danasgoodstuff

Just so happens that the only hamilton i own (I think, sometimes I forget just what I own) is the abovementioned Duke R. Swing album. Since posting above i pulled it out just to make sure and, to not mix metaphors, I found it reasonably fluent in that particulart proto-R&B idiom, if not quite native speaker fluent, but I didn't find that he had anything particularly interesting to say. I'll have to find some Eric Alexander to check out and get back to y'all. There is, of course, nothing at all srong with a jazz player coming out of R&B (of any era), and there are plenty of guys out there who show those roots off 'in a good way' in a jazz context. But there definately is a certain strain of jazz fan/critic/promoter for whom that would be v. much a bad thing--downbeat from back in the day is full of condecending jibes re 'honkers & screamers'. There's a shole world of possible legit expression twixt Warne Marsh and Jay McNeely; Red Holloway is one guy who straddles that particular fence without getting hung up on it (and we all know how painful that can be)...

How good is it? How deep is the ocean/how wide is the sky?

To me, bass is a role not an instrument. So, Adrian Rollini (bass sax) and Howard Johnson (tuba) are bass players but Scott LaFaro (acoustic bass viol) and Jaco Patorious (electric bass guitar) are not, as a general rule at least. Not that Jaco and Scotty weren't great, but most of what they did wasn't really much of a base(sic), IMHO.

Welcome Gary, good work Dan!

Far be it from me to sidetrack a thread, BUT I've long thought that although generation to generation misunderstanding obviously has a down side, that in practical terms it also has an up side, i.e. that misunderstanding what the peoples before you were doing is the engine driving stylistic change. to lokk at it through the other end of the telescope, in order to understand the 'old folks' stuff perfectly you'd have to be them and you ain't, so...

First, I'm glad I waited a day to post again:the temperture's come down a bit to where a more productive exchange of ideas can take place. For me this isn't really about Eric Alexander or Scott Hamilton, nor is it about whether players should use elements of past styles or be influenced by them. Everyone does that, to a greater or lesser degree, even armstrong, Lester and Bird. I don't think anyone here (Dan, Kevin, etc.) would make a straw man argument on purpose and I guess I can see how if they felt their personal taste were being attacked they might react as they did. Not to speak for anyone (Larry, Jim, etc.), but for me what this is about is this: Of course everyone should play in whatever style (from whatever era) speaks to them, but (like so much in life) there's a right and a wrong way(s) to do it. To try a different analogy: the right way would be like someone who peppers their speach with Biblical and Shakespearean allusions, but who makes their own points in their own style; the wrong way would be more like high schoolers who launch into their favorite bits of Monty Python whether the've really got anything to do with the conversation or not. To give examples: I think Osby has something real and personal going on, but I find J. Redman and J. Carter only intermittantly convincing. Or, to go further afield, I think Merle Hagard is one soulful mofo despite having Lefty Frizell's imprint all over his vocal chords, but I am largely unmoved by Prince's appropriation of Sly's thang. And I find W. Houston and what's-her-name (that Glitter girl)'s (over)use of melisma just grotesque, but I still love Sam Cooke and Clyde Mcphatter and Arron Neville (who draws heavily on both). Larry: I can see why you dropped the 'spread your legs' bit, it was likely to distract more than enlighten but I kinda liked it, perhaps because it's exactly the sort of thing I would have said/written when I was younger. In that spirit, I decided to drop the metaphor I was gonna use about how some peoples' playing reminds me of certain preachers who jump up and down yelling "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus" without being v. Christlike... Hope I've added more light than heat here.

It's hard to know what to add to what's already been said (here and elsewhere) re Elvin, but let me say this: One of the thing s I dig most about him is that yes, he was a powerful, complex force of nature, but he was also a sensitive guy who could soft, subtle and simple if that's what the musdic at hand called for--that's the mark of a true master, being able and willing to do whatever was necessary to further the music as a whole.

alexander, Much as I like Ogden's, I like their earlier work even more--it's like the My Generation era Who made a bunch more records (OK, not quite, but almost). I've read that there's a way to get all the Mariot (the guy, not the Hotel) era stuffs on two boxes, but I just can't remember which ones (same prob with the Move and the Heptones)...any help?

Anyone else here see the Faces live? I hitch-hiked from Saskatoon to Edmonton (by way of Calgary) to see them over spring break in high school, got caught in a snow storm, got an ear infection, got high on prescription meds, almost got picked up by two girls in North Battleford on the way home... All in all, it was well worth it.

Dan, Modified post to reflect that your later post and Kevin's, cranky though they are, do at least attempt to address the specifics of Larry's argument(s). And since he was quoting himself, he may v. well have heard more of Hamilton and/or Alexander by now--whether he heard any more in them is another matter. For the record, I've heard only a little of either and don't have any strong fellings one way or the other...but I do feel that way (the Kart/Sngry way) about many neo-soul recordings, including some by guys who were around back in the day. Who was it (Larry?) who said (about Murray?) 'It's like he starts a romantic ballad by yelling "spread your legs"'? Feeling much less grumpy, hope you are too, Dana

Dan, Please try reading Larry's post more carefully: there is so much more to it than just 'I don't like x'. To put it bluntly, thought provoking posts like Larry's are why I participate in this forum; merely grumpy ones like yours [the short, "diarhea of the mouth" one] are not. Maybe you just got up on the wrong side this morning... Dana

It's actually "Five Guys...", which makes more sense but I just assumed it was some kinda inside joke. The full track list is at www.the-faces.com/5guys.htm. Looks good but I still think Micky Waller (drummer on Rod's solo records) was who Petey should've got for the Who...

Thought y'all might be interested that www.downbeat.com currectly has an interview with the man from 1964, at the height of his infatuation with Coltrane's playing. despite his attempts during this period and post-comeback to 'let it all hang out', I agree that Pepper remained v. tightly wound.

'Post-modernism' is, indeed, a can o' worms, but not nearly as bad as 'deconstructionism'. Wish I could add something to this conversation as cogent as Larry & Joe; I'll have to think harder...

I wasn't sure whether to post this in Box Sets, Reissues, or here; or, for that matter, whether anyone here would be inhterested. But, this 4cd's worth should be out in June and is apparently heavy on the previously unissued, live and otherwise rare. My feeling is that this was a great band, whose excellence was somewhat masked by the odd arrangement with Rod's ongoing solo career on another label stealing their thunder and some of their best performances. That and hteir own inebriated inability to quite get it together 100%. Nonetheless, this could be great, or a big stinking mess. I would have prefered an overall approach including the Small/Marriot years, but that's what CDRs are for... I read about this on www.icemagazine.com, but they don't have a full contents listing online. Rhino doesn't have anything on their site, perhaps because the date's been kicked back at least once...

Count me among those who love Miss D. Who was it said 'she makes most of the others sound like little girls'? (and not just when she sang stuff like "he thrills me when he drills me", hey it's about her dentist...yeah, right). Love that, like Elvis and Ray, she "sang all kinds".

Opinions on BN's web site re this session are deeply divided, and the breaking point seems to be (not surprisingly) Motion's drumming. Kinda makes me want to hear it, but hear it first (before buying)...

Sundog, For S&D check out the Rhino dbl Sweat & Soul, it's w/in a couple of tracks of perfect. And while we're discussing Sam Moore and David Prater, was there ever an act that was as big for as short a time? ("Hold On" to "Thank You" is about 2 years...) Back on topic, Borders is having a buy 3, get the next one free sale so I'll have to think about what I want...

Oh, my goodness... The only hard question is do I sell my copy of One For One now or wait to make sure, oh never mind it's the only way I've got that other session (mentioned above). I think I can live with this small duplication...

Just returned from driving to Saskatchewan from Oregon (and back): blowing snow in Montana on the way there, blowing snow, hail and no visability in Alberta (Crowsnest pass) on the way back. Late April/early May is too early to cross the Rockies but my 47 yr old buddy was getting married for the first time so I had to go!

Shawn, Could that Atlantic album perhaps be Soul Song (which includes a stomping rendition of Lowman Pauling's "Think")?

tenor sax is a B flat instrument

I'm not as deep into Brasilian music as many here, but AS A STARTING POINT I'd reccomend the soundtrack to the film Black Orpheus (SP?). Lovely music by Bonfa, Jobim, etc. It was instrumental in spreading the word beyond Brasil and includes some earlier samba style(s) so you can hear what what was Nova about the Bossa... Now if someone would do a Brasil/celtic hybrid we could call it Bossa Nova Scotia!

I think that would mean it was named long after it was recorded, a not uncommon occurence for jazz instrumentals. And yeah, I think it fits, in a nicely nonobvious sort of way. Pity they didn't ever work together...

Perhaps I'll have to give it another go...