John L

In my opinion, Some of the very best Gonzalves is on the Duke Ellington private sessions box. That 8-CD box used to sell for an outrageously low price of some something like $25. I don't know if it is still around. But any Gonzalves fan should make a serious effort to seek it out. Mex is even featured on tracks that are usually Hodges vehicles, for example on my favorite Ellington composition: In a Sentimental Mood.

Paul: Part my problem might be that I tend to enjoy Waldron more when he is playing off of a rhythm section. Of the Lacy/Waldron collaborations that I know of, One Upmanship is probably my favorite. In general, I think that what they recorded together on Enja is quite good. Lacy's early album with Waldron, "Reflections," is nice as well. The "Super Quartet at Sweet Basil," is also good, if not spectacular (IMO). John

Is that to say: "just invent melody, any melody, and the harmony will follow in step?" While any musician can *try* to forget about harmonic constraints on what they are doing, their ears often confine them to the familiar, to what they have been hearing their whole lives. Steps away from that are usually very conscious and deliberate. But it is like Ornette grew up part time on another planet. He combines the blues from this planet with a sense of melodic development from somewhere else entirely. He doesn't take deliberate steps outwards. He lives and breathes out there.

Well, I guess I will have to ask Andrew about it next time that I get the chance.

I'm a fan of Waldron and Lacy and I have these disks. For some strange reason, I have never been as fond of them as I am of many of their other collaborations.

The only one from that list that I have read is Tom Piazza. I certainly don't remember any such reference regarding Albert Ayler. Piazza's "noble savage" point was directed against white critics who he believes don't like Wynton Marsalis because Marsalis refuses play that role, and instead beats them at their own game. Such a comment form Gioia would surprise me too, given the generally positive write-up that Ayler got in his History of Jazz book. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised to hear Stanley Crouch say something like that. After all, Crouch calls white people who like Public Enemy "masochists."

Strange, but Judgement has never really clicked with me. I like it, just don't love it. Black Fire, Smokestack, Compulsion (and, of course, Point of Departure) are probably my favorites. I have been really enjoying Blue Black lately. I had never heard it before until last month.

Not a recording, but there exists that great photo of Monk and Mingus playing with Roy Haynes behind Bird. Those were the days.

Cassandra and Mondavi Cabernet? Sign me up, please.

Andrew Hill and Joe Henderson had a rare musical communication, as evidenced by the extraordinary music that they made together at Blue Note. In the liner notes to Black Fire, Hill emphasizes the degree to which he and Joe Henderson understand each other musically and like playing together. Given this fact, I am a bit puzzled as to why they never recorded together after 1970, particularly as they both moved to Nothern California around the same time. Is there any story here? Did they have some sort of fall out?

This got strange distribution in the US. I was waiting for it to appear in the stores, and then just gave up and ordered it. It turned out to be a painless process.

I have this on a 1989 CD released by the French Jazz Anthology label. Good music!

David: That sounds like it might have been an enjoyable concert.

Before you run out and by the Five Spot disks, STOP! Buy the complete Eric Dolphy on Prestige instead. This box has all the Five Spot recordings and much, much more truly exceptional music at a budget price, in fact only roughly twice what you would pay to get the Five Spot music on three single 30-minute disks. It is one of the best boxes of music in existence. But don't take my word for it. Just listen to all of my witnesses who will post below.

Yes, Earl King was a real voice in the blues, R&B, and the New Orleans sound. We won't be able to replace him anytime soon. RIP

Both of the Sonny Simmons disks on ESP are excellent. The Lowell Davidson disk is a unique sort of cult classic.

David: I am sure that you and I crossed pathes in the 70s. I would never miss Dex at the Keystone. I always got there nice and early to get the table right in front. John

To think that Ben could still theoretically be with us...

I just heard Alegria for the first time yesterday. This is a big winner for me, easily my favorite Shorter album in a long time. What a delight to hear such fresh-sounding compositions and playing coming from an elder statesman who is smack in the tradition! Those very first howls on the soprano let you know right away that something really NEW is coming. Beautiful music all the way around. Wayne Shorter is now more than just a living legend. He is a living legend alive! Jazz has been around so long that it needs to get shorter!

Jim: I know what you mean. I love the blues so much that I am often torn between wanting younger musicians to immerse themselves more in the blues and the nagging thought that their most successful path for artistic development probably lies elsewhere. Alexander: I find your statement a bit too strong. I don't agree that hip hop has only a superficial connection to the blues. In some hip hop, you hear quite a strong connection, in fact. "Arrested Development" is one example. Even some of Dr. Dre's mixes, like "No Diggity, No Doubt" for Blackstreet, have quite a strong blues feeling But I agree with the qualitative point that R&B appears to be in the process of dropping the "B." The connection between popular African American music and the blues is weakening progressively. It is interesting that this phenomenon has also opened up the first really strong generation gap in African American popular music. In general, middle-aged African Americans still have a much stronger attachment to blues-based music.

Jim: I hear where you are coming from. But the way that I think of the blues is a bit different. Certainly, it goes far beyond style. I nevertheless consider the blues to be a specific language, a medium, a way of communication, that is of time and place. You speak the language or you don't. Even if you do speak the language, there is often a noticable difference between a native speaker and a Johnny-come-lately. Beethoven expressed through music plenty of the deeply human and spiritual qualities that you associate with the blues in your posts. But Beethoven was not the blues, at least not in the way that I define "blues." He didn't speak that language. As Bev is pointing out, it is not necessary to speak "blues" in order to create deep music. That is the sense in which I interpret Harris. The language is changing, and it is evolving farther from what is commonly associated with the "blues." Here, ironically, I think that Harris actually echoes your concerns. For him, going back and playing in the style of old blues would be superficial. As you say, it would be a "style" and nothing more. He needs to make statements in *his* language. BTW: I have always heard a lot of blues in Braxton. Growing up in Chicago when he did, it would be hard to get rid of them.

This is a very interesting discussion. Myself, I am extremely attached to the blues. (I don't want to say that the blues have attached themselves to me. At least I hope that it is the other way around!) My primary attachment to jazz is also through the blues. With the younger generation, it sounds like in some discussions that they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they reject the deep bluesy stuff as something not of their time and place, the music will be hollow, as blues is at the essence of most great jazz. If they try to play the deep bluesy stuff, they will be playing music not of their time and place, and therefore it will be hollow. Despite my personal love of the blues, I actually find myself largely in agreement with Stefon and Bev. The younger musicians have to take only that part of the blues tradition that they can feel as "theirs" and move on. The 20th century was the blue century. It is already clear that the 21st century will be something else. What? That has yet to be decided.

Hank Jones is class personified! This thread is a nice complement to the Lucky Thompson thread. Thompson and Jones always sounded fantastic together on those Prestige recordings. Another nice recent one (there are so many) is the early-90s trio date on Storyville with Mads Vinding and Al Foster. I often play Hank Jones trio dates when guests are over. They have such a warm and inviting feeling about them. I avoid this Storyville date, however, because I always end up so wrapped up in the music that I risk offending the guests.

I thought that it was more complicated in that the body needs various types of complex proteins, all of which are in meat and dairy. A certain type of bean with rice might give you one of them, but then you would need to make sure and mix it up with some different kinds of beans or peas or whatever to get the other complex proteins on different days. Then there is the one vitamin (Is it B12?) that you can't get outside of meat and dairy, and therefore need to swallow as a pill or inject with a needle... Maybe this is all an exaggeration. I tried to read up on this shit once and got scared. The book was written to convince you to become one of them. It had the opposite effect on me. I'll stick to my baby backs, even if it means an earlier grave.

I've been on the fence over this one. It *is* expensive. If I didn't already have all of the Pres, Bird, and many other of the best individual concerts, I would take the plunge right away. Maybe it will show up somewhere used and cheap one of these days.