a while. JEAN: This wasn't during the winter? SONNY: No, I had to stop when it got very, very cold. I was there quite a bit, even in the winter time. I got some gloves. It's a beautiful bridge and it's always nice to go up on something high, then you can see all around you. So it's a principle evolved of going up on a hill or up on a bridge. Unless you do, you can't see the terrain around you. So I was down in the lower east side in my apartment and I was like holed up in a little box and I never knew that this bridge was right there to show me the whole city. JEAN: Would you say that it created a feeling of no criticism and that you were the king up there? SONNY: I'll put it this way: it gave me a spiritual feeling. It, ah - gave me strength. FM: Acoustically, I imagine that you just heard yourself with no echo or reverberation. SONNY: Yes, it was very good for practicing. FM: Well, thanks, Sonny. It's been nice seeing you again after all of these years. We were talking about the Max Roach-Clifford Brown days. SONNY: Clifford Brown - oh boy, I'm glad we got his name into it. That's right. I'd like to come back to Philly. I don't know when I'll get back there. Whenever I'm there, Fred, I always think about those same days with Brownie. he did a great deal to help me along, and not just in a musical way. Such a great man. =================================================

Actually, no, not especially - I am certainly very appreciative of the recognition, of course. I do note that there is the occasional response published on Doug's site (at his discretion), but I still see absolutely nothing in a blog that hasn't been done better in a newsgroup or a bulletin board or an email list. It just seems to give the host the power to start a different small topic every day. I suppose there could be great depth, but I haven't seen it - these seem to be more quick little blurbs. I mean, there's nothing wrong with the content at all and I don't have any problem with drawing people's attention to articles, books, websites, etc. I just would rather read something where there are a number of equally qualified people who can offer their own perspectives, and who aren't obligated to start the topic every time. But since I don't see it mentioned above, let me recommend Marvin Stamm's website - specifically the "Cadenzas" and "In Response" sections. http://www.marvinstamm.com The setup is a bit confusing (to me) at times because the discussion isn't threaded. But there's a world of information in there. Mike

That page is so nice to see. There's something for everyone, it seems (all right, maybe not the hardcore avant garde folks). Even though I already have some of just about all of these, there's quite a few little additions that are going to make these tough to resist. Mike

Yes, 'Round Midnight was exceptional in this regard. Mike

I'm watching The Conversation right now and Hackman is DEFINITELY miming his part. He may have played it and is miming to himself, but no way is he producing the tenor sound we hear while watching him. Mike

I haven't seen this one in ages, but according to this http://www.aquariusrecords.org/bin/search....word=shirconvcd the jazz "records" were newly created by the film's scorer David Shire and - Hackman actually played the saxophone for the scenes. Mike

It's an historical curiosity that ought to be seen at least once if you're a Sun Ra fan. I put it on sometimes to see the "deep seriousness" of the discussion by the jazz club members in the film. I'm glad it's available and that I've got it in my collection, but if I want to watch some Sun Ra, I'd go with A Joyful Noise. Mike

Yes, Blue Ice had Pete King playing alto and Charlie Watts playing drums, among others. I found some similarities between this film and one I saw on TV recently titled The Score with Robert DeNiro as club owner (and thief). The performers in that one are Cassandra Wilson and Mose Allison. Mike

Hmmm - I very much disagree that the Genesis and Revelation pieces failed. They work wonderfully in my opinion. And Robinson's "voice of God" is not contrabass clarinet, but contrabass saxophone. Likewise, those are viols, not violas on the Trumpet After Dark CD. Mike

Yes, Restoration Ruin (1968, Atlantic, reissued as part of a 2-fer on Collectables, oddly enough paired with Art Ensemble of Chicago) - he sings too. Some pieces have string quartet, which are the only instruments not done by KJ. And just to pick a nit - isn't RR the second Vortex? http://www.JazzDiscography.com/Labels/vortex.htm There's also "Spirits" on ECM from much later (1985) where KJ plays everything. It's not a piano-centric album, more flutes and percussion and stuff. Mike

The Don Jacoby record is a nice enough big band record, but nobody gets much room (Jacoby himself takes every trumpet solo). There are 8 tunes on each side, all arranged by Glenn Osser, reminiscent of Woody Herman stuff. It's a mix of bebop (Groovin' High, Dizzy Atmosphere), standards (Teach Me Tonight, You Don't Know What Love Is, Lover Man, The End Of A Love Affair, etc.) and originals credited to Glenn and Edna Osser. The arrangements are solid, but very conservative (they were being published and sold to schools). When you get a saxophone solo it's 8 bars only, followed by 8 bars of saxophone soli, followed by 16 bars of tutti, followed by 16 bars of trumpet soli, etc. Here's the band: Al Beutler, John Giordano (as) Bob Pierson, Don Melka (ts) Jerry Keys (bar, as) Don Jacoby, Gary Slavo, Tom Wirtel, Bob Crull, Chris Witherspoon (t) Dee Barton, Willie Barton, Loren William Binford, Dave Wheeler (tb) Don Gililland (g) Keith Jarrett (p) Toby Guynn (b) John Von Ohlen (d) According to the notes, Dee Barton and his brother Willie were both with Kenton at the time of the recording. I see no evidence of Willie ever recording with SK. Further checking finds that Pierson did time with Woody Herman, Slavo and Crull with Kenton later, Wirtel and Wheeler with Kenton earlier, and Binford with various Chicago groups. There's a lot of Texas history here - even though only Von Ohlen and Gililland are listed as from NTSC, Guynn from SMU, Keys from Sam Houston, and Giordano from Texas Christian, others apparently also had NTSC hookups at one time or another - Wirtel, Keys, Guynn, Dee and Willie Barton, as well as Guynn are credited on a 1961 NTSC record. Binford appeared on one in 1969 and Guynn again in 1979. Jarrett plays some cocktail piano fills behind melody and solos on "Just For A Thrill" and "Sleepy Serenade". Here's what he had to say about the album in the Ian Carr bio, p.16: "I was not in college yet, so we just pretended I was at Berklee. I think Don Jacoby heard about me from someone who was at Fred Waring's [shawnee] Inn. I had to get on a bus, go to Chicago and stay at the Mayflower Hotel. I had never been in a recording studio before. The sheet music was, like, blank for the piano and then once in a while there were Basie chords, and then it was blank again. In the ballads I was allowed to do a little frilly work. It's not bad, actually, the album's all right." The band sounds *very* professional and Von Ohlen kicks it - but it would have been really nice to hear more stretching. Mike

I'm just concerned that up there Mingus has written a new piece for 12 double basses and has already pissed off Blanton, Pettiford, Hinton, Brown, Braud, Chambers, Safranski, Duvivier, Ware, Watkins, LaFaro, Stewart, and Garrison so he's put in requests for Heath, Michelot, Woode, NHOP, and McKibbon. Mike

That is one great shopping bag. A helluva lot better than the typical four hours on some jazz radio stations. Mike

Yes, I've got the LP (price tag says $1.99). I'll have a chance to give it a spin again later today. I'm amused that KJ's appearance has come full circle, after his days with the massive 'fro. I should also add that the reference to Jacoby in the excerpt I posted is a bit cryptic. Earlier on, the notes mention that Jacoby is referred to as "mother" (no, not "mutha") for his organizational/leadership skills. Mike

Actually, Jarrett's first official recording is with Don Jacoby. I have the record, titled "Swinging Big Sound" - by Don Jacoby and the College All-Stars. It's on Decca DL 4241 from 1962. Here's from the notes: "Not so incidentally, Keith Jarrett at sixteen is the youngest member of the ensemble. His versatility is interesting and typical. Accompanied by his mother (not Jacoby) he auditioned for Berklee by brilliantly executing concerti by Brahms and Gershwin, and finishing with several of his original jazz compositions." Dee Barton and John Von Ohlen are also in the band. Mike

But then again, as Bertrand well knows, Shorter is big at the Monk Institute as well. Mike

If Wayne is such a big Monk fan and he's got Danilo Perez, a well-known Monk fan (PanaMonk; duos with Steve Lacy), and John Patitucci, instructor at the Thelonious Monk Institute, in his band - odd that nothing has come of this. Mike

Anyone for Portuguese? http://www.estadao.com.br/divirtase/musica...5/jul/27/57.htm ====================== Bossa Nova perde Dom Um Romão Um dos criadores da Bossa Nova instrumental em grupos como os de Sérgio Mendes e de J. T. Meirelles, percussionista morreu no Rio Rio de Janeiro - O percussionista Dom Um Romão, um dos criadores da Bossa Nova instrumental em grupos fundamentais como os de Sérgio Mendes e de J. T. Meirelles, morreu domingo no Rio, às vésperas de completar 80 anos. Segundo seu sobrinho, Marcus Vinícius, com quem morava, ele vinha sentindo um constante mal estar nos últimos meses, mas trabalhava normalmente, fazendo workshops e apresentações no Brasil e no exterior. "No domingo passado, estávamos no estúdio do pianista Ricardo Leão, preparando a segunda faixa de um disco para este ano, quando ele passou mal", contou Marcus Vinícius. O enterro foi realizado segunda-feira, no cemitério de Mesquita, cidade da Baixada Fluminense, onde ele tinha um estúdio em que passava boa parte de seu tempo. Dom Um (este era seu nome de batismo) nasceu no Rio em 3 de agosto de 1925 e nos anos 40 já tocava nos cabarés da Lapa. Na década seguinte, quando a vida noturna mudou-se para Copacabana, ele participava as noitadas no Beco das Garrafas, onde pontificava a Bossa Nova instrumental. Era alegre e brincalhão e logo fez amizade com Tom Jobim e Vinícius de Moraes, que o chamaram para gravar Canção do Amor Demais, disco de Elizeth Cardoso, com músicas da dupla, considerado o pioneiro da Bossa Nova. Nos anos 60, foi para os Estados Unidos, onde chegou a integrar o grupo Weather Report. Nos anos 90, ampliou suas temporadas no Brasil e voltou a gravar aqui, mas dividia-se entre St. Gallen (na Suíça francesa, sua base européia), Niterói, onde morava com o sobrinho Marcus Vinícius, e Mesquita. Costumava ir também à escola de percussão Maracatu Brasil, do baterista do Barão Vermelho, Guto Goffi. "Ele participava de nossas jams nas quintas-feiras, ficava no meio dos músicos e sempre contava histórias legais. Estava sempre alegre, numa boa", disse Guto. A cantora Itamara Koorax, que participou de seu último disco, Lake of Perseverance, de 2001, disse que ele era um grande companheiro de palcos e camarins. "Viajamos muito pelo Brasil e pelo mundo e ele era super-engraçado, bem-humorado. Vai fazer muita falta como músico e também por este lado", lamentou. "A gente estava combinando fazer uma grande festa para seus 80 anos. Sua morte nos deixa muito tristes." O baterista tinha um filho, Cleber, que vive nos Estados Unidos, e morava com a irmã, Leonides, o sobrinho, Marcus Vinícius, e dois sobrinhos netos, Enzo e Fabricio. Beatriz Coelho Silva

Yes, still active, no problems that I know of. Plays with Bobby Few, Zusaan Kali Fasteau, and others. Mike

I'm not sure which is the prettier picture (big toe in bell jar or brain in thimble). Mike

I must have missed that earlier note. Apologies. I'd like to hear more of your impressions. Mike

Just read the news reported by a friend of his, that Brazilian percussionist Dom Um Romão died yesterday after having suffered a stroke on Sunday. His recorded career goes back to the early 1960s. He would have been 80 on August 3 - I was astonished to learn he was that old. I had the pleasure of playing alongside him once about 15 years ago. He played great drumset as well as percussion. Incredibly energetic. I guess he was only about 65 at the time. Something folks might not know is that he was married to Flora Purim back in the 1960s, before she married Airto Moreira. Haven't seen any official news reports yet. Mike

This Shorter-does-Monk thing is curious, particularly considering that apart from several 'Round Midnights, he only ever recorded Monk stuff while with Blakey: Evidence, 52nd Street Theme - or am I forgetting something? Mike

Wilen was so ahead of things there - EVERYTHING except Hackensack was "first recording apart from Monk" (and I think Hackensack was the same regarding a recording under that title as opposed to Rifftide or Oh, Lady Be Good). It's like how Renaud & Jaspar did an all-Gigi Gryce album in 1953! As for the tangential "first Monk tune recorded without Monk on the date" - wouldn't the 1957 Steve Lacy "Work" be very late? I mean, Bud Powell recorded "Off Minor" in 1947 even before Monk did, and there were the 1944 Cootie Williams things (with Bud also) - "Epistrophy" by Cootie in 1942 (or is that composed by Kenny Clarke?), and the 1946 Gillespie "'Round Midnight", etc. Or maybe there is some stipulation that I'm missing? Mike