David Ayers

I am going to get the new set. I'll be in Montreal some time this year. Can anyone connect me to a record store where I can reserve a copy an pick it up when I'm there? Um, somewhere central... Many thanks.

You know what, I'd be the first to agree that ECM transform even the more interesting artists into a samey middle-of-the-road, but I am grateful for a label that continues to issue many new recordings, and I think it is a good idea to talk about them. For all the fuss that is made on this board about the copyright owner's right to revenue from recordings of 30 or 60 years ago, really it is current artists and releases, not reissue programs, that are important for musical practice. No-one will ever look back on the musical culture of the early 2000s to document the reissue market. I guess I am saying that as someone who has worked through much of the 'historical' material, though I'll still buy a well-edited box set, and I won't even pretend I like these new ECMs - I mainly dislike them - but at least people are trying to do something new and not just living off back catalogue.

Are you aware that there is no overlap between these two sets? The new Canadian Verve box has the 1959 stereo albums with the drums trio, whereas the Avid set has the 1951-54 mono albums with the guitar trio. ....AND, while one can't be a slave to the original owners these days, I guess, the new 5 disc set, and the Mosaic are legit! Is the Avid? At 35 bucks or so for 5 discs, you can surely afford to be moral, and support the rights holder. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... and ohhhhhhhhhhh.... hmm... Yeah the Avid benefits from current eurocopyright laws - hence over here its legit but likely based on less-than-ideal sources.

The Sclavis is meant to be quite rocky, based on the Odyssey. I've been listening to the Louis Sclavis record a number of times for the past week. I would have really liked it in the 70s. It reminds me of that time's European fusion, with a rock beat and electric instruments. I'm not really into that sort of thing now. Maybe my metabolism has slowed down! But if that sort of thing is what you are looking for, it's good. Yeah and annoying perky melodies that sound like late 70s Camel. He's a great instrumentalist though.

Yeah, we'll see. Well in part it depends how much of the material can be alternatively sourced. How much is the Moncur going for? It's been OOP a while. Only one session from that is otherwise unavailable. The Select series is designed to lure collectors with its prominent numbering system, so you can be sure a certain category of buyer will pay over the odds for missing sets early in the sequence. However, it may be that since many of these sets are of strictly minority interest musically speaking, and also lack the physical attractiveness of the big boxes, that we won't see much of that.

Well, to quote myself from about 10 days ago, "...these are very pleasant recordings, done for easy listening rather than stretching boundaries. I like 'em.." I don't think they ever were intended or destined to be classics. Their individual releases were spaced out, remember, and they were listened to 20 minutes at a time, stacked on the old Collaro Continental changer with the Shearing and the Getz and maybe the Garner... Listen to them that way again, or just have them playing while cooking dinner. They're fine. You guys may have a point. I've been listening to the Avid set on Spotify and it could be all I need. The Avid set is 10CDs and also contains JATP material, and sessions with Billie Holiday, and horns - some you're more likely to have elsewhere (Young, Webster) and the odd rarity (Flip Phillips). I do think these Songbooks sessions have an interest though even if they may have been thrown off rather quickly.

Thanks. That's what I thought... I can score the Avid for about $16 inc. shipping. There's my (slight) dilemma...

I'd like this set, but I also notice that the Avid version which includes way more stuff is available over here pretty cheaply. Any comment on the relative merits/demerits of this no doubt less original but cheap and inclusive set?

Yeah. I just got gouged for $10 for the super-duper Columbia Ellington box. Now this. It hurts, but if you want these box sets what are you to do?

No sign yet of a euro-edition. I'm assuming since this is Universal and advertised as 10,000 copies that there will be one, but that might turn out not to be the case. Let's hope it has the correct disk one when and if it comes!

I'll never prefer any to Blue. 'We're 29 Ross, we're not women.'

Plain sounding, to my way of thinking. Didn't have any of this material though so was happy to buy it.

To avoid ambiguity and further unnecessary offence the title of this thread needs to be changed immediately to 'Jazz: Basically, it's for Morons.' Let's keep it friendly here and not involve the moderators unnecessarily. Those guys have enough to struggle with finding any real use for all those half-diminished chords they copied out the Jamey Aebersold books.

Actually I didn't know this but bought the one after it, Don Juan's Reckless Daughter on its original issue. That one grew on me somewhat even if I never loved it - enough that I redeemed it from the charity shop and still have it here. DJRD was widely slated, but listening to Hejira right now on Spotify it sounds somewhat similar and is rated by AMG as last in a long run of gud uns (DJRD was next so implicitly not a goodie). So hm aside from predictability of liking Blue and Mingus... what's truly what with the whingeing one?

FWIW when I had my netbook in the States I could use my Uk Spotify account... so there must be a workaround... you can use spotify while travelling for two weeks - then you must login from the UK again... Ah! Thanks for that. That tells us what the workaround would be...

FWIW when I had my netbook in the States I could use my Uk Spotify account... so there must be a workaround...

More and more Chandos appearing - just on with Hickox conducting Goossens http://open.spotify.com/album/3jpPL5SmbZ2ZAoFSyoUluu Also heavily sampling the now apparently OOP 32-39 Ellington Columbia set: http://open.spotify.com/album/6InDlL7rE1gQiRXtmhBGoU ... fine stuff.

Well maybe you are right guys. I can't see why they wouldn't keep it in print though (um, except that they can't have been making much money on it...). I wonder...

Be it noted that this Ellington set has now vanished - this happened in the last week or so and I am guessing it was to make room for the Mosaic. Who knows, maybe it will be back, but at this moment amazon sellers are listing it for over $100. Too good for the masses, it seems.

Practically to the day that this new set was announced, the Sony 4 CD 1932-39 set was withdrawn from sale worldwide. Coincidence? On the plus side, it's all on Spotify: http://open.spotify.com/album/6InDlL7rE1gQiRXtmhBGoU Groovy!!

I think you mean to say that their overhead is *high*. I don't know about that. They may know from experience that discounting does not increase the revenue stream. I'd have thought that now is the time to give serious discounts a go. The euromosaics which many of us here have bought have frequently been sold for less than half the regular Mosaic price so it can be done. The "euromosaics" do not have to pay royalties to the owner of the masters. Mosaic does. Mosaic also pays for the research/documentation/design/packaging of the sets. Universal gets all this stuff as part of their deal to allow Mosaic to make the sets and market them. I guess the license for the euro-issues is granted in lieu of a fee and in return for access to archive materials. The other costs you mention are fixed. The copyright owner pays any royalties due to artists and songwriters out of the licensing fee paid by Mosaic or out of revenue from the sale of the sets they sell. So Mosaic pay a fee to license the material but do not pay the performer/songwriter royalties which are paid by the copyright owner. The cost to the customer of a Mosaic set is basically a price point. Varying that can affect the revenue stream. My point is that many companies in all areas are reducing prices right now. My underlying point was that these sales at premium prices might never pick up - just a guess really that the bubble has truly burst. It didn't cost more to make five John Patton albums, forty years ago, than it did to make the Lord of the Rings trilogy, but it does cost more to buy hard copies of them in a 3CD box set than it does to buy the set of Lord of the Rings DVDs. That can't *quite* be right. However it costs nothing to listen to streams of all those albums. Hence my other underlying question about levels of royalties paid in different contexts. PS FWIW it will be worth looking out for bargains on Peterson and (when it comes, assuming it's coming) Armstrong later this year.

I think you mean to say that their overhead is *high*. I don't know about that. They may know from experience that discounting does not increase the revenue stream. I'd have thought that now is the time to give serious discounts a go. The euromosaics which many of us here have bought have frequently been sold for less than half the regular Mosaic price so it can be done.

It's good that this company persists. I'm surprised though that they maintain the gentlemanly high prices at a time of downturn and don't shift stock with some serious price cuts. Much of what they sell is available on advertising supported streaming services so I guess the music owners are not charging too much these days. Even Harrods has blow-out sales. Sony sold their newly remastered Ellington set for about $5 - OK that's deep as discounting goes but isn't there a happy medium? Same goes for other reissue programs. Maybe the collector market is judged to be robust - my sense is that many people have tired of paying for all those reissues. Maybe I am wrong.

Are you going? So far no takers on this board.... I'm a former Ornette fan and I've seen him play a few times, but I have to admit I'm not strongly drawn to this. Not really as forward looking as it's cracked up to be. Most of the main acts have been around for 40 or more years. (I didn't read the FT article as I would have had to register, so maybe the article continued in a less uncritical vein than it started). Also I hate the South Bank since they spent £111 million for refurbishing the RFH and failed to improve the audience acoustic. That's a lot of quangocratic waste. I only go there when it's essential or for social reasons.

Link didn't work. Corrected!