John L

If I am not mistaken, one of the tapes that was used for the release of the complete Rockland Palace concert (Jazz Classics CD-JZCL-5014) supposedly originated with Chan. Of course, it could have been a pirated second hand copy.

If you would like to hear an additional bit of hyperbole from a Billie/Pres nut, I would say that this may very well be the best box set of music available.

I think that the latest remasters of the Billie Holiday Columbia recordings are miraculous. It is like night and day with all previous releases. You may find fault with the brightness or other specific qualities, but there is no denying that the music is present in a way that it never was in the past. Billie and Pres are brought closer to you.

Now that would have been kinky.

Yes, you have to buy no less than 3 of them.

Good picks, people, although a bit of bluenotecentricitity is shinning through. Blue Note cranked out some gems. But when it came to soul, it was Prestige that really knew how to let the chitlins just simmer in their own juice. Some of the tastiest: Gene Ammons: Angel Eyes, Jug, Up Tight, etc., etc., etc. Jack McDuff: Live! Tough Duff, The Honeydripper Jimmy Forrest: Out of the Forrest, Most Much Willis Jackson: Please Mr. Jackson Arnett Cobb: Blow, Arnett, Blow, Party Time Eddie Lockjaw Davis: ALL the Cookbooks. Every damn one of them. King Curtis: The New Scene of King Curtis, Soul Meeting Getting Back to Blue Note, you can't be without all of the Stanely Turrentine/Jimmy Smith collaborations: Back at the Chicken Shack, Midnight Special, Prayer Meeting. I'm getting hungry just typing this.

Well, yes, except not in that order. They took the name "Art Ensemble of Chicago" in Paris as a quartet before Moye joined. They made several albums in Paris as a quartet. Chuck writes on the cover of his box that the name "Art Ensemble" dates back to a December, 1966 concert. As I understand (correct me if I'm wrong, somebody), the original Art Ensemble was also a quartet but with drums (Philip Wilson) and without Jarman. That is the group that plays on the first "basement tapes" from 1967 in the box set.

Well hell, Trane even tried to take composer credit for "Saturn!"

Great thread, people! Nice stories all around. Yes, the AEC were very special live. I had the fortune to see them once in the 80s and once in the 90s. Are there any good videos around of vintage concerts? Somebody must have had the sense to capture the whole deal live at least once.

It sounds like the time is ripe for you to order one of the few remaining box sets from Chuck Nessa. If you like the AEC, you won't regret it. This is the foundation, and there is no duplication with what you have.

A good-sounding prelude to a bad train wreck or a bad sounding prelude to a good train wreck? I've never heard it myself, but I am intrigued.

I myself find the "Brotzmann Plays For Lovers" compilation really drives the ladies wild. I don't know that one. I only have "Brotzmann plays for boar fuckers."

Well, from his knowledge that there were three autopsies after Bird's death, I assume that Dr. Progresso must have performed the third, where chips from Blakey's drumstick were found in Parker's brain. More seriously, that text is weird. Other than the Blakey remarks, everything resembles the usual truncated Bird bio. Furthermore, the Blakey remarks are stated in passing as if they are obvious fact and not subject to any speculation at all. I wonder if Blakey's family knows about this? If I were Blakey's kin, I would try to get it removed.

I assume that this is different than the "Antwerpen" concert from around the same time that has been released on Jazzman?

John, the 4CD box "At Birdland 1950-1951 Volume 1" (got it recently) was also released as two 2CD sets, as far as I know. So maybe you saw volume two of this? ubu Yes, that must be it. I must have somehow confused the second one with the volume 2.

I was fairly sure that I saw a volume 2 in Europe. But I could be wrong. I own the Charly myself. Note: the Cafe Society tracks are not on the Charly Birdland box, but they can be found on quite a number of other reissues.

There is a volume 2 of the Ember set. There is also a an over 90% overlap between the Ember sets and the Charly. If I am not mistaken, the two Ember sets contain everything on the Charly and a couple more obscure sessions. If you already have Ember vol. 1, you should look for volume 2.

James Booker could flat out play. There were a number of great individual New Orleans R&B pianists. Booker was the real virtuoso of the bunch. He could do what everyone else did and more. There are several CDs of his around. The one on Rounder, for example, is excellent: "New Orleans: Piano Wizard: Live!"

Shrdlu: I reminded you of Hitler? Well, I guess that it could have been worse. I could have reminded you of... ...uh... ...mmm... two Hitlers?

I sincerely hope that they don't hit us up with the "Complete Last Sessions" 7-cd box set with all the outakes and false starts due to Horace's fragility. That would be a terrible way to be set back another big head 100.

This is a very interesting thread with a lot of thought-provoking comments. Miles during these years becomes a personal thing. It is still very hard to give an objective assessment as to where all of this astonishing electric music stands relative to the earlier triumphs. As a personal thing, I enjoy Miles immensely through about the time that the Jack Johnson box ends. When Miles got into the wah wahs, the thick multiple guitar backdrop, and added percussion, and when the groove itself seemed to become the focus, as opposed to Miles blowing the blues over a funky backbeat (i.e. Jack Johnson), my soul begins to abandon ship. On the Corner, In Concert, Agartha, Pangaea, and Dark Mangus may be great masterworks. But they will never mean as much to me personally as most of the rest of Miles' discography, including even the highly uneven results of his last decade.

I see where you're coming from. At any rate, even if the music is a big disappointment, Horace Silver, like Max Roach, will be remembered for all of the other great records that he made. Only anal retentive fanatics like us will go after the LAST ALBUM at any cost regardless of the content.

Jim: Sorry if I misinterpreted you. I would still say that your "cynical" story is rather unlikely. There just isn't that much money in jazz reissues these days, particularly post-1970s music. A more likely story (it would seem to me) is that they were interested in bringing more attention and prestige to their label from jazz fans. At any rate, the question of why they gave Horace Silver a deal shouldn't necessarily matter from the musical point of view. The label seems to have a genuine interest in jazz, and most likely did not try to manipulate what Horace did. At this stage of his career, I also doubt that Horace would put up with any crap that compromises his artistic control. I think that the ball was most likely in Horace's court. Let's hear what he did with it.

I wouldn't worry too much about Horace getting "exploited" at this point. The market that you are describing is so thin that I don't think anybody in the record business whould think of basing a money-making strategy on it. Even the rights to the classic Sliver Blue Notes would not put much money in your pocket at this point. The big question in my head is does Horace still have it? I found the last two albums to be quite dull, although the one before that (Hard Bop Grandpop) had some nice moments (IMO).