mjazzg

No, not necessarily. But I do think it's more likely to be noticed (especially in the short term) if it is noted as such. The two contemporary musicians I mentioned, Rochford and Hawkins are both quietly creating a significant body of work that continues to develop and with hindsight may end up being described as "evolves slowly" but I would still argue for both being innovators.

Might it be that whilst there has been many fine players since 80s in the UK there hasn't been very many with such an individual voice or even, dare I say, innovative approach to make themselves heard above what is now a globalised din? The UK may have produced world class players in the last 30 years but not that many who have stood out enough as different or taking the music into new areas. This might simply be down to the overwhelming noise of the din rather than the lack of real innovation although I'm not too sure. Whereas my understanding of the regard in which the 60s/70s 'heroes' are held is because they were producing music that was different - Tippett's large ensembles and Ovary Lodge, Brotherhood of Breath. Surman (see the other thread), Westbrook, Azimuth to name those that come immediately to mind (there are others I'm sure). Now I wasn't listening to these contemporaneously so can't attest to their difference or innovation then. Also was there more of a critical mass back then creating a scene, focused around particular labels Ogun for instance? In the 80s when I started listening the 'big noises' were marketed almost in reaction to that 70s scene. We got Courtney Pine, Andy Sheppard, Tommy Smith et al all dressed in suits. Each of those musicians subsequent careers revealed the marketing ploy for what it was as none of them remained ploughing that furrow. Outside this 'jazz revival' sat the marvellous Loose Tubes and their fellow travellers alongside other interesting bands such as Pinski Zoo. Not for this lot the sharp suits but sharp and often innovative music instead The Loose Tube legacy is huge in a family tree manner but who of those players have really forged individual careers of innovation? Django Bates surely. any others? Iain Ballamy with Food perhaps? Currently I can think of only and handful of UK players that are really pushing into uncharted or little discovered areas whilst not forgetting what's gone before - Seb Rochford and Alex Hawkins are both great examples of this as might be Laura Jurd, Reuben Fowler or Shabaka Hutchings in time. The improv world is different and there are players in that scene from the UK who rightly command an international reputation - witness the enthusiasm for Messrs Noble and Edwards, John Butcher, Paul Dunmall and others on this board. There seems to me more of a sense of generational progression in this music where for instance Evan Parker influences John Butcher who both influence Seymour Wright and the music is pushed correspondingly forward and outward towards new margins. I'd love to hear from others which UK musicians they feel has been truly innovative since the 80s? All of this is purely personal observation and I know names have been missed out who should have been mentioned.

....and I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of the new Mike Osborne archival release 'Dawn' [on Cuneiform] which features JS at the tender age of 21 in what I believe is his first recording (apart for the boy soprano recordings)

Great! Looking forward to this one big time. Will dig in after the Surman-fest generated by that other thread...

Wish i could make it to Southampton to see you play with him. It's got be great, hasn't it? Are the Beeb recording it do you know?

Where to start? Surman seems to fit any sized grouping in which he performs and always stamps his personality on the session one way or another. He has an instantly recognisable sound on whatever horn (or tin whistle) he plays. I think Bev nails it when he mentions the importance of folk and choral music. I'm listening to his duo album with Howard Moody playing church organ 'Rain on the Window' and it perfectly encapsulates the manner in which he seamlessly fuses his influences. I'd suggest that for someone regarded a Jazz musician he's made relatively few straight ahead Jazz albums. i'm very fond of his solo recordings and I think those that explicitly reference his South-Western roots seem very personal works - 'Road to St Ives', 'Rev Absalom Dawe', 'Saltash Bells'. I also really like the quartet with Oxley, Bley and Peacock. In concert, The Brass Project with John Warren was one of the most exciting concerts I've attended and his solo concerts some of the most intimate (even in a large space) There's so much else. SOS and his larger band recordings in the 70s, his work with Westbrook. In fact just the recordings from what we might call the pre-ECM years stand alone as a very impressive statement. I'm sure others who enjoyed these as they were realised will chime in with more informed appreciation than I can give. Live he is one of the most self-effacing and humble musicians I've seen and always seems genuinely surprised by the positive reaction his playing generates. He also has a great sense of humour. You may have guessed by now, I'm a fan

For someone who knows little of this subject this discussion is absolutely fascinating. Thanks everyone. I'm off to find a copy of this Gioia book. After that I know I'll be delving deeper into the music than I have so far

I never tip at the bar. Don't see why I should really. More likely to if waited on at a table but still unlikely if drinks only. My barber and restaurant waiting staff and sometimes minicab drivers (but not if they don't know where they're going) are the recipients of my restricted largesse. Usually 10-15%

Matana Roberts - Coin Coin Chapter Three, River Run Thee [Constellation] another very singular and personal statement. First listen reveals a denser tapestry of sounds than previously despite it effectively being a solo recording. Spoken word, found sound, singing and saxophone all emerge from a sometimes dense seemingly electronic haze. This will require many listens to fully reveal its depths, I suspect. Intrigued....

En Corps is a stunning record. The Leandre/Lazro's pretty impressive too. I like the look of the others, nice purchases. This week (so far....) Matana Roberts - Coin Coin Chapter 3,River Run Thee Edward Vesala - Rodina Amina Claudine Myers - Women in (E)motion, Live in Bremen Mike Osborne - Dawn

My copy arrived yesterday. Waiting for a day off work tomorrow to investigate. Expectations are high

Amina Claudine Myers - Poems for Piano (The Piano Music of Marion Brown) [sweet Earth Records] one of my favourite musicians interprets another favourite and it certainly doesn't disappoint

We Like We - A New Age of Sensibility [The Being Music]

Konstrukt and William Parker - Live at NHKM [Holiday Records]

Me too. Just found it on Spotify so will be bale to trial before buying

Yes please. Looking forward to some enlightening listening

Two sets! (albeit 45 min each). I've only seen Braxton do single sets timed to the big sand dial he uses (about an hour). Would like to see that group! Yes, it was a treat. Each set seemed no longer than 30 mins Tomorrow night it's Brotzmann, Drake and Parker at Cafe Oto. Can't wait to hear that combination live

He [played it at the London Jazz Festival last year. sadly, I missed it. This reviewer didn't http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/nov/24/charles-lloyd-soundprints-review-london-jazz-festival

Thanks Clifford. Time to buy I think

Was the reissue of BAG In Paris, Aries 1973 on Rank and File legit does anyone know? I'd love a copy of 'Orange Fish Tears'. Lottery win dependent I suspect edit: to add big thank you to bogdan 101 for the posting

That's a beaurty :tup

Just stumbled on this interview http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/jan/19/matana-roberts-music-race-america-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin Can't wait for my pre-order of Coin Coin Chapter Three

Don't think I've ever heard of that one! That can be rectified at our next meet if you'd like,,,,it'll appreciate a holiday "up North" I'm sure

Got my ticket. looking forward to seeing Cowell, McBee and Tolliver all for the first time. See you there Bev? Three days in Bristol in March. Nothing to my liking (except Dr John) but at least they're putting something together http://www.bristoljazzandbluesfest.com/

Babbington/Austin/Gallivan - Home From Home [Ogun]