The Magnificent Goldberg

My gut feeling is that the mortgage business over here doesn't have the same kind of dodgy products that you have over there. I don't have the feeling that there are hordes of mortgagees here who were persuaded by cheapo introductory offers to undertake more than they could handle when the intro period ended. I could be wrong - and it could be that Northern Rock (who don't to my knowledge operate in my area) might be the main purveyors of such products. But I reckon if that were the case, it would be all over the news here - and it ain't. MG

TTK, call me superficial! I think the problem is that for the past forty years the major songwriters have been "singer-songwriters". The problem with that is that for singers they are pretty good songwriters, and for songwriters they are pretty good singers. But together they total mediocrity in both of what they do. When you think of the great songwriters from 1930 to 1960, how many could sing or otherwise entertain? edit for typo I think there's something in the proliferation of singer/songwriters in the pop/rock area. But it doesn't seem to hold good in the R&B/Soul/Funk area, where I think you do get good performers who can also write good songs - anywhere from Percy to Curtis Mayfield to James Brown to Smokey Robinson/Wonder/Gaye/Ritchie to Prince. (And a lot of their stuff relates to jazz quite well, I think.) When I was thinking about this yesterday, it occurred to me that, in my collection, there are loads of popular songs jazz musicians have done, but only one or two each (eg I have only two recordings of Lionel Ritchie's "Endless love"). I think there is a lot more music to choose from in the period since the sixties, than was the case in the thirties/forties/fifties. And probably the same proportion of it is good. In addition, in the earlier period, there was only one basic kind of music that was popular - and it was kind of jazzish, if not always actually jazz. So instead of the scene being dominated by a couple of dozen top (jazz-influenced?) songwriters, and everybody kind of getting behind them, we have a much more fragmented music scene with all kinds of stuff becoming popular. MG

Here come the poor taste, Doo Wop, remark. RIP BIP MG

Covering, as Chris, Harold and I define it, still goes on. I have to admit, it's hard for me to find contemporary examples because I'm not too interested in what's a hit record any more. But here's an except from Wikipedia's entry on Los Del Rio's "Macarena", which was such an obvious candidate that I didn't think it was even possible that it wouldn't have been covered. MG PS should have put in a link to the article. Here 'tis (no sammich). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macarena_(song)

Well, the reason I have a problem with it is because it leaves a meaning without a word to express it. When I want to describe the operation of recording a new song, of obvious hit potential, by a different artist, specifically in order to steal sales from the original recording, I no longer have a word that means precisely that. Because the word that DID mean precisely that has been used for something related but so common and innocuous that it lacks impact in relation to the specific meaning, which is truly worthy of being singled out as a practice that should be greatly deprecated. MG Whatever practice you're describing...I don't think really happens in this day and age anymore. Maybe it happened 50 years ago. I think that, with a bit of research, I can probably find some more recent examples than the 1973 one I mentioned. It's bedtime now, however. G'nite. MG

Yes, as GAR says, "What'd I say" is another tune that's been done by quite a few jazz musicians and doesn't fit the general canon of what Rooster Ties is after - songs that came "after the strongest influence of musical theater tunes (from "musicals"), or other similar styles that owe a greater degree of allegiance with styles and forms from the 50's." It just happens to date from 1959 so missing his somewhat arbitrary cut-off date. But that sone is in the spirit of what he's looking for. So are People get ready (1965) A change is gonna come (1965) High heel sneakers (1964) Ain't that peculiar (1964) Lonely Avenue (1956) all of which I think should qualify. "On Broadway" is a difficult one - a true product of the Brill Building. MG

Well -- there is no direct connection between Northern Rock and dodgy US mortgages. However, Northern Rock engaged in securitization of (British, as far as I know) mortgages and financial institutions in the US engaged in securitization of (mostly American) mortgages. Guy But this seems to indicate that the problem wasn't with the mortgages themselves but with the funds NR used to fund them. MG

You may well be right, but maybe from the points of view of the characters (and of a lot of people in the South then), there were no Civil Rights if you weren't white, there was no such thing as white-on-black racial injustice, and turbulant social change is a threat to be either denied or fought against. I lived in Huntsville, Alabama iin 1965-67, and there were still two water fountains ('white' and 'colored') and three bathrooms ('men', 'women' and 'colored') in some of the local places, and crosses were burnt on the hill every Friday night. And "Eve of Destruction" was banned where I lived, even though it was a #1 song nationally. I never heard it until I visited the north in the summer. "Ode to Billie Joe" never says WHAT was going on, so purposefully leaves itself open to any number of interpretations. That's some of what was so wondrous about it. In the light of what you've said, it seems that, had she been more obvious about it, the record might have been banned. MG

I don't believe it was limited to white artists recording songs by black artists. White artists covered material by other white artists. And black artists also did covers. To give an illustration of this, in 1973 Bob Shad assembled a bunch of black jazz musicians (Afrique) to record a cover of Manu Dibango's "Soul makossa", which had been a hit across Europe. And both singles were simultaneous hits. It's highly probable that Dibango's version would have sold a lot more, had Afrique's version not been around. An area in which covers were endemic was in Britain, perhaps generally in Europe though I can't be sure of that, where American hits (by black or white artists) were routinely covered by British acts and it was (usually) the British versions that were the hits. Only very occasionally did the cover version improve on or at least develop the original; Johnny Dankworth's hit version of "African waltz" is actually much groovier to dance to than Cannonball's (but it does lack Cannonball ). MG

Well, the reason I have a problem with it is because it leaves a meaning without a word to express it. When I want to describe the operation of recording a new song, of obvious hit potential, by a different artist, specifically in order to steal sales from the original recording, I no longer have a word that means precisely that. Because the word that DID mean precisely that has been used for something related but so common and innocuous that it lacks impact in relation to the specific meaning, which is truly worthy of being singled out as a practice that should be greatly deprecated. MG

My Mum liked Perry Como, but this is going a bit too far, Jim. I know you're only trying to keep at the front of the posts list... MG No man, I like those songs/records. Really, and it is just that simple. I heard them as a kid, liked them then, and have found no good reason, compelling or otherwise, to stop liking them. Yeah, I know - Perry Como, whitebread sweaterboy, middle class pablum, etc etc etc, but oh well about all that. That's sociology, not music. The records and the songs still please me, not profoundly or deeply or anything Artistically Valid, but oh well about all that too. If I had a choice between being in a room full of people who underthink shit vs a room full of those who overthink shit, I honestly don't know which room I would take. Probably the underthinkers, if only for the uncomplicated sex. But either way... damn. Sorry, I was trying to be funny and keep a straight face... MG

Is this post of the year? MG

Well, the ones that didn't get ripped off by the other bloated, self-indulgent capitalist pigs of the rankest variety, who run the record industry probably are. MG

Captain Kirk Mr Spock Dr Spock

My Mum liked Perry Como, but this is going a bit too far, Jim. I know you're only trying to keep at the front of the posts list... MG

It's quite hard to think of song when you hven't got them in a searchable database. Here are some I've been able to think of in my collection. Some I know I have mre versions of but can't think of them just at present. Ode to Billie Joe - Jimmy McGriff, King Curtis, Lou Donaldson, lots more see Dan Gould’s thread. When a man loves a woman – Scott/Turrentine (Soul song), Larkin/Delegates, H Crawford, Dan Papaila, Eddie Harris, Purdie, S Scott (A walkin’ thing), H Person. Inner city blues – Grover Washington, Reuben Wilson, Maceo Parker, others Ain’t no sunshine – Grover Washington, Willis Jackson, Boogaloo Joe Jones, others Rock Steady – J H Smith, Kynard, others Theme from Shaft – Purdie, McGriff, others People make the world go round – Johnny Lytle, Ramon Morris, Charles Williams, others What’s going on – Les McCann, McGriff, Ammons, J H Smith, Willis Jackson, Houston Person, Everette Harp It’s your thing – McGriff, Lou Donaldson, Shirley Scott All in love is fair – Criss, Hank Crawford, Harlem Art Ensemble, H Person Until it’s time for you to go – Rusty Bryant, H Person, G Washington Something – S Scott, Ammons, Fathead, Maceo Parker, G Freeman, Kynard, Clarence Wheeler Knock on wood – Reuben Wilson, J H Smith, Maceo, H Mann 25 Miles – Reuben Wilson, Dr L Smith, Bill Doggett Sunny – H Mann, Turrentine, Charlie Brown, McDuff/Newman, McCann, Holmes, J & Papa de Francesco, Papa was a rolling stone – H Mann, Ammons others Superstition – Leon Spencer, Purdie, Kynard, S Scott, J Ponder You’ve got it bad girl – Kynard, H Crawford, Boogaloo Joe Jones, Holmes Trouble man – Pucho & LSB, R Wilson, G Washington Jr, L Spencer Where is the love – Houston Person, Charles Williams, G Washington Jr, J Lytle Mercy mercy me (the ecology) – Leon Spencer, G Washington Jr, R Wilson, others Summer breeze – Kynard, Caesar Frazier, others Killing me softly with his song – Rusty Bryant, Eric Gale, Maynard Parker, others Everything must change – David Newman, Holmes, G Benson, J Lytle, A Prysock, others Just the way you are – G Green, H Crawford, G Washington Jr, Willis Jackson, McCann We’ve only just begun – Grant Green, Clarence Wheeler, R Wilson, Earland Evergreen – Blue Mitchell, H Crawford, Willis Jackson Watch what happens – Johnny Lytle, Wynton Kelly, Billy Butler, H Vick, S Turrentine Close to you – Leon Spencer, H Person, Ponder MG

Big enough in Nebraska, by the looks of it. It also looks like that's his ONLY thing. MG

MG

Yes, you ditch the stuff you DON'T like, whatever it happens to be. If you're saying that the situation in America is that people don't have the opportunity (or maybe the motivation) to find what they DO like until after they're well past 13, and that what they THINK they like at 13 they may turn out not to like at all, well, OK. MG

Mine's on Ekapa... never saw a Vol.2 of this one, strangely. Nor have I. I strongly suspect there wasn't one. MG My copy says Ekapa/Blackhawk. Does your copy have Blackhawk on the label too? If not, I wonder if mine is a reissue on the Blackhawk label. I've never seen a vol.2 either. Er (blush) mine was taped off the local library copy, which was Ekapa 004. Goodness knows how they got an original over here... MG

Well, it wasn't a wasteland, but "their records were pap" and it wasn't R&R. As a minimum, the British groups were aware of themselves as being the equivalents of people like Presley; white singers/musicians reviving the black music they'd heard as fans a few years (or months) earlier. I DO agree that the years (and not many) spent honing their skills (cough, cough) in the clubs didn't do many of them much good. The best of them - Cliff Bennett & the Rebel Rousers, the Yardbirds, Manfred Mann - were a cut above pub bands; the rest were good enough to accompany a few beers. MG

Looks like this album has not made it to CD yet! 'Baby Sax'? some people are really weird It's 'Heavy Sax'.......although CD Universe and others still have it incorrectly listed. Much better title - though I don't see what's wrong with "House warming". MG

Oh, and let ME add, by the way, that I'm not defending the music of Bad Plus or Iverson - never heard it; never likely to. (Just nitpicking at Clem.) MG

If what you're saying, Clem, is that I was lucky enough to be young when Fats (and Little Richard, and Jerry Lee and Bo and a few others) were around and in their prime (and, well, sure I know I was lucky) but that it would have been a different pic if I'd been a kid in the eighties, because the best I could have taken away from the era would have been Prince, well, you're still wrong First, people like Fats etc were very much the exception back in those days. I actually don't remember (thank Gawd) much of the music from that period; but I do remember it was shite. Second, the eighties weren't worse. Of course, my perspective on the eighties isn't that I was a teenager then; but my daughter was. I think Prince is worth taking with you as you grow. I never got any of his records but think you were possibly a bit too dismissive. Michael Jackson is rather less interesting, but still I can see why people would hve fond feelings towards his stuff a quarter century later. But you forgot (YOU FORGOT!!!!) RICK MOTHERFUCKIN' JAMES!!!!! Now, if I'd been a teenager then - and I was in my forties and he still got through - that would be the stuff to take into the future as an honoured and well loved piece of ones past. Third, and this is a more important difference maybe, in my day, Fats & co brought a new kind of paradigm to me (and the rest of us). There was no one (at least, not if you were living in England, or outside the ghetto, for that matter) before them. In the eighties, people like Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder were still powerful forces in popular music; still capable of forming a nucleus around which a person's taste could be formed and develop; not, as you seem to suggest, fit for the trashcan. MG

Well, speaking personally, I don't think that's necessarily wrong. What he actually said was, What he DIDN'T say, which you seem to have got out of the statement, was that whatever you dug at 13 would be ALL you'd dig for the rest of your life. Of course, you move on. But I still like to listen to Fats Domino, whom I first heard in 1956, when I was twelve. Just as I still feel fondly about the first girl I kissed (&etc) soon afterwards. And I bet you do, too. MG