Rooster_Ties

I'm thinking primarily about Jazz in this thread, although this very same discussion could be had with Rock music too -- and maybe that's appropriate here too, perhaps. (The parallels are valid, I think.) ===== I was thinking today about Miles' "On the Corner" - and how it really wasn't like anything ever before, or really anything ever since -- in the entire Miles catalog. And how it took years (probably 20 years) for most people to catch up with that LP (if they ever did catch up with it at all). And Ornette's "Skies of America" (the one with an orchestra) was a little like this too. Probably the most "different" title in Ornette's entire catalog - and one that many people scratch their heads over to this very day. ===== So, what other "radical" albums stand out almost like islands in the middle of the sea, as compared to the rest of the artist's catalog??? And in particular, this would be most interesting to discuss for artists who really broke new ground with one or more of their other releases --- on the theory that these "islands in the sea" possibly represented new ground that was otherwise never really explored again - after that one release. (Miles surely could have gone farther down that "On the Corner" road, but didn't (for various reasons, yeah - not all of them artistic)

Haven't heard it in a while, so I'm gonna qutoe the AMG review - which seems pretty much like I remember it... Two stars is about right. It's certainly no "Superfly". Still, I do like it every now and then. It has been released on CD, by the way (in 1996, on the label "One Way").

Good post, Jim. I totally hear what you're talking about with Hill not being that aggressive and/or assertive a leader. He seemed like that in person, as well (if that means anything). And what you said about Hill not always having the best musicians with him, also jives with some audio evidence I've heard. There's a tape making the rounds from the late 80's or early 90's, with Hill as a quartet (piano trio plus one reed player). I won't mention any names (cuz who knows who's really guilty), but man - the band just cannot make it happen. (Or at least that's what my ears told me, from the one listen I've had to the tape.) Now whether that's from lack of good charts (which is entirely possible, and believable), or just a bad night, or players that just didn't get Hill's thing -- or what -- I really don't know. (Possibly a combination of all three.) One interesting thing about the tape, though, is that Hill revisits mostly the stronger tunes from his catalog, including -- of all tunes -- "Grass Roots"!! (Meaning he plays the title track from "Grass Roots".) It's a somewhat unremarkable performance (like the whole tape is, to some extent), but I never thought I'd live to hear Andrew Hill revisiting any material from the album "Grass Roots", in a late 80's or early 90's context. Pretty interesting, actually - though one is definitely left with the impression that Hill was playing the most 'tuneful' tunes in his book, simply because that's all the band could (attempt) to handle. I've only heard the tape once, and it also suffers from some sound quality issues (so the whole deck is stacked against it), but perhaps it will grow on me a touch with repeated listens. That's the thing about Hill's music (unlike Miles, or Joe Henderson, or Woody Shaw, or Charles Tolliver, or most jazz players). Unlike most guys, nearly every Hill tune you only get to hear in one version. With Joe and Miles and the rest - you often get to hear some of their material in both their original 'studio' versions, AND you frequently get to hear their strongest tunes again, later in their careers - on live releases, and such. Or (in the case of Miles), you also get to hear others revisit his material, even (lately) some of his late 60's and early 70's output. But with Hill, you've almost always only got one version of each tune, and that's it. Hill's tunes aren't covered all that often (try 'almost never'), and Hill has never gone back to older material (or at least his live performances of older material never see the light of day) I think hearing his material, in multiple contexts (somehow) - would only help people become more familiar with some of his work, and maybe his concepts.

For what it is, I do actually like it. No, it's no where near as good and/or even quite as 'interesting' as most of Herbie's other output from around the same time period. Still, I do think it has some tracks that really do work, in their own way. I generally gotta have my "cheezy 70's soundtrack ears" on to really get into it.

Edit: Yeah, technically this isn't a "Blaxploitation" movie. But man, this soundtrack totally has that early 70's "funky movie soundtrack" vibe - you dig!!

Link: http://www.japander.com Full archives here: http://www.japander.com/japander/list.htm

On the one hand, I also thought it was a very cool idea. But I've since done some searches for a couple books, where I pretty much knew what the title was (or what a few words of the title were), and I had a devil of a time finding the books - since I was getting SO many hits on books with those same works in the body of the book itself. Great idea, but they sure do need to do some fine-tuning with their new search engine. Or at the very least, make it an option to either search for key words within book content (and not just titles), AND give users the ability to search for keywords in the titles of books only. (In other words, some way to turn off the new feature.

I totally missed it too, so don't feel so bad. So, at least one person here (besides myself) really likes hard cider (Dicken's - or otherwise ). So fess up - who else (besides me!!) voted for the first choice??? And at least a couple people here like the stuff pretty well (it seems), despite their liking beer better. Any brands to suggest??

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Anybody got any more love for TALES OF CAPTAIN BLACK??? I had an extra copy of this on CD up until last week, but I just gave it to Free For All ---> so I expect a listening-report from him sometime (you dig FFA!! ) But from anybody else too. Sangry?? It's my favorite "Ornette" from the whole 70's, and I can't get enough of it. And why's that?? I'll give it a spin this week, and try ta lecha know!!

You know, if you go to the site - and read about four or five verisons of the page -- it all starts to make some sense, actually.

Can anybody find it on-line for less than $50?? That appears to be about the cheapest I can find, so far. Thanks!!

(And up for more commentary and/or votes.)

It'll be nearly a year before we ever see "Seven Steps to Berlin" released. The "Jack Johnson" box came out at the very end of September of 2003. I'd be shocked if we saw the "Seven Steps to Berlin" box any time before Aug. 1st. Just a hunch.

Oh my god - your Star Trek cat... ...turned into Abe Vigoda!!!!

Like Jim said, it's all good. (Well, except maybe for "Naked Lunch".) But seriously, of those that have been released on CD (I haven't heard any of the vinyl-only releases), all of them are pretty darn good. Or rather, not a rotten apple in the whole bunch. When's he gonna record and release some more????????????? The world wants more Ornette.

Up, since this will be happening within the next couple hours...

Thanks couw. It's one of those books I'd love to read, but probably not enough to pay that much to own. I'll see if there's any way I can interlibrary-loan it through the U.S. public library system. (A long-shot, but who knows - maybe.)

Link: The Postmodernism Generator Try it and see!!! Be sure to hit the refresh button a few times after the page comes up. It's all computer generated!!! (There are live 'links' in the above quote, which are at the bottom of the page that I provided a link to above.)

Arthur Foote: A Musician in the Frame of Time and Place - by Nicholas E. Tawa Product Details: ISBN: 081083295X Format: Hardcover, 368pp Pub. Date: September 1997 Publisher: Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, Inc. Series: Composers of North America Series Barnes and Noble is the only site I've been able to find this on (so far), but they want $62 for it (ouch!!) - or $58.80 for a used copy (also ouch!!). Anybody got any good leads for finding this book about classical composer Arthur Foote, at a more reasonable price??? (Yeah, yeah - I'd love to find one for $25, but I'd at least be happier if I found one for $40 or so.) Who is Arthur Foote - you ask??? Good on-line bio here: CLICK

A great picture from this site... Carmell with Charles Matthews in Kansas City, 1960 For Eric and Free For All (and anyone else who happens to be from Kansas City, or familiar with 18th & Vine), the small/short building immediately behind the mouthpiece of Carmell's trumpet -- is the only building still standing in that block. The photo was taken looking towards downtown (to the north-west of 18th & Vine), and that building was (as I undersand it) a barbershop - for years. I've read or heard that there was a pool-table in the back room of the barber-shop, and that musicians (including Charlie Parker) would often go there for chili and pool, after all the clubs wound down, around 4am most nights. Or at least that's what I've heard. Lots of other GREAT pictures of Carmell on the site: HERE

Yes, "Song X" is a good one too. Frankly, keep your eyes out for it 'used'. I don't see them 'used' in every store, but they aren't that hard to find either. (It's not like most of your typical Pat Metheny fans really like "Song X" very much. Hell, I LOVE Ornette, and I have to admit that I really have to be in the right mood for "Song X" --- though I totally love it when I am in that mood.)

I think the Nat Adderely thing has been released on CD, although I don't own it myself. Think I've seen it on-line, on CD though. I'm guessing probably the vast majority of Joe's "not yet on CD" material (mostly as a sideman) is probably from the 70's. I started this thread, by the way, because I recently stumbled on the Blue Mitchell 'Mainstream' LP at a friend's house (a guy with 10,000 LP's in his basement - unfortunately he lives 600 miles from me now), and I wasn't even aware that Joe was on this. And it made me wonder what other Joe was out there that I had never even heard of before.

I like "Body Meta", actually quite a bit. (I like it better than "Virgin Beauty" - not that they are an exact comparison.) But I really mean to say that "Body Meta" is NOT at the bottom of my list of Ornette discs, in my book. Frankly, the only Ornette CD (from his post-1975 years) that I would avoid is the "Naked Lunch" soundtrack. Didn't do much for me, and I'm normally a big fan of "third-stream" stuff like it sorta tried to be. Everything else is worth getting, though some are not worth spending lots of money for (meaning they're all good, but not all 'essential'.)