Larry Kart

I like Newsome, and I can't say that of many players of the fish horn.

My two cents worth: !) Wagner was a great composer -- duh. 2) Wagner not only was a dyed-in-the-wool anti-Semite but a crucial (as in highly influential) intellectual pioneer in what has been called Revolutionary anti-Semitism -- i.e. the movement that believed that the intellectual-spiritual fulfillment of the German people could be achieved only if and when all traces of Jewish influence, up and including the Jews themselves, were eliminated from German life. (Yes, I know about Wagner's friendly relations with certain Jewish conductors who were among his acolytes -- Wagner, like many people, was for himself on a selective basis, in addition to being passionately for and against other things). 3) Whether Wagner is played in Israel matters to whom and why? If I'm an Israeli music lover who wants to hear some Wagner -- OK; I play my records, turn on the radio, advocate that his music be played in public in Israel. On the other hand, the linkage between Wagner's music and Nazism is not incidental from either direction -- Wagner's views having crucially fueled Nazi ideology, the Nazi regime having used Wagner's music as a virtual theme song -- and I'm certainly not going to tell any Israeli with a long, accurate memory that he/she should just grow up and forget about all that. Further, this whole fuss seems to me like political arm-twisting of one sort or another. As for Alex Ross' final citation of Theodore Herzl as something of a Wagnerian, as though that settles anything -- I've always known that Ross was a toad, but this confirms it..

I agree - worst call EVER!! Burt far from the only really bad call in that game. I'm thinking in particular of the one where a Packer DB was called for pass interference on Sidney Rice when the only possible call, if one was to be made, was that Rice interfered with him. Those officials are way out of their league, and because they know it, they're getting worse and worse.

Danko is still a fine pianist IMO (soloist and accompanist) and a fine bandleader-composer, too --that quartet he had/has with Rich Perry has made many excellent recordings. I note FWIW that the last entry on the Danko Scientology stuff that Moms links to dates from 1991.

Wow. As they say 'that's what makes horse racing'. I couldn't disagree more, Larry. I love almost everything Carmen did, any period. She just ripened like a wine, and played great piano for herself, as did Shirley Horn. I think those 2 may have been the best self-accompanying singers I've heard---especially Shirley. My favorite Carmen is Bittersweet, Sounds of Silence (I think it's called) and Portrait of Carmen. I think the last 2 are on Atlantic. Spring Can Really Hang You Up the Most on Bittersweet is my favorite version of a favorite song. She sings another Tommy Wolfe song, I'm Always Drunk in San Francisco, on one of the Atlantics, I forget which. The reason I love Carmen so much, besides her phenomenal musicianship, is an attitude she projects, or at least that I get, of not self-pity, but sort of 'screw the world or what anyone thinks. I'm telling you how I feel about this.' And there's a sardonic (if that's the right word) laughing-at-life and the stupidity of many people. She sounds like a really gifted survivor, who wants to 'talk' to whoever has ears to listen. Maybe this is in my head. She also can be unbelievably tender. Anyway, the combination of her attitude and amazing skills as a musician make her one of my all-time favorites. I wanted to mention IMO a great singer I've been in contact with, Shawnn Monteiro. She reminds me of (later) Carmen but definitely has her own great style and sound also. I think she's one of the best in the world today FWIW. I bring her up b/c last we spoke she was recording a Carmen McCrae tribute---speaking of tributes. It's probably in the can by now. So Sarah got one and now Carmen has one. Good news to me. Any relation to accordionist Eddie Monteiro?

Don't recall that Konitz, in the period when this might have been an issue (if it ever was), ever had a working band that wasn't very good. If it was Harold Danko that Katz had in mind (if indeed Danko was a Scientologist), Danko IMO was a better accompanist and soloist than Katz.

Well, I knew that the word "string" was involved somehow. BTW, if you buy "String Fever," get this one: http://www.amazon.com/String-Fever-Chuck-Wayne/dp/B00005B7RT with good sound and valuable alternate takes (especially for Don Joseph fans). IIRC, the Spaniards issued the album (perhaps a needle drop?) without any alternates.

I agree that Piano and Pen is by no means a high energy session. However, for me there is a tasty low key elegance that make it quite enjoyable. My recollection is that the Katz Trio date on Reservoir is a more swinging session. As Peter said these are not high energy sessions (recorded in December 1958 and January 1959), but to my ears the guitarists, Chuck Wayne on the former session and Jimmy Raney on the latter, are worth the price of admission alone. I'm one of the world's top Raney fans and like Wayne, too, but IMO Raney fares much better on his own ABC-Paramount albums from a few years earlier, as does Wayne on his marvelous VIK album with Don Joseph and a pocket big band, "Strings Attached." Again, Atlantic engineering tended to be of the ingrown-toenail school, and that, combined with the less than electrifying team of Kay and Joe Benjamin, cast something of a pall over the results. Still, I'm glad I have "Piano and Pen" because Katz-led dates are rare.

I like Dick Katz, but IIRC (and IMO of course) "Piano and Pen" is a rather soporific album, thanks in large part to Connie Kay and the dull Atlantic recording job.

I'm in. Sounds great.

I picked up that one, too, Dr J and like it a good deal. Scott Colley is excellent behind her, as is the whole band.

Whoa

As attractive as many of the bands/dates Rumsey nominally led, the basic problem with most of them to some degree IIRC is that Rumsey was not a very talented/swinging bass player but something of a plodder. They were his gigs, though. To stay within the same general bag of players, say, Monty Budwig would have made a considerable difference.

I will eventually respond to the responses. In the meantime....maybe the "moderator" can explain this particular poster (who has to be the most hostile person on here. Anger Management issues don't even come close describing his problems. He comes off as completely unhinged a good deal of the time.) is even still allowed to be a member? I have been threatened with banning, had posts deleted by the "moderator"....but someone who regularly insults and/or threatens other members for who knows how many years now is somehow still around. I guess there is a rule in the famous rules that keep being mentioned to me that makes it okay for him to do it. The irony is his post describes him exactly....well except his insults/threats are on the elementary/junior high level. I have lost track of how many of posts I have come across which are like this....when he only responds in threads to insult and/or threaten other members. But let's get all over those duplicate threads! The poster has been warned. I really can't tell at this point if you're being serious or attempting humor with that response to my post....and taking into account at this point I can quote countless posts that this member would have been banned pretty much every other place....WTF? knows how many years ago....it could have been from 2003 from all I know....it just got depressing after several searches with him telling people to fuck off, assholes, or wanting them dead....but here somehow he miraculously is still a member....and best I can make out....you were "moderating" for just the time I checked. Even on "the other" board that doesn't have a "moderator"....on which I made clear there should be one (and I also said on here is a Dead BB Walking)...and it took 14-years to finally ban the "troll"....this member wouldn't have lasted. God help anyone that starts a duplicate thread....but tell people to die, assholes, little shits, fuck off....that's all good on your watch, or get's a warning. I was threatened with banning for just using another members job (which he used several times previously as part of his enabling argument.)....you the "moderator" even mocked me when I tried to explain why that one subject bothered me....I also had a post deleted that had 11-14+-years of post on two boards to support. I can't even imagine what you would have done if I posted a single one of those posts this member posted that I can quote on your watch. You want to tell me about this board's rules again? But let's get all over those duplicate threads! I was quite serious; that poster has been warned, by me. But it's nice (irony alert now) that you have been conducting such thorough research into the past behavior of posters whose behavior annoys you ("...at this point I can quote countless posts that [would have led to] this member being banned pretty much every other place"...). And I'm the wannabe policeman here? P.S. You were threatened with being banned because you were behaving like a troll -- saying things that seemed IMO (and I'm not only no novice in this aspect of internet behavior, but this also was not solely my opinion in this instance) to be said not so much to make a point in an admittedly contentious discussion but essentially to provoke that particular poster (i.e. the school teacher), whom you had made clear you had gripe against from your dustups with him on another board. The trollish aspect of this would be, in case you don't already know, that if trolls can provoke someone into a bit of sufficiently angry/bad behavior, the provoked one may get punished and the troll, pleading innocence, can skate free. But onward and upward with your research.

I will eventually respond to the responses. In the meantime....maybe the "moderator" can explain this particular poster (who has to be the most hostile person on here. Anger Management issues don't even come close describing his problems. He comes off as completely unhinged a good deal of the time.) is even still allowed to be a member? I have been threatened with banning, had posts deleted by the "moderator"....but someone who regularly insults and/or threatens other members for who knows how many years now is somehow still around. I guess there is a rule in the famous rules that keep being mentioned to me that makes it okay for him to do it. The irony is his post describes him exactly....well except his insults/threats are on the elementary/junior high level. I have lost track of how many of posts I have come across which are like this....when he only responds in threads to insult and/or threaten other members. But let's get all over those duplicate threads! The poster has been warned.

Don't recall any palm action. It was a private party, no play on words intended. Quite a band -- Patterson, Von, guitarist Sam Thomas, and Wilbur Campbell. Von was incredible. I think the middle-aged couple the party was for (probably their anniversary) were friends of his.

I'm the "guy" involved here. I did listen to your complaint seriously but didn't see any harm in what was done. I didn't fluff you off but just didn't agree with you about this matter. Aware that you were not satisfied with my response, I suggested that you complain to the two other parties around here to whom one can complain on the chance that they might see your complaint differently and give you the response you want. How is that being cavalier?

I'm the same way with pianists who pick their noses and then go and put their fingers right on the keyboard. Nasty. I think I've mentioned before that I once saw organist Don Patterson play a longish solo with his tongue, in a convincing imitation of cunnilingus. That was also the first time I hear Von Freeman play. Quite an afternoon.

But then you would have gotten bit by the fusion bug! No -- I meant when I was ten or twenty years older than I was when I went to college.

No, it's not the biggest deal, but in post #57 above I stated what I thought the disadvantages of duplicates threads were and what the advantages of not having duplicates threads were. So what might be the advantages of duplicate threads? I'm willing to listen. As for the the spinster school marm thing, while the situations may not be quite parallel, I recall an ill-fated college course I took in Homeric Greek, which was taught by one of the world's chief experts on the subject. Our first task was to memorize the 24-letter Greek alphabet, from Alpha to Omicron. Something of a child of the 1960s, or perhaps just a lazy schmuck, I failed to do this by the second day of class, as was the case for a good many others. When the teacher realized this, he pointed out that until we knew the alphabet we would be greatly handicapped in looking up anything in the Greek-to-English side of our Greek-English dictionaries, and that as novices we would be looking up things there a whole lot. Errr... The Greek alphabet runs from alpha to omega: I said the course was ill-fated -- especially for me. I should have dropped it, just got a bad grade, learned much less than I could have. Wish I could have gone to college ten years later in life than I did, maybe twenty years later.

I thought his Rodgers and Hammerstein solo album was very good, especially liked the way he approached the pieces -- with insight and understanding, didn't try to jazz them up. His way with Monk did nothing for me, though. One of his trio records, "Dancing in the Dark," all standards, appealed to me for the same reason the R&H album did -- the subtle, insightful conceptual approach to the pieces themselves. He's not really a "blowing" musician IMO, perhaps too much of a neatnik, but genuine and thoughtful FWTW. Brief encounters with his more ambitious, pretentious projects were off-putting.

No, it's not the biggest deal, but in post #57 above I stated what I thought the disadvantages of duplicates threads were and what the advantages of not having duplicates threads were. So what might be the advantages of duplicate threads? I'm willing to listen. As for the the spinster school marm thing, while the situations may not be quite parallel, I recall an ill-fated college course I took in Homeric Greek, which was taught by one of the world's chief experts on the subject. Our first task was to memorize the 24-letter Greek alphabet, from Alpha to Omicron. Something of a child of the 1960s, or perhaps just a lazy schmuck, I failed to do this by the second day of class, as was the case for a good many others. When the teacher realized this, he pointed out that until we knew the alphabet we would be greatly handicapped in looking up anything in the Greek-to-English side of our Greek-English dictionaries, and that as novices we would be looking up things there a whole lot.

VERY good. I'll admit to never having been knocked out by several in-person performances by this band, but did they ever get it together in the studio.

There are two moderators, myself and Son-of-a-Weizen, with Jim of course waiting in the wings if needed. There used to be three moderators. I would be happy to slough off the role myself, but, and I mean no irony here, I think somebody's got to do it, and I was asked and accepted. Why is "no duplicate threads" stupid? Not the most important things there is, but "stupid"? It helps to keep things working more efficiently, by keeping all the comments on a particular topic in one place where all who are interested can find it and, it goes without saying, see what all other interested parties have said.

The link is to a JSP set, which is a European public-domain release, not a bootleg - even though JSP are often stealing other labels' masterings.