Rooster_Ties

What has this thread come to???

Well, I for one think what CNN and their laywers are doing to this poor guy... SUCKS!!!!!! ( )

Yes, a good idea for a thread. Hey, wasn't there another thread where everybody was too lazy to do whatever??? I'd do a search myself, and post a link to it here, but... ...well, you know.

Love the title of this thread.... "Fake story..., blown out of proportion"

And see the original page HERE Urban Legends and Folklore weighs in on the topic, and HERE is what the guy who wrote it now has to say...

Me too!!!

Speaking as someone who has railed against Wynton (especially), and a little against Burns too, somewhat (though his crime was not premeditated), I thing it would be good for everyone to remember a couple things... Wynton and Burns are neither as bad (or 'evil') as some people make them out to be (which even I have done on occasion, with Wynton anyway), nor are they as good as some others (and Wynton himself, especially) make them out to be. From what I saw of it, the Burns documentary was relatively good (or at worst "decent"), by and large. I didn't love it, and I could probably go on for pages about things that I personally found lacking in it. Still, warts and all, it was probably a good thing for jazz (especially in the long run), and a reasonable attempt to explain the music to a mainstream audience. Was the glass half full, or half empty??? ( And yes, I fully admit that I used the word "crime" in the first paragraph of this post, implying that what Wynton has done to jazz is "a crime". No, I really don't mean that literally. He's done some good things, and some bad things. But what I find most disappointing is that so much of what he's done for jazz (and/or against jazz), has been in service to promoting Wynton over promoting jazz. Not a crime against humanity, but something I certainly find lacking in the man. )

Two events - took a "jazz appreciation" class in college for the "easy A" - the professor (Scott Garlock) was a nice enough guy (for the most part), and reguardless, it was hard not to at least listen. I also had a part-time Disk Jockey gig at a top-40 radio station while I was in college -- and after 20 to 30 hours (per week) of forced exposure to "top-40" music from 1990-92, I got sick of 'pop' music in general, and also the "classic rock" that had previously been the focus of my musical interests. The combination of these two events hooked me. So, walking into my room in college, you were either going to hear Disintegration (by The Cure) - or - Kind of Blue and Nefertiti Rooster T.

There might have been a very small few Sun Ra albums in this category (all from the very late 70's), but they represent such a small percentage of his total output - I think these nearly qualify for this thread (in terms of a direction hinted at, but not really taken). (From 1978 and 1980, respectively) - Both of these albums feature electric bass (at least on several cuts each), and sometimes even an electric guitar (credited to one "Disco Kid" - ???) - and the overall vibe is decidedly more 'goovy' than anything Ra had recorded before, or after. One other Sun Ra release also fits this mold - a very obscure Saturn record called "On Jupiter" (from 1978) - best known for the all-out funky "U.F.O." (and I do mean funky).

This Lee Morgan album (his last studio date as leader), is quite unique in the Lee Morgan catalog. Would that were not the case, but alas - it was the beginning of a new direction for Lee – and sadly, one not fulfilled.

I finally found my CDR's of "Dance with Death" and the 2nd LP of "One for One" (the one that isn't on the Mosaic), and I gave them both a listen tonight. Which leads me to a prior post I made in this very thread... I am NOT going crazy!!!! Or at least you can't prove it by my thinking I had heard the tune "Cascade" (track #6 off "Passing Ships") from SOMEWHERE before. "Cascade" is the EXACT SAME TUNE as the last tune on SIDE 1 of the 2nd LP of "One For One". I can't tell what the name of the tune is - in it's version from "One For One" (or at least I can't be 100% sure of the name), but the line-up is: Andrew Hill p, Charles Tolliver tp, Pat Patrick as/fl/bs, Bennie Maupin fl/ts/bass cl, Ron Carter b, Ben Riley d (recorded in January of 1970 -- which is after the sessions for "Passing Ships"). I've only got a 'burn' of that 2nd LP of "One For One" - so I can't totally verify the name of the tune (and all my on-line resources to check on this are ambiguous, or at least there's conflicting info between different on-line discographies). But damn it, it is the EXACT same tune, and a mighty darn similar arrangement too!!!! - down to the riffs from various horns during (over) a couple of the solos. Man, I KNEW I knew that tune from somewhere!!!!!! ( And not a word about this in the liner-notes to "Passing Ships". For shame!!! ) PS: Come to think of it, I'm not even 100% sure it's the last tune on side 1 of the "One for One" 2nd LP. It's the last tune before any of the tunes with the string quartet -- which I'm assuming is where the break between side 1 and side 2 is. But I guess it could be the first tune on side 2. In any case, it's the 3rd tune when I listen to my burn of "One for One". In any case, can somebody that owns both "Passing Ships" and the actual "One for One" LP set verify the tune name, and also how darn similar they are??? Thanks!!!

Thanks for the "Super Andrew!!!!" Avatar, AB!!!!!!!

RAREST OF THE RARE!!! - $199.99 minimum bid required "Here for your delectation is the RAREST OF THE RARE!!! This album is not listed on any record site I know of..."

Oct. 31st Hey AfricaBrass!! - I just sent you a PM.

Yup!!! "The above painting, "Sun-treader—Portrait of Carl Ruggles" by Thomas Hart Benton, appears on the album cover of Michael Tilson Thomas's recording of Ruggles's complete works." More about Carl Ruggles.

Thanks!!! Listening to it now. FYI, the review is about 7 minutes long, and includes a bunch of musical samples. Well worth checking out for those who haven't heard "Passing Ships" yet.

There are definitely a few specific cuts on "Other Aspects" that are TOTALLY unlike anything else in the entire Dolphy catalog. The tune "Jim Crow" in particular ( - when I'm in the right mood), along with "Improvisations and Tukras" to a lesser extent.

I've never heard this (save for one time, borrowing it from a friend many, many years ago). But from what little I remember, and what I've read here and elsewhere -- is "Barcelona" possibly as "unlike anything else" and "different" a release as you're likely to find in the entire Joe Henderosn catalog???

1) This session is really 'off the hook'. I don't think I've ever even gotten close to 'getting' this date, but I do dig trying!!!! Very intense music, from all parties. Probably the one session from the Hill Mosaic that I've listened to the least (after 'Smokestack'). 2) A big shout-out and thanks - to Brandon - for staring another Andrew Hill thread. As many of you know, I really don't think we can have nearly enough of them on this board.

I'm thinking primarily about Jazz in this thread, although this very same discussion could be had with Rock music too -- and maybe that's appropriate here too, perhaps. (The parallels are valid, I think.) ===== I was thinking today about Miles' "On the Corner" - and how it really wasn't like anything ever before, or really anything ever since -- in the entire Miles catalog. And how it took years (probably 20 years) for most people to catch up with that LP (if they ever did catch up with it at all). And Ornette's "Skies of America" (the one with an orchestra) was a little like this too. Probably the most "different" title in Ornette's entire catalog - and one that many people scratch their heads over to this very day. ===== So, what other "radical" albums stand out almost like islands in the middle of the sea, as compared to the rest of the artist's catalog??? And in particular, this would be most interesting to discuss for artists who really broke new ground with one or more of their other releases --- on the theory that these "islands in the sea" possibly represented new ground that was otherwise never really explored again - after that one release. (Miles surely could have gone farther down that "On the Corner" road, but didn't (for various reasons, yeah - not all of them artistic)

Haven't heard it in a while, so I'm gonna qutoe the AMG review - which seems pretty much like I remember it... Two stars is about right. It's certainly no "Superfly". Still, I do like it every now and then. It has been released on CD, by the way (in 1996, on the label "One Way").

Good post, Jim. I totally hear what you're talking about with Hill not being that aggressive and/or assertive a leader. He seemed like that in person, as well (if that means anything). And what you said about Hill not always having the best musicians with him, also jives with some audio evidence I've heard. There's a tape making the rounds from the late 80's or early 90's, with Hill as a quartet (piano trio plus one reed player). I won't mention any names (cuz who knows who's really guilty), but man - the band just cannot make it happen. (Or at least that's what my ears told me, from the one listen I've had to the tape.) Now whether that's from lack of good charts (which is entirely possible, and believable), or just a bad night, or players that just didn't get Hill's thing -- or what -- I really don't know. (Possibly a combination of all three.) One interesting thing about the tape, though, is that Hill revisits mostly the stronger tunes from his catalog, including -- of all tunes -- "Grass Roots"!! (Meaning he plays the title track from "Grass Roots".) It's a somewhat unremarkable performance (like the whole tape is, to some extent), but I never thought I'd live to hear Andrew Hill revisiting any material from the album "Grass Roots", in a late 80's or early 90's context. Pretty interesting, actually - though one is definitely left with the impression that Hill was playing the most 'tuneful' tunes in his book, simply because that's all the band could (attempt) to handle. I've only heard the tape once, and it also suffers from some sound quality issues (so the whole deck is stacked against it), but perhaps it will grow on me a touch with repeated listens. That's the thing about Hill's music (unlike Miles, or Joe Henderson, or Woody Shaw, or Charles Tolliver, or most jazz players). Unlike most guys, nearly every Hill tune you only get to hear in one version. With Joe and Miles and the rest - you often get to hear some of their material in both their original 'studio' versions, AND you frequently get to hear their strongest tunes again, later in their careers - on live releases, and such. Or (in the case of Miles), you also get to hear others revisit his material, even (lately) some of his late 60's and early 70's output. But with Hill, you've almost always only got one version of each tune, and that's it. Hill's tunes aren't covered all that often (try 'almost never'), and Hill has never gone back to older material (or at least his live performances of older material never see the light of day) I think hearing his material, in multiple contexts (somehow) - would only help people become more familiar with some of his work, and maybe his concepts.

For what it is, I do actually like it. No, it's no where near as good and/or even quite as 'interesting' as most of Herbie's other output from around the same time period. Still, I do think it has some tracks that really do work, in their own way. I generally gotta have my "cheezy 70's soundtrack ears" on to really get into it.

Edit: Yeah, technically this isn't a "Blaxploitation" movie. But man, this soundtrack totally has that early 70's "funky movie soundtrack" vibe - you dig!!

Link: http://www.japander.com Full archives here: http://www.japander.com/japander/list.htm