David Ayers

I took it Shoemaker was not endorsing Murray in general but using him to highlight the jazz-as-high-art-music model which took over commentary on the avant-garde.

More loose thinking than i can chase down, but let's put it this way - consolidators like Universal don't own the PD material - no-one does. How you access it is up to you. The consolidator may control the physical masters, but has zero ownership in the recording. Zero. People either get this or they don't. As for the claim that the PD issues prevent consolidators from investing in marketing back catalog, the pattern of releases over the years does not suggest that. PD labels go beyond what the consolidators do. PD reissues generally cost more than the (equally PD in Europe) consolidators' own reissues. In any case, consolidators have done this stuff in the past, as with Blue Note, but backed off as they could not make it work in terms of their business model, They still do it from time to time, as with the recent Warner Atlantic series, and when they do it they sell cheaper than the PD labels. This debate will wane, I think, as major copyright owners got European PD reset to 70 years from now on to protect their major properties such as the Beatles. PS - yes on streaming, which changes the debate yet again - the PD releases make Spotify look like a junk shop, un-navigable.

I just wish that 'picking up a new Braxton' would not so often be an all-or-nothing proposition. By which I mean, does everything have to be a box set?

That'd mean the box was produced by Fantasy originally, and that it has been released in Europe by the international branch of Universal, which is based in London. From what I've seen, this would be a Europe-only release, hence an import in the US and Japan. From what a friend's told me, boxes like the Jarrett, with a © line referring especifically to Italy, would mean a product for the local market which can also be exported to others. In practical terms, this would normally imply fewer units manufactured. Given that these guys own the masters they're releasing, I don't think it has anything to do with PD, Ubu. F Actually it might. Since these packages are being manufactured and marketed in the EU, they might avoid contractual obligations from the US. Just wondering. My guess is that you are right, and that it would have always been the case for euro-releases. I really don't see Universal et al. handing over money they don't have to.

Oh. i have skim read it now. That is a very good piece. The question of reception is very important. The word he is looking for is 'surrealism.'

Haven't got time to read the piece, but regardless of vocabulary if he is relating the European reception of AEC to '68 he is surely correct.

For the rest, if people don't like these products they won't buy them. Paying for music is entirely optional these days. These labels are offering a service, that's all. In fact quite a good service in some ways. Masses of material is kept available, there is really good distribution. And that is actually what your music-dollar is paying for, not the musicians or the imaginary fat-cats. I sometimes think that the general fuss we make about royalties is a displacement of our own unease about how much of what we pay for music (over 90%) just goes to pay for the service. The retailer makes far more per unit than the musicians or composers. Some people think shop prices are too high. Guess what, they are not high enough, and stores close. Distribution the same, it costs money, and the reason that these PD releases cost as much as official ones is that you are paying for this chain, there's no way round it. You aren't paying for music, so much, you are paying for someone to get it to you. Mind you, a friend of mine is the estate of a name musician. Fresh Sounds recently did one of his. I haven't yet asked her about that, if she even knows about it let alone if they contacted her. She is periodically contacted regarding permissions so I am quite curious if FS went this route. If she's cross about it I might not defend them....

I guess you can use the word how you like but...that isn't what it means to most people. I forgive you though

If you think about what it is you pay and what it is you actually get, you (usually) really don't get what you pay for! Lot of truth in that. I paid £5 for the entire Lord of the Rings Trilogy on 3 DVDs. That begins to be value for money. If you can be bothered to watch it. Music is steadfastly over-priced. Only way that our small niche can be serviced with the massive over-production which it seems to require. Um, or maybe that's not what you meant...

Well I guess if they copied the Stateside set the quality is pretty reasonable . Like you I mainly avoid this stuff, partly on quality grounds, partly on aroma, and I haven't ever put my toe in the water with the '8 albums for the price of a (Swiss) beer' crew...

Not bootlegs, which are unauthorised releases of otherwise unavailable live recordings. And these are legitimate releases, with questions (for some) over ethics regarding sources. But...they are legal and not in any sense boots. Sorry to keep hammering over points of vocabulary. Oh and anyway boots are great - who'd be without them?

Evidently I didn't put enough winkies

We will be waiting with baited breath by the letter box ! Be careful what you catch. Bated.

Thanks. They're playing it close to the chest...

May be that the Japanese releases are licensed only for release in Japan. The recent spate of Warner euro-japanese releases may be an indication that could change more broadly. Maybe. Sorry, a bit OT.

I asked about the take-away window. Nobody's talking. Suspicious.

All the fuss that we made here about Don Was...

It looks like a Concord US release (the barcode indicates US product, if I'm not mistaken) for European markets. FWIW it's not listed in the Concord site and Amazon.com doesn't seem to carry it. (It doesn't appear on Amazon.jp either) I'm only speculating, though. It'd be great if anyone could tell what it says on the actual box. F Amazon.com lists the Coltrane as an (expensive) import...

Probably explains why the Coltrane and Davis are more costly than the universal.it sets. I wonder where they originate then. Does anybody actually have one?

@alankin - No. Those are the albums in Dolphy's name, one album per CD. The 9 CD set included six albums with Dolphy as sideman with live sessions presented in running order.

Good point on the JC Complete Prestige - I just assumed it was universal.it but maybe not. The Davis Chronicle which I mentioned in the other thread is certainly may be them. I actually don't know. There may be hopes yet that they will do the full Dolphy box and, who knows, the Kirk, if these things sell which it seems they do.

@ubu - maybe worth including the Coltrane Complete Prestige in the main list instead of in a note - I suspect that and the Miles Davis Chronicle will be among the most popular and I dare say they are responding to feedback about the other perhaps less satisfactory album sets by those two.I wouldn't want a casual browser of this thread to miss those!

i don't think we discussed it but universal.it have also done the Miles Prestige box.

Seems that 'the blues' is the last refuge of a scoundrel

Some good prices on Universal box sets at mdt.co.uk. This UK site has regular label offers, this particular offer seems to have some better reductions than usual. It may be these prices will be reflected on uk amazon, so worth checking these titles there too. http://www.mdt.co.uk/special-offers/collectors-edition-boxsets.html