The Magnificent Goldberg

Johnny Dodds - Clarinet wobble - Quadromania - discs 1-4 MG

Yes. MG

how the fuck so, Guy & respectfully, how well do you really know the history of the American record biz? we can name a handful of exceptions-- Dylan's evolution on Columbia, the Ramones on Sire (which had been indie)... & what else? distribution deals do NOT count!!! Prince? fine, keep going. (& don't tell me Duke on Victor or any such hogwash... the assimilation of the record biz into greater pop cult machine is the worst godamn thing that ever happened, then & now. edc knows it, you should know it too. MG's original statement (which you deleted) said: This is quite clearly false. As you stated yourself, Dylan on Columbia and Duke on Victor (and Columbia) are major exceptions. Sticking to jazz, two of the most important jazz innovators in the past half century (perhaps THE MOST IMPORTANT) did much of their most important work for major labels -- John Coltrane on Impulse!, Miles Davis on Columbia. I'm sure we can come up with other, less significant innovative recordings by other artists for major labels. (Was Decca a major label when they recorded the Basie band?) If we're going to talk about rock, besides Dylan (already mentioned) we have the Byrds, the Beach Boys, Santana, the Band, the Velvet Underground, and Frank Zappa. I'm sure there are other examples. Guy Impulse wasn't a major label. In the sixties, the criterion for major label status was that the firm had to own its own distribution network. ABC didn't. I'm not an expert on Davis. The story I heard was that Columbia did Prestige's manufacturing and the boss of the pressing plant told his boss about how many Miles Davis records he was manufacturing, so Columbia hired him. Sounds to me like Prestige did the legwork, Columbia took over a ready made star. Prior to WWII it's quite difficult to tell which were the major labels. From 1926 to 1938, for example, Columbia clearly wasn't. It went bust in 1926, after nearly 2 decades of financial problems during which it had continually had to sell off bits to keep going. It was then acquired by its former UK subsidiary, then sold to an engineering firm called Grisby-Gronow or something like that, then sold to ARC, who closed it down in 1934. It wasn't reopened until CBS bought ARC in 1938, shut down Brunswick and Vocalion and restarted Columbia and OkeH. Nor am I an expert on rock. However, Zappa (and Velvet Underground?) started up on Verve. As for ABC, MGM, the owner of Verve, wasn't a major. Not sure how innovative these other bands you refer to were but in any case, we're talking about black music here. MG

7th cavalry to the rescue! Where ya bin? MG

Yeah! MG

I definitely disagree with this statement. Guy Good. MG

I used to - back in 1960! My mother and I (I was 16) lived in a long block of flats on the first (US 2nd) floor. I was leaning out of my bedroom window one day, playing MJQ real loud, as one does, when this USAF guy, from farther along the block, walked past and noticed. I'd see him around but never spoken to him. He stopped and we got chatting and he invited me round to his flat to listen to some jazz. His brother was a jazz musician. He introduced me to a good bit of West Coast Jazz and Chris Connor (and let me read his Playboys, which was nice). I introduced him to the Ray Charles band. He was Dave Mandel. MG

Ah yes - I missed that one when I looked. MG

I don't think this is true. Just look at rap. It's been around for almost 30 years now and has been mainstream for at least 20 years. And yet that's what young kids, black and white but especially black, tend to listen to. I have a strong feeling that the control that the major record companies have been able to exercise over what's played and what's therefore popular, the expansion or increased intensity of which is a feature of the last couple of decades may have a lot to do with why popular music of all kinds seems to be standing still. Innovation has always come from indies, at least in America. MG

I think there's something in this, too. MG

Fabian George Bernard Shaw Eliza Doolittle

I think that's true. But Soul Jazz has kept up - even into the eighties and the beginning of the development of Smooth Jazz, which equated to the Anita Baker/Sade etc school of Smooth Soul. What seemed to happen mainly in the seventies was the live venues going. MG

I believe Houston Person has a very big collection, too. I couldn't get the link about this guy's collection, even after going down to make a cup of tea - is it duff or does it take a week to download? MG

I think "straight-ahead" jazz and African American popular music have been drifting apart since at least the late 60s. It's not the "fault" of hip hop. Guy I think that's right, though I'd put the crunch date in the mid-seventies. The main venue for jazz that formed a part of black popular music were the organ rooms. These died out during the seventies. I think there are three important factors. 1 Blaxploitation films. In the late '60s/early '70s, I understand that the only cinema audience that was growing was the black audience. It's not clear which was cause and which was effect, but once started ("In the heat of the night"?) a feedback loop developed. This was one big lot of competition for black entertainment spending. 2 Disco. It seems clear that the development of discos drove a lot of organ rooms out of business. Bob Porter has also mentioned (sleeve note to "The scorpion") that, in Newark, the organ rooms were closed by a new Mayor on account of drugs. This may have been something that happened across the US. More competition for limited spending. 3 Suburban housing. The Civil Rights movement is said to have made it easier for at least the more prosperous to get out of the ghetto. Out in the suburbs, other venues were available. Removing the most prosperous people from the immediate vicinity of the organ rooms had a disproportionate spending effect. MG

Many happy returns! MG

And MANY MANY MANY more! MG

I think there were some from before 1964. My "Elder Don" has an inner sleeve that has, as its most recent issue, 4112 "Go". That issued in 1962, I think. MG

MG

I think there's a thread somewhere here, or on AAJ, for hangover cures. MG

Same here. I feel the same way about Davis Cup. I'm with you here. I've always found Davis Cup to be an amazing listen. I'm very much looking forward to the Baby Face and Thad Jones. On another note, I just stumbled across this site and I look forward to talking jazz with all of you Hi! AND ANOTHER FREDDIE ROACH FAN TOUCHES DOWN!!!! MG

Maceo Parker Rev Maceo Woods Big Maceo

Glad to see you've got that at last. It wasn't from Bert, then? MG

Cleavon Little Booker Little Malcolm X

Skylark? MG

George Freeman Johnny Griffin Joe Morris