Daniel A

When browsing some old archived threads I have (prompted by the possible BNBB revival at AAJ) I came across this thread about Pacific Jazz. I remember someone mentioning that thread as something that would be missed from the old board, so I thought I could as well re-post the contents here, as they are quite interesting. And this is not meant to undermine Mike's efforts on the AAJ board; I just thought it could be good to have this thread back, and perhaps see some fresh views on the subject: Rachel Member Member # 1631 posted April 06, 2001 09:43 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm new here, but after some searches, I get the sense that whenever Pacific Jazz or West Coast Jazz is mentioned, there's an accompanying discussion of poor sales and lack of interest. Why? Is it a stigma about jazz from California? I just listened to Teddy Edwards on Pacific Jazz this morning. And then Bob Brookmeyer. Is the interest in Pacific Jazz that much less than Blue Note? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 40 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged reinier Member Member # 339 posted April 06, 2001 09:51 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rachel, I don't get it as well. They even reissued the Pacific Jazz album by Booker Ervin in the Blue Note Connoisseur series (so people won't be scared away by the PJ logo I think). Pacific Jazz equals quality jazz imo, just as BN does. East Coast/West Coast......it's just about good jazz which is on both coasts (but I'm a real WC addict as well as EC). But the sales are telling it all I'm afraid. Let's hope there will be more PJ titles in disquise (like the Ervin one) so at least we will get them. All the best and welcome a board! Reinier -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 794 | From: The Hague, The Netherlands | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged arb Member Member # 225 posted April 06, 2001 10:03 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some of the discussion on the West Coast Classic series voiced a theory that, since these artists were unfamilair to most, the high price tags discouraged casual listeners from picking them up. (Not me, but then again, I'm an idiot when it comes to this stuff.) Which is a shame, becuase I found them all very enjoyable, even the flute stuff. Even the stuff with the harpsichord, for that matter. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 562 | From: NY NY USA | Registered: Jun 99 | IP: Logged Hawkins Member Member # 93 posted April 06, 2001 11:40 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just recently read Giola's "West Coast Jazz" and went on a West Coast kick - of course, that included trying to track down a lot of Pacific Jazz recordings. So much of the Pacific Jazz that was reissued just a couple of years ago are all but obsolete already. It really is quite a strange paradox - if those releases really were so unpopular, you'd think they would still be around, begging to be bought. But I guess Blue Note had kept that batch to a very small number of original pressings and gave up on them fairly quickly. All I can say is, thank God for Mosaic/True Blue for keeping a lot of this stuff in print (or hoarding all of the copies they can, as in the case of True Blue). But I would have to agree that the typical West vs. East argument falls flat. When I first started listening to jazz, I fell for it, and there really is some kind of strange reverse racism at work. Although I'm white, I thought for a long time that only blacks could play "real" jazz - it's "their" music, and only they can invest it with the spirit of its roots. Of course, the fact that some great black musicians recorded for Pacific Jazz escaped me, and the realization of that is probably what led me originally to give the label a chance - and, eventually, to get over my aversion to cool, "white" jazz. It's sad, but I don't doubt that it happens to a lot of jazz fans. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 296 | From: New York, NY, USA | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted April 06, 2001 11:47 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't doubt it either Ryan; I think I fell prey to that thinking as well at an early point. Pacific Jazz and its tributary labels was a really nice group of jazz recordings. I like that Richard Bock was a producer with a vision, as was Alfred Lion, and also was a recording engineer for his labels, which was an interesting combination! There was such a wide variety of material he produced that it certainly can't be pigeonholed, and certainly goes beyond "West Coast Cool." I was disappointed to read that the Connoisseur series was such a poor seller, as I found it very exciting and hope for more in time. Seems puzzling that a few more Jazz Crusaders releases (preferrably in twofers!) aren't available, as this music falls within the tastes of most Blue Note fans and are very fine. I would think if given a breath of life and a bit of promotion they could be successful reissues, but then I am just a fan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 10027 | From: Austin, TX USA | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged mjzee Member Member # 1216 posted April 06, 2001 11:52 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As an aside, I heartily recommend the "West Coast Jazz" box from Fantasy. It was a real ear-opener. Excellent writing and playing, and a tremendous range of styles. Good transfer quality, too, and a very good book. Selections come from many different labels, not just from the Fantasy stable. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 737 | From: Connecticut | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged Rachel Member Member # 1631 posted April 06, 2001 01:04 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wow, great points guys. I guess that most fans of jazz start with so-called East Coast jazz, and are inclined to form the opinions you're mentioning. I started with West Coast jazz, and when I went exploring for new music, I had to get used to East Coast jazz! The whole geography thing is nuts, but I guess people need labels. What were the "tributaries" of the Pacific Jazz label? What are some deserving-for-reissue titles? I'd like more Bud Shank. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 40 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged JSngry Member Member # 1611 posted April 06, 2001 01:58 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Valid points all, but let's not be blinded by the fact that there came to be a "West Coast" stigma for a reason. It became sort of the "smooth jazz" of it's day and a LOT of cute, overly-arranged, foo-foo stuff was released, often by "name" players. This history can be overlooked in the days of the selective re-issue, which thankfully enables us to objectively evaluate individual recordings/artists on a per-case basis. As for the racial angle that has been brought up, there is validity there as well, but only up to a point. The hostility that was felt at the time, and continues to linger, was due in large part, not to reverse racism per-se, but instead to the economic impact that Black artists (many of whom are today Blue Note Gods) felt by having the vast amount of media attention and public spending going towards the predominatly White west coast artists, few of whom were CREATING at a level of the east coast artists. JUST for an example, in 1958, Bud Shank probably sold a TON more records than Jackie McLean, and was a semi-household name, as opposed to McLean, who was little know outside the East Coast, and then mostly by musicians only. Does that invalidate Shank as a player? Of course not. But at the time, that dynamic existed throughout the marketplace, and was a great cause of resentment, because anytime you deal with the "marketplace" racial factors inevitably become involved, and remember, musicians' livlihoods depend on the marketplace. What does this have to do with the intrinsic value of the music? Little, if anything. Today we can all hear the validity of the best of the west coast artists. But art does not exist in a vaccumn (but apparently spelling does ). If we are not aware of the realities of what the then-contemporary scene was, we can easily misinterpret our current one, and before you know it, it's deja-vu all over again! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 10259 | From: tx, usa | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged Swinging Swede Member Member # 197 posted April 06, 2001 02:58 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I’m with Reinier on this one. I like everything I have heard so far from the Pacific Jazz catalogue, and would like to hear more. It’s depressing to see how much of the PJ catalogue remains unreleased on CD. I don’t view West Coast jazz as inferior in any way. What I hear in West Coast jazz from the 50’s is that it has some similarities to Swing Era conceptions that East Coast jazz didn’t have. There are often arranged sections between solos, and there is a certain influence from the Count Basie/Lester Young approach, both in the rhythm section and in the soloing, although it still is safely labelled as modern jazz. It’s not better, but it’s not worse either; it’s simply a different way of making valid music. In the 60’s the scene had changed anyway. From then we have albums by Curtis Amy, Carmell Jones, The Jazz Crusaders and others, langushing in the vaults. These were stylistically closer to the Blue Note recordings, and would probably be appreciated also by those who don’t like traditional West Coast jazz. Blue Note recently licensed a Roulette album to Label M. Perhaps licensing could be a solution for the Pacific Jazz catalogue? I’m sure Collectables, Koch, Label M etc would be interested in reissuing them. That goes for Roost/Roulette and Capitol titles too, that Blue Note has little interest in reissuing itself. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged Bill Fenohr Member Member # 592 posted April 06, 2001 03:56 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- JSngry, I cant go along with your analysis of West Coast Jazz wholeheartedly. The music of the fifties did put an emphasis on arrangments, but i think alot of those players were influenced by Miles (an eastcoaster) Birth Of The Cool, and were exploring that direction. Add to that the fact that many of the west coast players (Shank, Bob Copper, Charlie Mariano,etc) were big band players who were used to playing arranged music. As far as the "smooth jazz" of the day, one also has to remember that the west coast was the center of the Beat Movement in the 50's and the softer flute type stuff was what they wanted in the coffee house scene. I think groups like Chico Hamilton and The Mastersounds took this approach, but still played some highly inventive jazz. In the 60's when Dick Bock changed the name of his label from World Pacific to Pacific Jazz his roster of artists included Curtis Amy, Les McCann,Gerald Wilson,Carmell Jones,Joe Pass,Groove Holmes,and The Jazz Crusaders. At Cntemporary you had Teddy Edwards,Howard McGhee,Hampton Hawes,Phineas Newborn,Art Pepper and Barney Kessel,none of these guys exactly "foo foo" players IMHO. As far as the racial thing was concerned,west coast groups were far more likely to be intergrated then groups back east. Just look at your BN and Pretige records from the 60's if you dont believe me. If Bud Shank was more popular then Jackie,i think it was because the producers on the west coast were smart enough to realize that if you were going to sell jazz to white people in those days, it had better be something they could relate to. Most of the real sucessful stuff by west coast groups were jazz versions of broadway shows. The Mastersounds sold well with their covers of The King And I and Kismet.The Shelly Manne/Andre Previn My Fair Lady topped the jazz charts for over a year. Chico's South Pacific sold well. If the east coast black artists had a problem it was that they did'nt relate to the white record buying public. By the late 60's Pacific Jazz had been bought by Liberty and suffered the same fate as Blue Note in that they had to put out a lot of junk aimed at the crossover market. I am of the opinion that in some ways the west coast scene was far more open to experimentation in the 50's and 60's then the east and produced a hell of alot of great jazz that deserves to be heard by a new generation of fans. So there is my two cents or maybe it was a nickel. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1484 | From: Lansing,Mi,Ingham | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged JSngry Member Member # 1611 posted April 06, 2001 05:00 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill, Maybe even a dime! A lot of what you say I can agree with to a great extent, but I don't know if we're necessarily talking about the same thing. I have no problem whatsoever with arranged music (Mulligan's stuff still sounds fresh), or the "cool" sound in general (one of the first jazz LPs I bought in 1970 was a reissue of the first Chico Hamilton LP-still treasure it), but these items as well as the groups/records (except for the Previn, but that's my taste) you mention are among the works that hold up, which was kinda my point. There was a LOT of music made back then that does not (I've heard a lot of it, because my high school had 3-4 faculty who when they found out that I was getting into jazz tried to sell me on Shank as better than Bird). LOTS of assembly line sessions with soundalike charts (that's another thing-yeah, the arrangers were influenced by BOTC, but very few of them EXPLORED that direction' they often just copped the sound), generic solos, and all the cuts came in under 4:00 (not a bad thing in itself, but...), generic solos, and an overall sense of "product". Not bad players, not bad music, just not in the spirit of what we usually call "Jazz" in any but a superficial sense. In fact, Shank has been quoted, as have other players of the time, as speaking of those sessions in unflattering terms. THESE are the albums that aren't being reissued, or if they are, not by Blue Note. Pacific Jazz (it's original name-btw) & Contemporary were two quality conscious labels with overall musical integrity-they kept the foo-foo stuff to a bare minimum and usually released quality stuff. But there were MANY other labels that cranked out the assembly line stuff like clockwork, and some of the majors got in on the act. As far as the integration thing, you may be right, but again, up to a point. The west coast groups were integrated often on record, but live gigs were often (not always) something else. Did you know that Teddy Edwards was the original tenorist w/the Lighthouse All-Stars? He got bumped for a white guy for no definite reason other than the clique thing. Read about it in the aforementioned Gioa book, which is excellent.It does seem however, that things were more open between players out west, in spite of the notorious LAPD (yes folks, they were even more rascist then than they are now ) More open to experimentation? That's subjective, I suppose, but a lot of what passed for experimentation back then strikes me today as grafting on of effects rather than organic creativity. I think this was due to the whole film score mentality which most of those guys were involved in also. Again there are notable exceptions (Manne & Giuffre particularly). Don't quite know how to respond to how not being able to relate to the white record buying public being is a "problem." You could mean a couple of things by this and I wouldn't want to respond unless I knew EXACTLY what you meant. But your comments about selling Jazz to white people sort of reinforce my point about the worst west coast recordings. BTW-I feel it important to distinguish, for the sake of clarity, between "west coast jazz" (a style) & "California jazz" (a geographic designation only), that may be where some of the ambiguity comes in-Teddy Edwards played California jazz, but by no stretch of the imagination did he play "west coast" jazz. The point of my first post was NOT to denigrate or minimize "west coast" jazz, but merely to point out that if all you know are the re-issues, you're not getting the full picture of the overall scene of the time, just a selected piece of it. And a good piece at that! Are we up to 50 cents yet? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 10259 | From: tx, usa | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged Bill Fenohr Member Member # 592 posted April 06, 2001 05:42 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now that you have explained it more fully i think we are in agreement on most points. What i meant about selling to the white record buying public was as you say, watered down arrangements and so forth. But if that was your target market in those days,thats what you had to do. I think that same thing happened on the east coast with the rise of the bogaloo sessions in the late 60's, which was targeted to the black market. Many of those sessions are nothing to write home about either. I guess each coast had its sins. I guess that is what makes jazz so great. Everyone can find their own little nitche and just enjoy the hell out of it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1484 | From: Lansing,Mi,Ingham | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged JSngry Member Member # 1611 posted April 06, 2001 08:01 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill, Cool! (pun intended!) I personally like a lot of the boogaloo things, but yeah, a lot of them are by rote. The good ones I like because I've been around the people (in a social setting) whose lifestyle is reflected by that whole vibe. But I wouldn't expect anybody who had not had those experiences to like it for anything other than the "it's got a good beat and you can dance to it" syndrome, if that. We all bring our life to our listening. The beauty is that we can be taken by something different, explore it learn about it, and in the process grow ourselves. I kinda like that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 10259 | From: tx, usa | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged Pete B. Member Member # 377 posted April 06, 2001 08:24 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'd like to throw out another point about the popularity of west coast jazz. Many of the notable players were Kenton alumni. Now, Kenton isn't exactly my cup of tea, but all the 60-something guys I know in jazz circles (these are guys I play music with from time to time) are still wild about him. To a man they tell me that Kenton WAS popular music for them in their youth. I think his influence on the west coast scene is more pervasive than Birth of the Cool. And Kenton is a lot more of a mixed bag: he really wasn't all that jazz-oriented, from what I've read, but was reaching for something more related to composed music. Again and again I read references to how his guys wanted to swing while he wanted to do "City of Glass" type things. Stan was a commercial force of the day, and I think his sound carries over into a lot of the west coast product of the day, understandably so since many of his writers/arrangers were the guys leading or arranging all those albums, including many of the really commercial ones that sound so cheesy today. MY 2 cents worth, if you please. Pete -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 603 | From: PA | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted April 07, 2001 06:24 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Man, I love to read history like that presented by JS, and Bill, and Pete. Pete I think Kenton was a big economic factor: he hired a lot of players and arrangers who made money. . . playing a lot of stuff, some of which they probably really didn't want to. Birth of the Cool and Miles (and Mulligan both in the Birth of the Cool arrangements and separately) were I think very influential in the creation of concept and structure. And Basie's band and arrangers were very influential as well (look how important Shorty Rogers was to the scene and how important Basie was to Shorty) and Lester Young was very important both conceptually as a player/composer and directly on many many of the saxophonists, tenor and alto alike (altoists like Pepper and Desmond I hear a lot of Pres within.) More and more I have to admit how great a player Bud Shank was and IS. I have to say that these days I think I prefer him to Jackie Mac. (Scandalous eh?) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 10027 | From: Austin, TX USA | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged JSngry Member Member # 1611 posted April 07, 2001 11:57 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Due to the erratic character of much of the BNBB's contents, I think it would be a completely manual process of inserting desirable threads into the AAJ forums anyway. Personally, I think this will never happen. What would Blue Note's interest in this be? A wealth of 'Once again you've managed to disappoint me with the latest batch of re-releases'-type threads would possibly not improve the profile of the company... but, who knows?

Chrystal clear, Jim! I hope most board members will accept this statement. The occasional voices claiming their "freedom of speech" has been violated on this and other message boards when administrators have taken actions like this have always sounded ridiculous to me. I think this is for the best of the board.

The best way to arrange it would probably be to ask Jim when (weekday and time) the previous all-time-highs have been (and when there is a potential for as many members as possible to participate), and choose an appropriate time for the event.

I would say about the same thing as Jim about 'How Insensitive'. I'm not as great a fan of that album as, say, Lon though. I think the best cuts are those with Flora Purim+rhythm. The chorus makes it all too much of mood music for my taste. It's not that I don't like voices in a setting like this, I've got all of the Singers Unlimited albums on MPS, if you're familiar with them. It just seems to me that the 'New York Group Singers' Big Band' isn't up to the level of Pearson, Cranshaw et al. Pearson's own playing on 'Stella by Starlight' is as classy as anything he did, though. I'd recommend 'How Insensitive' for Pearson fanatics / completists only.

Conn, don't trust the AMG too much! I'd rank 'The Phantom' as one of the best albums in the Pearson Select. Jim, maybe all the Minasi albums ended up in Sweden? I found about twenty cut out copies of his debut 'When Joanna Loved Me' once. I bought one for next to nothing, and even that was a waste. Forgettable from the liners to the last chord. Not Minasi's fault, perhaps - I remember the string arrangements as espescially unbearable. You know, that kind of a bit too small string section that just sounds cheap...

I don't know of any other recorded meetings than Wilson's own debut albums on Atlantic and Blue Note respectively, and one or two of Ayer's late 60s Atlantics. But there may be more hidden on more obscure titles.

I have never commented upon Deep's posts, and I will not do so now. But if you want to keep up the quality of the board, continue to post about music. Don't spend your time posting about trolls. Every post mentioning the troll will have served his purpose. I will now return to posting about music. Hopefully, so will the departed members.

In my early teens I was more into classical music than jazz, allthough I was exposed to jazz at home since a very young age, and probably started buying an occasional jazz record as soon as I'd left the 'Abba' phase. However, about the age of 18 I got more and more into jazz, espescially since I was starting to play jazz on piano myself (my classical piano teacher had given up by then). I've always had periods revisiting classical music, buying a bunch of CDs now and then, but they have seemed to get less intense... until last week! I found a good deal on a Thorens turntable two weeks ago - it was sold in a record shop nearby, which at the same time happened to have a good price on a couple of 10 000s classical LPs as well! (Apparently classical LPs are slow movers these days) Everything was 1.50 Euro a piece, except if a lower price was given! So a few days later, after I'd revisited my Jazz LP collection, I went back to the shop. I returned home with some 70-80 classical LPs, all in Near Mint or Mint condition. As a result, my listening for the last week has been LP only, and classical only (except for the album 'Bernstein plays Brubeck plays Bernstein', which is... well, both jazz and classical).

Perhaps Cuscuna is not to be taken literaly? I got this a few years ago and it wasn't too expensive. I would think that there are at least a few early 70s misfires which are as rare, if not rarer, as well as a couple of the later Bobby Hutchersons. But they are perhaps not considered as "true" Blue Note releases since Frank Wolff too was gone by then. Anyone who remembers Moacir Santos?

Thanks again, Claude! I'm still a newbie when it comes to more advanced turntable setup - the links were exactly what I needed!

Claude and Patricia; many thanks! Since the stylus is working, I'll probably keep it for a while, but, yes, the fact that Shure is no longer manufacturing them makes me want to move fast anyway. The link to the Vinyl Asylum - that site is new ground for me, even though I've had a turntable for many years - was very good to have indeed! (As was the arm weight / compliance info) The V15 IV cartridge has a built-in brush, which collects dust from the surface of the record, but is said to mainly function as a stabilizer. I wonder if it's such a good idea to use it - that feature doesn't seem to be common nowadays, if it ever was.

All suggestions duly noted! Thanks! I haven't seen any of the Smithsonian sets around here, allthough they seem to be something like what I'm looking for. Anyway, I'll probably put together one or two CDRs from my own collection - of course including informative liner notes penned by myself! Regarding the issue with old vs. new recordings, you nailed it, Dan! And, as you said, something contemporary at the end is a good idea too! I've gotten a lot of good suggestions here - thanks everyone! I'm getting started... as soon as I've stopped playing with my new turntable, that is!

Since last week I'm spending the evenings listening to loads of LPs on the turntable I just got. I had a deal on a Thorens TD 160 worked out when I stumbled across a TD 125 MK II with an SME tonearm in close to perfect condition - I didn't hesitate long since the price was about 130 Euros. The cartridge is a Shure V15 IV, and while the sound reproduction is absolutely perfect I'm thinking of getting a new stylus since I don't know the mileage of the old one. It appears that Shure is no longer manufacturing this stylus, allthough some dealers still seem to have a couple in stock. One shop I spoke with asked an unbeleivable 330 Euros for a replacement stylus! The best deal I've found on a Shure stylus is 155 Euros. Is it worth the money? A non-original stylus for the Shure pickup made by Huco, Switzerland (I've no idea of their reputation) can be had for about 50 Euros - a better deal or not? Is it at all necessary to switch the stylus when the old one sounds good?

Is #10 still not taken? In that case.... I'll sign for it!

There have been advances in digital audio technology since the 80s. You have probably heard that the sound of many of the early CD releases in the 80s were accused of 'harshness'. You have a point that how well the job was done matters more than when it was done. However, if a remastering was done in, say, the mid 80s, there are all chances you could get a better result if it was done today, given that the master tapes haven't aged too much. Besides, many remastering jobs in the beginning of the CD era were, according to some speculations, put together in a haste to get CDs out fast, without too much care.

What jazz tunes/recordings would you consider as the most "important"? The question is a bit imprecise, but I'll try to elaborate: My girlfriend has never been that much interested in jazz. In fact - she's not interested at all. She likes music, but not improvised jazz, that's all. And I've long since given up trying to "covert"/introduce her to jazz, because it seems rather pointless to try to make someone to listen to a kind of music he or she doesn't really want to hear. She is accepting my great interest in jazz, and I'm accepting that she rather listens to other kinds of music (should I say more "popular" kinds). However, she would like to know more about jazz on a more "intellectual" level, such as important artists and recordings, so she has asked me to compile a CD as a first introduction to jazz in general. Naturally I want to cover several eras, but I want to avoid more extreme kinds of jazz, like avant-gard, or even post-Atlantic Coltrane, because I know she wouldn't even listen to it. Probably the collection will be cenetered around the period of, say 1940s to 1970s So, what should I include? I know it's an impossible question, but I would appreciate a few suggestions. So far I have two titles ready: 'So What' and 'Take Five'...

Somehow I missed this thread! I fully agree with Dan's suggestions, as well as the idea that the compiler should have total freedom when it comes to selection of material.

Just so this kind of deal wouldn't pass me by again, I was determined to read all the ads very closely. Yesterday again I spotted something I couldn't believe. A Luxman LV-105 tube amp and T-105 tuner - for 55 Euros!!! I've now realized that ads are free if the price is up to 500 Swedish Kronor, which is about 55 Euros, and that people who don't know how much the stuff they're offering is worth is asking for that price just so that they won't have to pay for the ad. When I finally got in touch with the seller I learned that the equipment was sold early yesterday morning. Now, I really don't need a new amp, so perhaps I should stop reading those ads...

I believe Chris partially answered this in a post in the Weinstock thread:

I hope you will adapt back to normal from our depraved European lifestyle without problems, and that you'll be back here at the board in a matter of time! Good luck, Erik!

I've been using a Technics SL-1210 for ten years, but I'm just about to get a - guess what - Thorens TD 160!!! I've been thinking of getting a Thorens for some time now; they can sometimes even be found very cheap here. Just yeasterday I spotted an incredible ad in my morning newspaper: someone was offering a complete stereo (including amp, tuner, cassette deck, speakers AND a Thorens turntable) for 50 Euros! An elderly woman told me on the phone that it was all gone of course; the ad had been in the paper the day before too, Sunday... I was initially set to find a TD 125, mainly because of the nice design. However they appear to be rare over here so now I'm getting a TD 160 instead. I'm actually trading a wrecked drum kit I used up to my early teens for the Thorens, which a friend of mine found on a dump! Incredibly, it's working fine, but I think I will let some HiFi look at it before I'm playing any rarities. The rest of the setup is: Receiver: Harman Kardon 930 (from 1973) CD player: Harman Kardon HD 7325 (1994) MD deck: Sony MDS-JE 530 (2000) Speakers: Jamo CL 25 (1992) Headphones: Grado SR 60 (2000) I stored away my cassette deck a year ago (a 70s Akai) because I never used it. Actually I very rarely use the MD deck; mainly for recordings from radio. When I feel I can afford it, I will probably invest in a new CD player with burning capabilities. The next thing to upgrade should probably be the speakers. I tried a few years ago, but found myself dissatisfied with the sound of all speakers I could afford (in the price range 500-600 Euro). Jamo does not have such a good reputation from what I've heard, but I still thought they sounded better than the Dynaudios people were recommending me. Someone suggested that it was because I had gotten so used to the sound of my inferior speakers... Anyway I'm happy with them for the time being. I happened to get into a HiFi store as someone was testing a tube amp once (incidentally by playing the Duke Ellington Columbia LP 'Jazz Party in Stereo'), so I know how a really good setup can sound, but I don't let the shortcomings of my system distract from the music.

The only time Mosaic has left out anything from original LP releases in a "complete" set?

Courtesy of Lon, I would describe this whole matter as a bit "internetish".

My suggestion in that category: Joe Henderson's 'Punjab'. A great tune, which (to my knowledge) have not been done without horns. What a great idea this is! Is it possible to pre-order?